Humberto:                      So this is Humberto Carrasco speaking.  I would like to welcome all the participants in this call and thank (inaudible) for apologizing.  He will not be able to participate so I would like to welcome you all and the staff members, Gisella as well.


Gisella:                          Sorry, Sabrina (ph), Gisella is here.  We have published a new report or a new draft dated December.


Veronica:                       Gisella, this is Veronica, the interpreter.  Is there anything that you would like to say?


Gisella:                          Sorry no; this is Gisella just to say if we are doing the roll call, if Humberto was ready to start?  Sorry.


Veronica:                       Okay, I will ask him that.             Gisella, could you kindly proceed with the roll call?


Gisella:                          Yes, thank you; this is Gisella with the transcript.  On today's LACRALO Translation Work Group on Thursday the 10th of January at 20 hundred UTC we had Humberto Carrasco and Jose Arce on the Spanish Channel and on the English channel we have Dev Anand Teelucksingh, apologies noted from Juan Manuel Rojas and from staff today we have Sylvia Vivanco on the Spanish channel and Gisella Gruber on the English channel and our interpreters today are Veronica and Sabrina.


                                    If I could also just please remind everyone to state their names when speaking for transcript purposes and also to allow the interpreters to identify the speaker on the other language channel.


                                    Thank you and over to you, Humberto, and also a very Happy New Year to everyone.  Thank you.


Humberto:                      This is Humberto speaking, thank you very much Gisella for your works and I wish you all a Happy New Year as well.


                                    So, as I was saying before, this week it was published a complete report of what we have been doing in this translation work, and this LACRALO Translation Working Group.


                                    We have some comments regarding this issue and I'll try to incorporate all the comments.  Of course, this idea is to work with those comments until Monday and I would like to say that Dev will draw the motion about the -- of the general assembly in Costa Rica.  And within the report the motions that are published are the ones related to the Rules of Procedure in English and Spanish.


                                    We also took into account some other comments.  We have completed the alternatives to solve some of the problems.  So I would like to know if the staff has any answers -- sorry, I think that Dev is on the call so I would like to ask Dev if he had had the possibility of meeting with the staff, with the IT staff, Information Technologies Staff, in order to know or to have more details about the issues.


Dev:                              Thank you, Humberto.


Humberto:                      Being detailed and if you would like to share that with us and--


Dev:                              Okay this is Dev --.


Humberto:                      I think there is a comment, oh the comment about my report so I would like to discuss that so, Dev, you have the floor for you to share with us your views.  On my part I have no other comments and before proceeding with questions, in case there are questions, I would like, Dev, if you could provide information about this issue.  Thank you very much.


Dev:                              Thank you, Humberto.  This is Dev Anand speaking.  Sorry for my -- apologies for being late.  I was on another conference call.  It was in fact still going on and I just left that one.


                                    I just caught the last must be 30 seconds of what you were saying.  With regards to the whether IT staff has been contacted, I have not directly contacted them as yet.  I do have a draft message and I guess I could share the draft with you, with all of you.  I'll place the link in the -- it is a very short message but let me post the link, my draft text for this.


                                    Just saying that we have completed our stuff that we were -- the LACRALO Translation Working Group was working on, namely the proposed text when a message was not translated and I was just simply going to ask for, well, an update on the IT staff side of things to be done, which was to stop translating the subject line, put in all the steps to reject an email for translation if it does not meet the format and with the auto response to the link to the guidelines that we have now, well, drafted that at least has now been put up, changing the -- correcting the problem of the source of the English to Spanish emails in the subject line.


                                    When an email is sent from English to Spanish, the Spanish that you don't see the original of the email so that helps --you know that's the problem with trying to search and find and filter, and regards also to the fourth problem, which was to translate the emails with the attachments not being carried over to translated emails.


                                    So it's a very short email.  I've already sent it out, yes and of course if anybody has any comments I should add to this of course we can hear it now.


                                    I do have some comments about the report but I guess I'll -- I think, Humberto, you're probably going to be going through the report at this point so I will stop for now.  That's it.


Humberto:                      This is Humberto speaking.  Dev, thank you very much for your summary and following the agenda, now we have the comments about the report.  So is there any comments or, Dev, if you have any comment you have the floor for you to make the comments that you need.


