When: Wednesday, 09 January 2013. GMT Standard Time. 19:00 UTC / This is a 120 Minute Call.
11:00 PST, 14:00 EST, 19:00 London, 20:00 CET
Adobe Connect Link: http://icann.adobeconnect.com/r1onj8cflqp/
http://audio.icann.org/gnso/gnso-igo-ingo-20130109-en.mp3
On page: http://gnso.icann.org/calendar/#jan
The recordings and transcriptions of the calls are posted on the GNSO Master Calendar page:
http://gnso.icann.org/calendar/
Participants:
Lanre Ajayi - NCA
Alain Berranger - NPOC
Jim Bikoff – IPC/IOC
Mason Cole - GNSO Council Vice Chair - RrSG
Avri Doria – NCSG
Elizabeth Finberg - RySG
Chuck Gomes – RySG
Alan Greenberg – ALAC
Catherine Gribbin - Red Cross
Robin Gross – NCSG
Stephane Hankins - NCSG
Wolfgang Kleinwaechter - NCSG
David Maher - RySG
Kiran Malancharuvil - IPC/IOC
David Opderbeck - IPC
Christopher Rassi - Red Cross
Thomas Rickert - NCA - Working group chair
Jonathan Robinson - GNSO Council Chair - RySG
Greg Shatan - IPC
Ken Stubbs - RySG
Claudia MacMaster Tamarit - ISO
Apologies:
Paul Diaz - RySG
Osvaldo Novoa - ISPCP
Iliya Bazlyankov – RrSG
David Roache-Turner WIPO
ICANN Staff:
Brian Peck
Berry Cobb
Julia Charvolen
Proposed Agenda – IGO-INGO WG Meeting – 09 JAN 2013 @ 19:00 UTC (120 Min):
1. Roll Call / SOI Update
2. Status of General Council Request
3. Review of Work Package spreadsheet Inital Results
4. Review IGO-INGO Work Plan
5. Next steps & confirm next meeting
Action Items
1. None
Adobe Chat Transcript:
Adobe Chat transcript for 9 January 2013:
Berry Cobb:Welcome to the 9 JAN 2013 IGO-INGO Conference Call.
Ken Stubbs:does this adobe room include audio ?
Berry Cobb:Hi Ken. No. Audio is only on the teleconference bridge
Ken Stubbs:just got off a 2 hr call with 25 people using the adobe audio system & it was wonderful and easy to use
Ken Stubbs:claudia.. does iso refer to intl standards organization ?
Alan Greenberg:@Ken. Less so in areas with bandwidth issues.
avri:Ken, I agree, all GNSO call should have adobe audio enabled.
avri:Alan: everybody does not need to use the abobe audio.
Alan Greenberg:No. I wasn't arguing for not enabling it which I support. Just pointing out that it is not a perfect solution for all.
avri:yes, it was a long wait on the bridge. asnother reason for allowing adobe voice.
avri:Alan, nothing is a perfect solution for all
Claudia MacMaster Tamarit (ISO):It is our short name that refers to the International Organization for Standardization (in all language translations of our name). In this way, it's not our acronym.
Berry Cobb:David Roche-Turner also sent his apologies.
Julia Charvolen 2:I will note that, thank you
Claudia MacMaster Tamarit (ISO):Completely agree.
Ken Stubbs:avri +1
Elizabeth Finberg:+1
avri:But the WG is empowered to decide on the type of treaty that are relvant.
Kiran Malancharuvil:The GAC rationale about why to use the Nairobi Treaty might shed some light on Claudia's concerns. Not to say that we should be restrained by that analysis, but it may be helpful.
Claudia MacMaster Tamarit (ISO):Avri, that is my understanding as well.
Berry Cobb:Ken dropped from the call.
Ken Stubbs:ken got knocked off the call
Ken Stubbs:trying to get back in.
Ken Stubbs:wish we had the audio enhancement adobe offers with this service
Claudia MacMaster Tamarit (ISO):That's right. ISO produced the very standard you are speaking about.
Berry Cobb:v1.5.1
Kiran Malancharuvil:I think the ongoing Trademark Clearinghouse negotiations speak volumes about the "ease" of amending RPMs
avri:the TMCH is a new institution. that is somewhat different. In this case it was initially designed badly and is now undergoing redesign. It will be ficed in finte time. I would call that easy.
avri:We know a lot is spent on defensive registrations. We do not know that this is necessary expenditure.
avri:We also only know about the enpense of defenisve registrations in a .com world, not in an environemtn with 1000s of domain names. where no foo will care about foo.bar
Alan Greenberg:Blocking is not the only outcome that we may consider, but it is certainly the controversial issue.
Kiran Malancharuvil:Agreed Greg, especially considering the wealth of information produced in the IOC.RCRC DT on the issue. We will contribute asap.
avri:I think it would be better if the Kiran entry in Adobe read IOC, since it seems to rarely be Kiran that is writing or speaking.
Kiran Malancharuvil:Actually Kiran is always typing and often speaking, thank you very much.
avri:Also the fact that everyone did not particpate does not mean that does that did should be disparareged by those who disagree.
avri:Kiran: it is hard to know.
Kiran Malancharuvil:it's not necessary to distinguish since we both represent the IOC, and that's well known.
