Brenda Brewer:Good day all and welcome to the At-Large Review:  Webinar on Draft Report by ITEMS on 27 February 2017 @ 13:00 UTC!

          Brenda Brewer:When not speaking, kindly mute your phone by pressing *6 and *7 to unmute.  Thank you.

          Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO):echo is untenable

          Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO):please MUTE if you are not speaking

          Glenn McKnight:muted

          Aída Noblia:Hola a todos

          Aída Noblia: yo escucho sí Claudia

          Stephane van gelder:Hi everyone

          Eduardo Diaz:The echo is in Spanish

          Rinalia Abdul Rahim:I hear Spanish radio in the background.

          Lianna Galstyan:Hello everyone

          Eduardo Diaz:Me too

          Yaovi Atohoun:Hello everyone

          Alberto Soto:Hola a todos, hello alll

          Siranush Vardanyan:hi all

          CW:Good afternoon everyone. Christopher Wilkinson

          Alberto Soto:With 38 degrees C in Buenos Aires!!

          Javier Rúa-Jovet:hey all/hola!

          Khaled Koubaa:Hello everyone

          Harold Arcos:Hello everyone from sunny Carnival-Caracas

          Silvia Vivanco:Hello all

          Glenn McKnight:Can't hear anything

          Stephane van gelder:Anyone know what time the call is due to start?

          Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO):I am assuming that they have not started

          Brenda Brewer:Starting Momentarily

          Glenn McKnight:now i hear something

          George Sadowsky:Hello

          Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO):5 mins ago Stephan

          Glenn McKnight:ah  hear something now

          Gordon Chillcott:I still hear background from somewhere.

          Javier Rúa-Jovet:got no mic, I'm at dentist !

          CW:No echo here CW

          Gisella Gruber:@ McTIm - Rosa is not on the AC

          Brenda Brewer:Please state your name when speaking not only transcription purposes but to allow the interpreters to identify you on the other language channel

          McTim:ok, thanks Gisellla

          Wafa Dahmani:please mute our speakers

          Wafa Dahmani:your

          Wale Bakare:Hi all, good afternoon

          R R KRISHNAA:Hi to all

          carlos dionisio aguirre ADIAR:fully agree with second position

          Vanda Scartezini:sorry late... carnival here...

          Aída Noblia:si se  escucha

          Javier Rúa-Jovet:no nick!

          Jeff Neuman:we can hear through adobe though

          Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO):we here you Tom, not Nick

          Wafa Dahmani:we can hear

          Wafa Dahmani:you

          Gisella Gruber:Nick Thorne speaking

          Javier Rúa-Jovet:yep

          Glenn McKnight:It odd that  this  recomm 7 was suggested when the survey failed to include any questions on  Working groups

          avri doria (observer):while shooting a messenger is to be frowned on.  criticizing one that has not managed to gain a wide enough perspective or which interpretted that message in a skewed manner, is often ok.

          avri doria (observer):emasculation? hmmm

          Alan Greenberg:Change from Westlake report wsa SOLELY done by a Board committee with no input from At-Large Leadership.

          Dev Anand Teelucksingh:+1 Avri

          Javier Rúa-Jovet:in a meritocratic volunteer system those volunteers that work hardest and longest become and remain leaders. period. 

          Eduardo Diaz:But..  we are doing this now. One ATLAS /5yrsand regionalls accordingly to ICANN meeting rotation. We are doing this now

          Javier Rúa-Jovet:I'm new and

          Dev Anand Teelucksingh:Indeed Javier, true for any volunteer organsisations

          carlos dionisio aguirre ADIAR:I think . could be add the anual regional meetings to five year ATLAS

          Javier Rúa-Jovet:I'm new and I recognize this clearly. I don't perceive arbitrary entrenched elites. I perceive hard working and well informed volunteers

          avri doria (observer):yes, the idea of rotating authors is a good one, especially when there is a large pool of people who can write sufficiently well, and who are willing to contribute that kind of time.  many aa qualified textworker, one who can produce text on command, are busy supporting themselves with that skill and not gernally avaialble to such a pool unless unemployed.

          carlos dionisio aguirre ADIAR:great comment.

          jeff neuman:Recommending use of auction funds is contrary to the Cross Community Working Group process ongoing now.