Dev:                              Okay thank you.  This is Dev Anand speaking.  Thanks, Humberto, for putting together the reports, which you posted the list earlier this week.  I do have two comments.  One, well regarding point three, which was dealt with the -- we discussed at previous translation working group called That in the Absence of a Formal Translated Document.


                                    And point three is, I'm sorry, point three is related to -- is the subject line of point three is delaying the translation of documents.  Okay and my comment was in fact well we had discussed in previous calls that in the absence of a formal translated documents of a policy out for comment, the LACRALO secretary can create a Wiki page and put the text of the policy out for comment in that Wiki page and then readers can then use the built-in translation tool of the Wiki to then translate the documents.


                                    As I posted the links to them, two links last time, and I think the consensus was was that, you know, it was good enough.  So perhaps this could be included in the report as such.  So that's my first comment.


                                    Second comment, this is regarding the point B, the different alternatives to solve the issue of attachments.  Again, my comment is really well this issue is this problem and the proposed solution is a technology issue.  It's not really a translation issue as such.  So the ICANN staff is aware of the issue and hopefully they will be able to really develop that solution that could be implemented by them and I think that's the way to go.


                                    And also I've said before, well, either we're relying on Cloud services and not having attachments is being addressed for historical purposes.  A link to an attachment to a Cloud service into a Dropbox, whatever, can disappear in the future you know because the user may have left LACRALO, the Cloud service may have gone out of business or whatever.  Whereas, attachments are preserved and in fact the opposite of when they are posted to the original list and it can be found in the mailing list archives.


                                    So that's my comment on those two issues.  I'll stop here for if anybody has anything to say about that.  That's it.  


Humberto:                      Thank you very much Dev.  This is Humberto speaking.  Jose, have you got any comment about the report if it is that you were able to read it?


Jose:                             This is Jose speaking.  Yes, Humberto, may I speak?  I have a comment.  This is Jose Arce speaking.  I have a comment, Humberto.


Humberto:                      Humberto speaking.  Okay, Jose, you have the floor.


Jose:                             This is Jose Arce speaking.  I would like to add something to point three regarding translation.  There was a comment on the Wiki related to the solution of translation problems but apart from that I would like to say that there are certain documents that need to be translated because they're going to be published for public comments.  So in that case we might be able to -- or we might need official translation because they're urgent documents and we need to make a difference between those documents, which are informative documents or documents just for information.


                                    If we can make this difference, well, we know that ICANN is implementing translation or language services but the language department cannot translate, officially translate, every single document that appears.  So I suggest that when we need an official document and, well, they are urgent documents and they need -- they should have a priority and when we are discussing just internal documents well, we might use the tools that we have on the Wiki.


                                    And in terms of the attachments, well there is a tool that we might use to upload these documents to the Cloud.  So it's just a matter of coming to an agreement and to inform the community which tool we are going to use.


                                    These are my comments.  That's all; thank you very much.


Humberto:                      This is Humberto speaking.  Thank you, Jose, for your comments.  Silvia Herlein Leite I don't know if you were able to listen to all the comments and if you were able to read the report.  We had some comments by Dev and Jose so were you able to read them?


                                    If it is not the case and if you were not able to read them or to read the comments, don't worry because I'm going to draft the final report and I'm going to send it to you for you to provide your comments.


Silvia:                           This is Silvia Herlein Leite speaking; can you hear me? 


Humberto:                      This is Humberto speaking.  Silvia, you have the floor and then after you Dev will have the floor.


Silvia:                           This is Silvia Herlein Leite.  Thank you very much, Humberto, sorry for being late.  I have read the report.  It is a very good report and according to the comments that were mentioned before I think they were well incorporated.  I was able only to listen to the last part of Dev's comments and of course I do agree with him and I also agree with Jose's comment regarding the priorities he has too seen or classifying documents with our priority for us that might need official translation.


                                    So these are all my comments and I do agree with what you said before.  I think that the activity and their present of the Working Group are very important so I would like to congratulate you on that.