Greg Shatan:I took pains not to disaparage anybody, just to note accurately that it is one-sided.
avri:The you sould sign in as IOC. In WG, people are normally particpating as individuals. Your case is different.
Kiran Malancharuvil:thanks for your suggestion. noted.
Alan Greenberg:@Stephane, problem is that this PDP and the chart are addressing far more than the RCRC and their legal protection bases are higly varied.
Alain Berranger, NPOC:The composition of sub-work groups is an issue
avri:people should be particpating in the subgroups - i do't beleive anyone was excluded frmo any sub-group. i even got stuck on one I did not remember volunteering for.
avri:sub-groups have mailing lists?
David Opderbeck:Agree with Alan -- see, e.g., information on U.S. limitations on IOC marks in the current NOTP spreadsheet
Alain Berranger, NPOC:@avri - I agree and ability by anyone to send comments solves any bias generated by sub-group composition
Alain Berranger, NPOC:...correction ...any possible bias...
hankins:Thanks Alan... Indeed, I realise well that all cases are distinct and specific...
Greg Shatan:I would agree that defensive registrations are one of the great scams of the internet. One can't know which defensive registration is "necessary" and which are not. Therefore, as a strategic matter, a rightsholder needs to acquire the unnecessary registrations along with the necessary ones. If you have a building with 12 doors, and you want to secure your building, which doors do you leave unlocked?
Claudia MacMaster Tamarit (ISO):Sorry, I've dropped from the call.
avri:Greg, but i would argue that paranoia, aka, covering all the possible doors and windows and crawlspaces, is not a good reason for special protection.
avri:Should I get police protection when I am afraid people will attack my home becasue i have something that I think someone might want to misappropraite?
Elizabeth Finberg 2:+1
Alain Berranger, NPOC:defensive registrations are a reality of the internet for all..... so special protection for none vs special protection for a few vs special protection for all... how will we ever know where the right balance is struck?
Claudia MacMaster Tamarit (ISO):Greg plus 1
avri:If the percentage of money passed on is a criteria, what level of overhead do we accept before we say they aren't charity enough?
Alain Berranger, NPOC:@Alan: +1 on evidence-based policy making
Alan Greenberg:@chuck, yes, by "participation" I didn't just mean be on our calls. Contribution of data iwould be very helpful.
Greg Shatan:I don't think it our job at all to make value judgments regarding whether an organization is "charitable enough"
Alan Greenberg:@Greg, certainly we cannot make that call, but we could set such a criteria that would later be judged by others. If indeed that were a criteria that we felt was important.
avri:But if we are going to say cost of defnesive registration is a reason becaue it stops them from being charitable, we should also take into account the degreet o which they spend money o first calss place seats or expesnive vacations for the leadership or other head wasteage. Therfore picking a number could be reasonable. There are criteria that say leass tha 90%, or less than 80% etc is unacceptable.
avri:Th money spent on defensive registration is only significant in a lean mean charity, not in a fat and happy organization.
Claudia MacMaster Tamarit (ISO):Completely agree with Greg.
avri:Indeed, we need to protect the future registrants who are not represented here and who do not have lobbying groups.
Kiran Malancharuvil:Greg, on your point regarding the answers in the spreadsheet under IGOs, I took that information from their submission, I didn't make a independent judgment call
Kiran Malancharuvil:For example, they note in their submission that the paris convention does not impose an obligation to enact speccific national laws
Alain Berranger, NPOC:@Kiran: I suggest that the criterion "Possess International Legal Personality" be included as a qualifying criteria
Alan Greenberg:@avri, agree with both of your last two comments.
Kiran Malancharuvil:Alain, thanks. If you can send that suggestion, as well as filling out the relevant fields of the spreadsheet for that criteria, that would be most helpful
Kiran Malancharuvil:there is a Qualification Criteria specific listserv
Alain Berranger, NPOC:@avri and Alan: +1
avri:Special protection happen at the expense of the possible registrants. who would also have a justifiable reason for registering the names people want blocked.
Berry Cobb:Near the end of the call, I will brief the WG on how to provide feedback for each of the work packages.
Kiran Malancharuvil:I second Greg's comments about Thomas! Well done Thomas!
Alain Berranger, NPOC:@Kiran - will make my suggestion on the email list
Kiran Malancharuvil:Thanks Alain
Greg Shatan:I wan't saying it would stop them from being "charitable." I aslo think it is way beyond our scope to start vetting IGOs orINGOs. Guidestar and Charity Navigator are organizations that do nothing but that for US NFPs.
Alain Berranger, NPOC:"Greg: +1
Kiran Malancharuvil:I think the best we can do as a group is come up with objective criteria and allow organizations to take advantage of them or not as wanted/needed.
Claudia MacMaster Tamarit (ISO):Agree with Kiran.
Alain Berranger, NPOC:Agree with Kiran
avri:Gteg, my point was a conditional one. If we are going to use expenses as a criteria, we need to use expenses in a fleshed out manner that includes overhead and the 5age of defnece expence as part of overhead etc... what I object to is argument about how much X costs, with out the rest of the finacial analysis.
Kiran Malancharuvil:I would suggest moving this conversation to the list... it's very hard to review and discuss the merits of one criteria versus another on a call in which we only have 20 more minutes
Kiran Malancharuvil:Thanks Berry for your work on this.
avri:Berry: can you send eahc of the lists a message so we know the address of the list?