          Alan Greenberg:Board is out of the loop in this process. This ignores established ICANN processes

          Javier Rúa-Jovet:I like the rotating meetings

          CW:Recc. #15 Already done. Correct?

          Becky Burr:@ Alan?

          R R KRISHNAA:agree with recommendation 11

          avri doria (observer):Jeff, the recommendation is not really out of place.  implementing it before the resolution on how to treat such funds before the process complete is.

          Alan Greenberg:Becky, Q about 15?

          Alberto Soto:How do you know that the drains are not doing external diffusion?

          Vanda Scartezini:evcome Jeff

          Vanda Scartezini:welcome

          Alberto Soto:Sorry, Ralos

          jeff neuman:@Avri - Well have to agree to disagree on this one.  The recommendation could have been for a greater more stable funding source.  But to point to the auction funds explicitly at this stage is in my view inappropriate

          Milton Mueller:agree Jeff

          carlos dionisio aguirre ADIAR:this recomendation mean a very difficult task, specially lasts points

          Alan Greenberg:REc 15 presumes Board has a decisional role right now, and it also presumes that auction funds should b eused for regular oprational funding which I suspect will not go over really well.

          Alberto Soto:How many individual members do you expect to join?

          Milton Mueller:money is actually not what At Large is lacking

          Stephane van gelder:I applaude ITEMS for suggesting solutions that seek to ensure greater end-user engagement in At Large. This in my view is currently very difficult for end-users to do.

          Wale Bakare:@Alberto, maybe over billion internet users?

          avri doria (observer):so staff, the organization, decides who may be a At Large leader?

          Eduardo Diaz:Problem here is how you keep balance in the regions

          Alan Greenberg:REcognizigng active users is not an implementation detail. It is THE core problem in the EMM. And should this really be aSTAFF function deciding who is active and who is not?

          Alberto Soto:I also applaud the intentions of ITEMS, but not some of its recommendations, are not substantiated or are poorly substantiated.

          Javier Rúa-Jovet:don't see NOMCOM appointments (like me!) in either side

          Dev Anand Teelucksingh:@Wale - extremely unrealistic - there are many persons that drive cars, but have no experience or desire to learn, understand or maintain cars.

          Lianna Galstyan:+1 Dev

          Javier Rúa-Jovet:o yes sorry NC oooos

          Glenn McKnight:sound is choppy

          Javier Rúa-Jovet:oooops

          Eduardo Diaz:@JAvier: wait until they talk about the rappoteours

          Stephane van gelder:I agree Alberto, and see this EMM as a bold first step towards trying to solve the end-user representation problem in At Large. But it needs to be refined...

          Alfredo Calderon:Loosing audio.  Difficulty following ideas.

          Dev Anand Teelucksingh:audio is indeed choppy

          avri doria (observer):yeah Nomcom got the black box inidicator

          jeff neuman:All - have to drop, but I will listen to recording.  Thanks everyone.

          Javier Rúa-Jovet:@avri ok yep thx

          Alberto Soto:@Wale, I want ITEMS to tell me that, and on which their calculation is based. Or is there no calculation ??

          carlos dionisio aguirre ADIAR:yeah. audio is bad. will be better to hear the records. thanks . bye.

          Eduardo Diaz:EMM is as messy as this diagram

          Rinalia Abdul Rahim:would be interesting to get NomCom input on the recommendations.

          Javier Rúa-Jovet:@rinalia +1

          Wale Bakare:@Dev, thanks. But if not all but many drivers have prior knowledge about driving, roads, safety issues relating to driving on the road. I guess the context you are alluding is applicable to Pilots, for airplanes?

          CW:We ned a saveable version of the .ppt slides. There is too much detail to address in realtime on screen. CW

          Glenn McKnight:The arts infographics are more confusing

          Stephane van gelder:Rinalia, I think it's too early to solicit NomCom input. The recs need to be polished first. For example the question of how a participant's active status is determined, and who determines it, is key.