Humberto:                      Thank you.  This is Humberto speaking.  Thank you, Silvia, for your comments.  Now I'm going to give the floor to Dev.  Dev, you have the floor; go ahead please.


Dev:                              Thank you.  This is Dev Anand Teelucksingh speaking.  I'll just respond to Jose.  With regards to having, I guess, formal documents that are translated at the beginning of the public comment process, I believe ICANN is trying to work towards that ideal.  You're already seeing that with, well, for example, ICANN meetings, for example, having all 61 languages supported with interpreters and so forth.


                                    In regards to policies are for public comment, I meant okay and meant that not 100% of the documents are translated at the beginning but there has been improvements over the years, I think, to releasing more and more documents, more critical documents are being -- have translated versions.


                                    This I posted a link in the chat, which is the upcoming public comments, and I think what needs to happen is both the chair and the secretariat need to be monitoring this list and so be ready to if there is a policy out for comment that's going to be published soon to make a formal request for that policy to be translated or ensure that that policy is translated so that it can be done because, well, yes we can request that the document to be translated but it then becomes difficult with other commentary being roughly 30 days, you know, to request a document be translated, you know, and it takes about a week roughly depending on the policy statement for the translation department -- sorry, for the language services to translate the document.  So that then leaves not much time to actually respond to the public comment.


                                    So, that's my first thought.  I didn't quite -- wasn't too sure what Jose was saying regarding the use of the use of the Cloud services again.  It's not a difficult question but my more important point is that even if it was LACRALO was to agree to decide to use, I don't know if he is referring to the attachments issue or to policies are for public comment.


                                    If it's going back to the attachments on the mailing list, I would again, I would disagree and the reason why I disagree with it is because someone will have to go back into the archives.  Having everything in the archives in one location is critical.  Otherwise you'll never know if somebody gives an opinion of a report of an election, summary or anything like that.  These very critical documents that are important for LACRALO, the history of LACRALO in terms of what he was thinking or what the actual outcomes so something like that, it needs to be in the archives that can be locked up by the ICAAN IT staff and so forth.


                                    Putting it by LACRALO Chair, Secretariat now and then five years later down the line any future Chair or Secretariat not being able to have access to those dock information would be, well, it would not be very good and so that's my comment on that.


                                    That's it; I want to hear if Jose understands what I'm saying.


Humberto:                      This is Humberto speaking.  Thank you very much, Dev, for your comment.  I would like to give the floor now to Jose Arce so that he can answer to your question.  Jose, you have the floor go ahead please.


Jose:                             This is Jose Arce speaking.  Thank you very much, Humberto.  Two things I would like to comment.  Dev, I was able to listen half of your comment because I was late and I was not able to hear because my audio is not good.  So I think you mentioned something about the Secretariat and the Chair.


                                    The other comment I would like to make is about the differences existing between English -- between Spanish, sorry, in item two.  I don't have my PC in front of me in terms of the document, final document.  One, this has to do with the GA.  As you all know the final result of that GA was a withdrawal of motions and this is a pending issue for the Working Group.  So we need to solve this so as to being able to move forward in two languages.


                                    So I would like to see the results of this Working Group in that respect and I would like to say today this.  That's all, Humberto; thank you.


Humberto:                      This is Humberto speaking.  I am reading Dev's comment on the AC room.  I see he's explaining his point.  I don't know if there is any doubt but, as I said before, I'm going to draft a final report.  I was sent an email with details so I would like to know if there are any other comments.  I would like to know if you agree with this, with the fact of sending the final draft by email.


                                    I see Dev is still typing.


Dev:                              Hi, this is Dev.  I could just clarify what I've been saying.  Hello.


Humberto:                      Humberto Carrasco speaking.  Okay what Dev is saying is that he would rather have documents, original documents, archived or preserved within the email exchange list.  The objective of this is the following, traditionally when you resort to Cloud services, different type of Cloud services.


                                    Humberto Carrasco speaking, and Gisella is indicating on the chat on my telephone line is bad.  She's asking me about any other alternative number where I can be reached if that is possible.


                                    So Humberto Carrasco speaking again.  Dev was saying that in his opinion it is convenient to have these documents archived on the list and not using alternative Cloud services, basically because you cannot guarantee that in the future these documents will be accessible or reachable.  They may disappear and--.


                                    Humberto Carrasco speaking again.  I'm sure the issues with audio are related to my line.  I will try to speak as slowly as possible so that you can understand and hear me.


                                    Dev was saying, and I repeat, that he would like an ICAAN list as the storage site instead of using external systems, such as Gmail for instance, because that does not guarantee or give you the certainty that in the future these files will be available.  In this way we can see that this is a technology issue and not a translation issue and he's right because, as a matter of fact, this has to do with attachments in the different email exchange lists.


                                    I don't know, Jose, if this addresses your comments and questions, if what I have said addresses your concerns.


Humberto:                      Humberto Carrasco speaking.  Apparently I am no longer on the Indy AC room.  I am connecting again.  Hello, Humberto speaking.


Interpreter:                      Yes, Humberto, we can hear you.


Humberto:                      Humberto speaking.  Okay good, so I am re-entering the AC room in order to check whether Jose has understood my explanation and in order to check whether that was what Dev was trying to explain to Jose.


Interpreter:                      Humberto Carrasco still speaking.


Dev:                              Hello, Humberto, this is Dev.


Humberto:                      I apologize.  I have issues with my Adobe connection.  Humberto Carrasco speaking.  So I will connect once again so please bear with me while I do that.


Sylvia:                          Humberto, this is Sylvia Herlein speaking.  Actually Jose has not written any comment on the chat.


Humberto:                      Okay.


Dev:                              This is Dev.  I would like to just say something.


Humberto:                      In any event I wanted to say whether my comment was understood.


Interpreter:                      Sylvia Herlein.


Sylvia:                          Yes I think it was understood.  I don't know if Jose is still on the line.  I don't know if he has understood that.


Interpreter:                      Okay Sylvia Herlein confirming that Jose has understood that.  Dev, I don't know if you have any other comment in relation to this point.


Dev:                              Okay thank you, Humberto.  This is Dev.  I guess that you summarized what I have put in the chart there so yes this is more of a technology issue of attachments.  It's more of a technology issue.  It's not really -- nothing to do with translation of documents as such so in a sense this aspect could be taken out of the report.  I mean ICANN IT staff is aware of the issue and hopefully they'll develop a solution to it.  And, as you said, and like I said it's very critical because the attachments are preserved in the archives.


                                    Yes later we can go back to -- we can go back to the history and expo future LACRALO members can look back on what LACRALO did or a report of what happened or something like that and understand what happened at that point so that's why in this issue of using cloud services in my mind is not a -- it should not be in this report at all.  It's a technology issue.  And in either case we should use the mailing list I think and hopefully the IT, ICANN IT staff, will solve the problem of the attachments on translated emails.  That's all.


Humberto:                      Humberto speaking.  Thank you, Dev, for your comment.


Interpreter:                      Jose Arce is speaking now.  Jose Arce is taking the floor.  Jose, would you like to take the floor?


Jose:                             I have no access to the AC room. 


Interpreter:                      Okay Jose Arce speaking.


Jose:                             Yes this is Jose Arce.  My hand is up, Humberto.


Humberto:                      Humberto speaking.  Okay go ahead.  Go ahead, Jose, please.


Interpreter:                      Jose Arce speaking.


Jose:                             Yes, Humberto, I wanted to take the floor but I can hardly hear you so may I go ahead?


Humberto:                      Humberto speaking.  Yes of course, go ahead please.


Jose:                             Jose Arce speaking.  I just wanted to make a comment on what Dev said regarding the cloud services and regarding the list.  I just wanted to say the following.  When he says that he wouldn't include this issue in the report, well, I believe that if an idea crops up it should be included in the report and it should be subject to the community's comment and I think that nothing at all should be discarded, no matter how impossible or harmful it may seem.


                                    I think nothing should be disregarded because the community needs to provide ideas and input and that has enabled us to move forward and to improve.  Even if we share these, this document, with the community on the whole, well, ideas may come up and if there are negative aspects then these negative aspects will not be reiterated and then better or worse ideas may crop up but we should not move back in time along these lines.  This is just my comment so I would like to see this point taken away from the report.