          R R KRISHNAA:the changes proposed require more detail discussion

          Javier Rúa-Jovet:yes I need this ppt and can't download in my iphone

          Eduardo Diaz:Hwo do you define active ALM and how do you  make sure that not all ALMs come from one country

          Glenn McKnight:@javier the infographic has imputs but no outputs

          avri doria (observer):Rinalia, which Nomcom? since there is no continuity of proecess among nomcom instantiations, what can the current nomcom say about the ability or interest of  future nomcom? does seem a question for the nomcom review, though.

          carlos dionisio aguirre ADIAR:agee krishnaa

          Eduardo Diaz:This is the illusion of change

          Alberto Soto:Synthesizing, how many millions of users today want to participate and have the necessary knowledge?

          carlos dionisio aguirre ADIAR:clap clap @ eduardo

          avri doria (observer):do individual EMMs have the same vote as an ALS?

          Stephane van gelder:Avri, any NomCom should have the ability to determine opinions. Your statement is like saying we can't ask the Board what it thinks because Board members are subject to change...

          Larisa Gurnick:@McTim - your audio is choppy, hard to hear.  Can you pause and see if you can get a better connection?

          Rinalia Abdul Rahim:avri, in my view it doesn't matter which NomCom. it is about feasibility and challenges related to implementation.

          Milton Mueller:good to encourage AL

          Milton Mueller:to

          Milton Mueller:look outward

          R R KRISHNAA:EMM is a big change proposed.  More light needs to thrown on this.

          Alan Greenberg:Issue with NomCom is that Liaisons really need some knowledge of the organizations they are linking, and nomcom appointees generally are brought in to have new blood and with minimal klnowledge of the details of ICANN.

          avri doria (observer):( i have yet to read this version, so am asking ininformed questions. just curious )

          Stephane van gelder:Alan, the question re NomCom was the committe members themselves, not the NCAs...

          Stephane van gelder:committee

          Dev Anand Teelucksingh:@Wale - no, the idea that somehow all end users will join because they are impacted - going back to the car analogy - how many drivers were involved or get involved in the rules that govern them? Very minnisule -only the ones that care enough about the function of cars and advocating for changes - rules against drunk driving, baby car seats, etc - a very small subset

          Javier Rúa-Jovet:hey!!! i had a bit more info than minimal!

          CW:I am not against term limites, but only on the condition that they apply to ALL SOAC, including Board Seats. CW

          Javier Rúa-Jovet:I'm kind of against term limits when somebody is doing good work

          carlos dionisio aguirre ADIAR:who control the random selection ?

          Stephane van gelder:There already are term limits for most ICANN groups.

          Stephane van gelder:Board included

          Eduardo Diaz:Are this same election recommendationa going to be done in other parts of the organization?

          avri doria (observer):CW, The Board does have term limits, at least for non liaisions.  though it is long enough to seem like a lifetime.

          Alan Greenberg:@STephane. report is recmmending that NomCOm name people who will become Liaisons from ALAC to other ICANN orgs. That requires knowledge of the two orgs, which NomCOm appointees do not typically have. Question is whether a Nomom could locate people to appoint who have this prior ICCANN knowledge, and whether that negates NomComs role of bringing in new blood.

          carlos dionisio aguirre ADIAR:the random selection need a clearly mechanism of transparency.

          Vanda Scartezini:how infrmation from many groups goes back to Ralos'members if the raporteurs send it directly to ALAC? will be all meembers discuss the raporteur  information together with ALAC, or they will be out of the knowledge process?

          Milton Mueller:Carlos: random selections are typically

          avri doria (observer): i have no problem with letting the fates decide on who is the leader. but that assume that all candidates are eqqually qualified ( for some defintion of qualified )

          Eduardo Diaz:IS it used in ICANN?

          Milton Mueller:controlled by randomness 😏

          Javier Rúa-Jovet:I'm against randomness

          Eduardo Diaz:Sounds like quantum mechanics

          Glenn McKnight:Was it the community that suggested the EMM?

          Alan Greenberg:WE could GREATLY reduce of NomCOm if they too use a randome selection in making choices.

          Javier Rúa-Jovet:I'm for meritocracy and rewarding hard work with harder work

          Alan Greenberg:REduce WROK of NomCom....

          Glenn McKnight:Randomness  interesting take...

          carlos dionisio aguirre ADIAR:I think in this case need more transparency. or at least a mechanism to appeal

          avri doria (observer):Alan, great idea, if it is good for At Large it shuld be good for the entire set of communiy selections.