Humberto:                      Humberto Carrasco speaking.  Thank you, Jose.  If there is somebody putting their hand up would you kindly let me know because I have no access to the AC room now.


Dev:                              This is Dev.  I have my hand up.


Humberto:                      Humberto Carrasco speaking.  Dev, you have the floor.  Go ahead please.


Dev:                              Okay thank you, Humberto.  This is Dev.  Just to respond to Jose, the thing is I'm not saying to just, you know, just to not talk, just have the issue resolved.  What I am saying is that the IT stuff, it's nothing.  It has not been discarded.  It has not been disregarded or anything like that.  ICANN's IT stuff, we have already identified the problem.  It's a technology problem, not really a trend, something we leave to translation as such.  So that's my comments; it is simply that, you know, we cannot make recommendations to change our work flow or to change this aspect from a translation standpoint.  It's not, it's not -- it's nothing to do with translation.  That's my key comment here.  IT staff has been informed.  They are aware of the issue and it's something they are looking at to try to solve.


                                    Now, whether the IT staff with come up with the use the cloud services, that is somehow controlled by ICANN, and by controlled by ICANN meaning that ICANN can then back up the documents so that a complete archive can still be maintained, then that's okay.  But having us independently trying to do cloud services on our own I think would be a huge -- that would be a big problem because five years down the -- five, ten years later -- well, how shall I put it?  None of us may be in LACRALO anymore.  We may have moved on, you know, and the future persons in LACRALO might would find it difficult to try to piece together what we did or what we are doing, so that's really what my comment is.  It is not being discarded.  It is not being disregarded as such.


                                    I hope I am making my point clear.  That's it.  Thank you.


Humberto:                      Humberto Carrasco speaking.  Thank you very much, Dev.  I would like to note that I understand what Dev says and what Jose says.


Jose:                             Jose Arce speaking.  Humberto, I do have a comment.


Humberto:                      Humberto speaking.  Jose, would you like to take the floor?


Jose:                             Jose speaking.  Yes of course.


Humberto:                      Humberto speaking.  Go ahead, Jose.


Jose:                             Jose Arce speaking.  Sorry for this interruption, Humberto.  I understood perfectly well what Dev said in that the issues were of a different nature.  I do not mean to say that this is a translation problem because it is not.  However, this problem that is not a translation problem is related to email translations because when the email is translated the attachment does not go through so I think that this problem is related to translation so how come a working group is not able to provide a recommendation on this point?


                                    Dev, I do understand what you say.  I do understand this is not a translation issue but this is an issue that has to do with an attachment to a document that is translated.  This is my personal view, Dev.  I think that the working group is able to state a recommendation on an issue that is very close to us because it has to do with translation.  That's it.  Thank you.


Humberto:                      Humberto speaking.  Thank you, Jose.  Can you please let me know if somebody -- Sylvia Herlein, can you please let me know if somebody is asking for the floor on the AC room?


Interpreter:                      Sylvia Vivanco speaking.


Sylvia:                          No nobody else is asking for the floor.


Humberto:                      Humberto Carrasco speaking.  Thank you.  I understand Dev's proposal.  I understand Jose's proposal.  I would rather have the report as it is and state that we have nothing to recommendation because ICANN IT is already working on solving this problem.  Therefore we cannot recommend anything but for the purposes of the report and for the purposes of the record of our discussion we could write this, not because this is a translation issue because it is not.  But is does have an impact on translation issues.  It has an indirect impact.  From that standpoint I would agree to or on incorporating this and mentioning that this is already being considered.  This would be my proposal.


Dev:                              I agree.  This is Dev Anand Teelucksingh.  I agree with Humberto's recommendation.


Humberto:                      Berto speaking.  Thank you, Dev.  I don't know if Jose agrees with this?  Jose Arce, were you able to listen to my recommendation?  To hear my recommendations?


Dev:                              This is Dev.  This is Dev.  Jose is--


Jose:                             This is Jose Arce speaking.  I'm sorry.  My line was muted.  I was able to hear perfectly well and I agree.


Humberto:                      Humberto Carrasco speaking.  Okay good.  Is there any other comments?  If not, I would bring this call to a close.  If there are no further comments then?