          Javier Rúa-Jovet:fuzzy logic at a distance

          Roberto Gaetano:Does this apply also to SO-selected Board members?

          McTim:Random selection is already part of the AT Large Board selection process (if needed)

          Dev Anand Teelucksingh:I don't see how this random selection prevents poistions being filled by individuals that are influential, affluent, or from the Anglo Saxon West

          Milton Mueller:yes. the process of vetting nominees and voting on them in At Large is extremely manipulated and political. details need the be worked out by I support the general thrust of this recommendation

          Alan Greenberg:WE could also start using random selection to resolve differences bewtween parties in Policy Processes.

          Glenn McKnight:echo

          Wale Bakare:@Javier, exactly. Not far away from robot software mechanism

          Javier Rúa-Jovet:@

          Javier Rúa-Jovet:@alan +1

          Glenn McKnight:Ah here is the rub...

          Stephane van gelder:;) Glenn

          Milton Mueller:if you don't like random selections n how about having truly open, one member one vote elections instead of the top down selection process you have now?

          Eduardo Diaz:RAppoteours = ALS

          Glenn McKnight:Confused  Item7 wants  WG  to be abolished now  we are talking reps of WG's?

          Dev Anand Teelucksingh:Indeed, Alan, this random selection could reduce the work of Nomcom -  even freeeing up the need for Nomcom  in the logic presented is to be accepted

          Eduardo Diaz:Again, the illusion of chabge

          Carlton Samuels:@Alan: Maybe the NomCom might actually benefit from seriously looking at this selection approach!

          ken stubbs:Most important re: nomcom the appointees need to understand that their principal responsibility is to ICANN. All nomcom members, regardless who appoints them have  a fiduciary responsibility to appoint appluicants who have skill sets which provide the greatest benefit to ICANN, the corp, (not the appointee who best advocates the positions of the interest group the nomcom member )

          Stephane van gelder:If NomCom has less work to make ALAC selections, should there also be less ALAC representation on the NomCom itself?

          ken stubbs:+1 stephane

          McTim:@Stephane, NomCom will have slightly MORE work in this model

          Carlton Samuels:@Stephane: I think that IS the implication!

          George Sadowsky:Stephane, there are five ALAC nominees on the nominating committee

          Stephane van gelder:Council of Elders feels like a copout by ITEMS!

          Alfredo Calderon:Yes

          Khaled Koubaa:Yes e hear you but you have an Echo Rosa

          ken stubbs:there s/b term limitations on council of elders appointees

          Glenn McKnight:@Stephane  on one hand they critize a

          Stephane van gelder:+1 Ken

          McTim:Why copout?  It is used to good effect in AfriNIC.  It is quite useful.

          Glenn McKnight:repeat offenders then suggest a council of elders

          Alan Greenberg:@Stephane Proposal calls for more work for NomCom, not less.  Far more detailed criteria for appointtes to ALAC and NomCom also now eveluates the At-Large Board Member EoIs

          McTim:I wouldn't say "far more" work, just a bit more...

          Stephane van gelder:@McTim: you are suggesting there is not enough turnover in ALAC Leadership, then you go and give past Leaders 2 seats!

          Eduardo Diaz:How you keep regional balance without capture?

          Alfredo Calderon:<QUESTION>Who certifies members?<QUESTION>

          Vanda Scartezini:if each representant of  actual ALS will become individuals , for instance,  and become rapourteur due its knowledge for instance, nothing will change?

          R R KRISHNAA:Selection must be based on good representation of all combined geographical regions, expertise of the individuals and clear assessment of the individuals as to how much the individual can contribute and deliver the results.   Fresh and innovative ideas must be welcomed.

          Stephane van gelder:Thanks Alan, I have to admit the full proposal isn't 100% clear to me yet ;)

          Glenn McKnight:NOMCOM more  detailed work on ALAC appointees isn't a bad idea.   More rigerous work will produce a higher productive and engaged ALAC

          avri doria (observer):while intended, perhaps, to be a sinecure, it will in time become yet another power base.

          Stephane van gelder:+1 Glen

          Glenn McKnight:We have seen some inconsistency with the appointees

          McTim:I see your confusion, if you read the report, there are 6 people on thie CoE, it is a one meeting per year obligation on the part of the CoE, and CoE is also term limited

          carlos dionisio aguirre ADIAR:what will be the items measured by metrics ?

          McTim:so not a blank check

          Glenn McKnight:OUr current  ALAC member from NOMCOM is  superb

          McTim:but I see how you could think that it is questionable

          avri doria (observer):when does the comment period end?

          McTim:post CPH avri

          Alfredo Calderon:<QUESTION> Rappouterurs might not necessarily represent all regions. How this be done to avoid excessive participation from a specific region?<QUESTION>

          Ariel Liang:public comment period ends on 24 March 2017

          Harold Arcos:@Avri

          avri doria (observer):Thanks Ariel

          Ariel Liang:no problem

          Harold Arcos:Time line At-Large Review: Draft Report

          Alan Greenberg:Need to be able to see hands

          Glenn McKnight:echo

          Carlton Samuels:I cannot help but notice this fatal presumption: that there is a whole group of able folks lining up --l ike an Apple marketing event - to join up and put in as much as 40 hours a week! Despite what might have been heard, overnment mules are scarce!

          Carlton Samuels:And when I say 'able' I mean folks who are work ready!

          Glenn McKnight:@Carelton you are right the new job descriptions  doubles up the work load. for what?

          Javier Rúa-Jovet:@carlton +1

          Gordon Chillcott:@Carktib - agreed.  And as you keep trying to remind us all - we are volunteers.   We have other things that take up our time.

          Milton Mueller:so true CW. Board wanted to limit individuals influence

          Gisella Gruber:CW = Christopher Wilkinson

          Carlton Samuels:Individuals get work done.  The indicative problem we have is to find work-ready individuals to advance the At-Large agenda in ICANN on a regular basis.  Solve that problem and we all can rest easy.

          Gisella Gruber:Pleas state  your names when speaking!

          Gisella Gruber:Tijani Ben Jemaa speaking

          Milton Mueller:Carleton - that is a problem all Icann entities face

          Dev Anand Teelucksingh:Indeed Carlton

          Carlton Samuels:@Milton: Yessir, those of us who show up for WGs know that.

          Vanda Scartezini:+ 1 Carlton

          Carlton Samuels:You just need to look at the WG lists going back 10 years!  Most of the people I know outside of the At-Large are from GNSO/ccNSO WGs. And I tell there is very little turnover there!

          Milton Mueller:how do you make it easier to find "work ready individuals" by forcing them to join an arbitrary ALS before they can work? is this not an obvious barrier to entry?

          ken stubbs:better now with echo

          Carlton Samuels:@Milton: Yes, that IS a barrier to entry and must be removed. Some RALOs have already done so.

          Stephane van gelder:Why don't you go to the next person in the list?

          Stephane van gelder:And ask people to be brief ;)

          ken stubbs:you need to limiut length of comments or you will never get thru the que

          Rinalia Abdul Rahim:QUESTION for ITEMS: you indicated that you find the At-Large NOT YET accountable to its stakeholders. can you clarify whether you include the ALAC in your category of At-Large or is it separated?

          Carlton Samuels:MY continuing interest is work ready individuals. Any strategem/ruse/contraption that delivers more of those is the one I am happy to embrace.

          ken stubbs:cant hear person

          Vanda Scartezini:ken - just the translator

          Siranush Vardanyan:connectivity issues, sorry

          Stephane van gelder:But it's the SAME people rotating!

          Glenn McKnight:I don't understand why this isn't captioned

          Brenda Brewer:Time Check:  15 Minutes remaining

          Eduardo Diaz:@Glenn - $$

          Vanda Scartezini:good question Glenn

          Silvia Vivanco:@ Glenn the Captioning Pilot phase II is now complete with 6 calls held as per the TOR of the pilot

          Carlton Samuels:@Stephane: That is true. As Milton pointed out, this is happening everywhere.

          Stephane van gelder:Carlton. Everywhere? Where? Give examples pls

          Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO):that is a question MSSI Glenn  this webinar is an ITEMS one arranged by them

          Glenn McKnight:Only two terms for me

          Alan Greenberg:There are no recommendations related to who to send as NomCom delegates.   Only on who NomCom selectes

          George Sadowsky:Ken is absolutely correct.