Dev:                              Well, this is Dev.  I do have one further comment on another matter entirely in the report.  This is Dev.  Can I go?  All right, this is Dev speaking.  I've got one further final thing in the report.  Regarding the differences between the Spanish and English versions of our LACRALO rules of procedure, so would the recommendation be that the motions that were previously introduced in the General Assembly that's from (inaudible) that just were finished, that was finished last year, is it the recommendation of this Working Group that those motions be put to the Assembly and ensure that everybody is agreed so that it would not be any --there should not be any contentious issues as such?  Am I understanding this?  Is this what the report says?  That's all.



Interpreter:                      Jose Arce speaking.  Jose Arce speaking?


Jose:                             This is Jose Arce.  Sylvia Vivanco, I think you can take the floor.  Go ahead please.


Interpreter:                      This is the interpreter speaking.  Jose got disconnected and Humberto disconnected as well.


Dev:                              Oh dear.


Interpreter:                      And Sylvia Vivanco from staff is asking whether there is somebody on the Spanish channel.


Dev:                              Okay.


Interpreter:                      Sylvia, her line is still on the Spanish channel so Humberto and Jose have been disconnected.  Humberto is back on the call.


Humberto:                      We have to wait for Jose who had been given the floor so we will wait for Jose.  Is my audio better now?


Interpreter:                      Sylvia speaking.


Sylvia:                          Yes much better now, before it was choppy.


Interpreter:                      Sylvia Herlein speaking.


Sylvia:                          Jose said that he agreed with Dev's comment.  I imagine it has to do with idea of -- it has to do with the comment regarding the amendments or modifications presented in the General Assembly in Costa Rica but, just to make sure, we will wait for Jose.


Dev:                              Okay.


Humberto:                      Humberto speaking.  Okay we will wait for Jose to connect to the call again.  Sylvia Vivanco for the records.


Sylvia:                          While we wait for Jose I wanted to focus on the following action items so that we know exactly what the next steps are moving forward.  Since we have a report, well I think that maybe we have reached the point in which we can share this report with LACRALO and then we can focus on specific actions so as to start taking steps.  That's it.


Humberto:                      Humberto speaking.  Sylvia, yes indeed we have been socializing or sharing this report because it has been posted on the Wiki  and the Wiki is free access space and this is what we have been doing and we are focusing on the action items.


Interpreter:                      Jose Arce speaking again.  Humberto speaking.


Humberto:                      Go ahead please, Jose.


Jose:                             Jose Arce speaking.  Well, this proposal may be as valid or as any other or maybe I am wrong but LACRALO omitted some rules of procedures perhaps and it worked on the basis of consensus and we thought that that was okay because things were working out well.  So I thought the following.  If that was the case back then, then why shouldn't it be the case right now and instead of having an assembly etcetera why not coming up with a serious tragedy so as to reconcile or conciliate the Spanish and English documents?


                                    And why don't we leave this behind and say okay well, this is the Spanish document; this is the English document and we all agree on their content regardless of what the rule says.  Let us skip something that will be very time consuming if the region can reach consensus on the following.  We can take the GA's proposal and we can have these documents as the definite documents.  We can leave the rule aside, do away with these formal procedures and move forward or else we can stick to pure formality go back to the past, so this could be a proposal.


Interpreter:                      Humberto Carrasco speaking.


Humberto:                      Okay, Jose, yes I take your proposal.  I understand that if this is based on consensus then rather than consensus then this has to be unanimous agreement and if there is consensus then it has to be respected by everybody and it is my understanding that according to law then if there is consensus then no vote is required.  Nevertheless there are other people that stick to formality but I think that there is a higher principle by which if we have consensus and we have unanimous agreement, then that would override everything else and this consensus would not be invalid so I think that this may -- your proposal, Jose, may even have legal grounds because it is not infringing the rules.


Dev:                              Well, this is Dev.  I want to say something.


Humberto:                      Yes, Dev, go ahead please.  You have the floor.