          Khaled Koubaa:It seems I have a problem with my headset - My question is on personal capacity : I would be happy to hear more from ITEMS more on how exactly the EMM will accelerate the policy workflow ? It still not clear for me if this is the case

          Glenn McKnight:@Ken we need to look beyond our  community and think of the best person

          Carlton Samuels:@Ken: Agree. NonCom appointees should be those person is one who would have a wider view of ICANN in the world and situate the candidates in that framework.

          CW:@Ken: I agree in general, but the same principles  should apply to all SO participation in NomCom. e.g. how on earth did NomCom produce a Board that could approve the new gTLD program as we have experienced it?

          Eduardo Diaz:The EMM is based on the notion that theer are many internet users linning up to volunteer to work on ICANN policy work. Good luck with that!

          Stephane van gelder:LOL Eduardo!

          Dev Anand Teelucksingh:Indeed, its a baffling premise

          Carlton Samuels:@Eduardo: As I said, ICANN is characterised like it is the next cool Apple product with people sleep ing at sidewalks to get in!

          Lars Hoffmann:Please note there are also a workshop with ITEMS scheduled in Copenhagen:Workshop with ITEMS International during ICANN58 on Wednesday, 15 March, 201715:15-16:45; Ball B3

          Eduardo Diaz:Rappoorteur=ALSs

          Glenn McKnight:Thanks  Lars

          Vanda Scartezini:how the knowledge goes back from the rapporteur to the region persons belongs? ALAC will the the only place where knowledge about ICANN will flow? QUESTION. ( I will make this comment too in the public comment

          ken stubbs:@cw many of the problems you have referred to can be attributed to implementation problems and delays caused by large interests lobbying and putting pressure on staff to implement unnecessary procedures.

          Wafa Dahmani:Thank you Lars

          Harold Arcos:Questioning the relationships that are naturally built within At-Large and their relationship to the votes for positions in the structure is like questioning the Lobby that is naturally built into a Working Structure like ICANN. I think the important thing is to develop the practices necessary for User Interests to enter and be reflected in each Policy because this will impact everyone as an RFC.

          ken stubbs:emm must not have interviewed many former nomcomm members who were not from alac. this could be an inherent weakness in study

          Stephane van gelder:Appreciate your answer a lot Tim, thanks

          Carlton Samuels:So far as I know - and absent matters like language and associated services, interest, time to commit, a base of knowledge - there is presently NO barrier to remotely participate in GNSO/ccNSO chartered WGs.

          CW:@ Tim: Oh!  As an individual member my prionciple objective would be to influence the selection of Board members.

          Larisa Gurnick:@ITEMS - only 5 minutes remaining

          Harold Arcos:Indeed @Carlton

          ken stubbs:h@cw how would you propose to influence and what outcomes would be your goals ?

          Khaled Koubaa:I think accelerating At-Large community policy workflow is the most important target. I am still not convinced that the EMM will accelerate it

          Glenn McKnight:@Carelton the devil is the details how to make it happen

          Tijani BEN JEMAA:They are community

          ken stubbs:+1 glenn


          Tijani BEN JEMAA:they are appointed by the board

          Alan Greenberg:SSAC does indeed form internal WG to address specific topis

          Rinalia Abdul Rahim:SSAC has work parties working on different issues

          Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO):yup

          CW:@Ken: precisely, the individual memeber is too remote from electoral decisions that matter.

          Stephane van gelder:Thanks everyone for such a rich discussion.

          avri doria (observer):facts, so bothersome sometimes.

          Glenn McKnight:yep

          Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO):thanks all bye for now

          Glenn McKnight:bye

          Lianna Galstyan:thanks for this webinar,  bye

          Javier Rúa-Jovet:bye

          Alberto Soto:Thanks, bye!!!

          Vanda Scartezini:thank you all from ITEMs

          Eduardo Diaz:THnaks for the webminar

          Harold Arcos:A very rich discussion

          Yaovi Atohoun:bye

          Carlton Samuels:Bye LL. tHANKS

          Dev Anand Teelucksingh:take care all

          Aída Noblia:Buenos días, tardes, noche . Bye all

          CW:B'ye CW

          Harold Arcos:bye

          Gordon Chillcott:Bye, all.  And thanks.

          Siranush Vardanyan:bye




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