Dev:                              Thank you, Humberto.  I have listened to Jose's suggestion.  My concern is is that where there's been misunderstandings in the past regarding these language differences, so my concern is is that well, I would say yes it would be good to say well okay look let's -- we all agree to it.  The problem in my mind is that to me it's an inconsistency that can be solved.  I mean if there is no disagreement with anyone, then having the Board formally to change it and all we're doing is updating the language, is harmonizing the language versions here, you know, so we're making things more clear for everybody.  The vote should be a very -- should be a straightforward formality, you know, and there should not be any issues or anything like that.  That's my opinion on it.


                                    And I think it then goes back into, and this is one of those longer problems is that how do we define consensus?  How do we demonstrate that okay there was no disagreement, you know, or agreement with this idea, you know, and it kind of brings up the issue of whether people are -- whether the issue was -- when the issue was discussed was it a quoret (ph) group that discussed it and so forth and then it goes into these kind of -- well, long arguments about these things, these formalities.


                                    So my suggestion is that if there's no disagreement with these proposals and this is a recommendation coming from the Working Group and everybody from the Working Group agrees that these are necessary and needed, then it can be put to the -- to everyone in LACRALO and, once everyone in LACRALO understands, then we take the vote so that it can -- again, it can be recorded that everyone agreed to this.  Everyone read this.  Everyone understood and approved the change and I think that's a good -- I think that's a good way to go forward.


                                    I don't think a formal vote is anything to worry about once we've clearly discussed it, shown what the motion is, ensured that its off load was properly translated.  Everybody has time to study it, nobody has any issues to object to and so forth.  So if nobody is voting or anything like that, then I guess that's a bigger issue that's well, I guess in LACRALO's strategic Working Group has (inaudible) lost focus on but we're not there yet.  That's it.


Interpreter:                      Humberto Carrasco speaking.


Humberto:                      Jose, you have the floor.  Jose Arce, please go ahead.  And then Sylvia Herlein was also asking for the floor.  Sylvia Herlein speaking.


Sylvia:                          Can you hear me?


Humberto:                      Humberto speaking.  Okay, Sylvia, you go ahead.  You have the floor.


Interpreter:                      Sylvia Herlein speaking.


Sylvia:                          Thank you.  I don't know if I understood correctly what Dev understood.  It is my understanding that Jose was proposing working on the basis of consensus and when Humberto mentioned the legal aspect of a unanimous decision, well I think that Jose proposed the following.  Why don't we propose these changes to the list and if nobody disagrees, we take this as approved instead of proceeding to a vote.  The idea is not to proceed to a vote, leave the formality aside and proceed on the basis of consensus.  Thank you.


Humberto:                      Humberto Carrasco, for the record; this is what I understood.


Dev:                              Okay I have to respond to that.


Humberto:                      And I also understand that Dev was proposing something different.  That is we can, as a group, agree on this document unanimously and then put this to the list.  This is different to what Sylvia Herlein was saying and to what Dev Anand was saying.  Sylvia explained this very well.  These are the between inverted commas the two positions, if you will.


                                    I think that Jose is typing something on the--


Dev:                              Well, we'll see.


Humberto:                      -- on the AC room.  Okay he says he is not on the call.  Okay Sylvia Herlein.


Interpreter:                      Okay Humberto Carrasco speaking.


Humberto:                      Okay we will need to continue debating this issue.  As I said, I will -- as from Monday I will work on the final report.  I will work on the final report.  I will be sending that report by email and maybe, if necessary, we may hold a conference call to see how to present this report to the rest of the LACRALO members.


                                    So if there are no further comments, then we will keep in touch in discussing this issue.


Interpreter:                      Sylvia Vivanco speaking.


Sylvia:                          Thank you very much.  This call transcript will be available in 48 hours in case you want to review it. 


Interpreter:                      Humberto Carrasco speaking.


Humberto:                      Well, thank you very much.


Interpreter:                      It is now Sylvia Herlein saying we are seven minutes past the hour.  Humberto Carrasco speaking.


Humberto:                      Okay we are eight minutes past the hour.  I adjourn this meeting.  I want to thank participants, staff and interpreters.  Have a good evening.  Thank you.  Goodbye.


Dev:                              Thank you, everyone, and thank you to the interpreters.  You managed -- I know that this is often a very (inaudible) to hear these, especially dealing with varied communication lines.



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