Brenda Brewer:Good day all and welcome to the At-Large Review: Webinar on Draft Report by ITEMS on 27 February 2017 @ 13:00 UTC!
Brenda Brewer:When not speaking, kindly mute your phone by pressing *6 and *7 to unmute. Thank you.
Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO):echo is untenable
Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO):please MUTE if you are not speaking
Aída Noblia:Hola a todos
Aída Noblia: yo escucho sí Claudia
Stephane van gelder:Hi everyone
Eduardo Diaz:The echo is in Spanish
Rinalia Abdul Rahim:I hear Spanish radio in the background.
Lianna Galstyan:Hello everyone
Eduardo Diaz:Me too
Yaovi Atohoun:Hello everyone
Alberto Soto:Hola a todos, hello alll
Siranush Vardanyan:hi all
CW:Good afternoon everyone. Christopher Wilkinson
Alberto Soto:With 38 degrees C in Buenos Aires!!
Javier Rúa-Jovet:hey all/hola!
Khaled Koubaa:Hello everyone
Harold Arcos:Hello everyone from sunny Carnival-Caracas
Silvia Vivanco:Hello all
Glenn McKnight:Can't hear anything
Stephane van gelder:Anyone know what time the call is due to start?
Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO):I am assuming that they have not started
Brenda Brewer:Starting Momentarily
Glenn McKnight:now i hear something
Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO):5 mins ago Stephan
Glenn McKnight:ah hear something now
Gordon Chillcott:I still hear background from somewhere.
Javier Rúa-Jovet:got no mic, I'm at dentist !
CW:No echo here CW
Gisella Gruber:@ McTIm - Rosa is not on the AC
Brenda Brewer:Please state your name when speaking not only transcription purposes but to allow the interpreters to identify you on the other language channel
McTim:ok, thanks Gisellla
Wafa Dahmani:please mute our speakers
Wale Bakare:Hi all, good afternoon
R R KRISHNAA:Hi to all
carlos dionisio aguirre ADIAR:fully agree with second position
Vanda Scartezini:sorry late... carnival here...
Aída Noblia:si se escucha
Javier Rúa-Jovet:no nick!
Jeff Neuman:we can hear through adobe though
Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO):we here you Tom, not Nick
Wafa Dahmani:we can hear
Gisella Gruber:Nick Thorne speaking
Glenn McKnight:It odd that this recomm 7 was suggested when the survey failed to include any questions on Working groups
avri doria (observer):while shooting a messenger is to be frowned on. criticizing one that has not managed to gain a wide enough perspective or which interpretted that message in a skewed manner, is often ok.
avri doria (observer):emasculation? hmmm
Alan Greenberg:Change from Westlake report wsa SOLELY done by a Board committee with no input from At-Large Leadership.
Dev Anand Teelucksingh:+1 Avri
Javier Rúa-Jovet:in a meritocratic volunteer system those volunteers that work hardest and longest become and remain leaders. period.
Eduardo Diaz:But.. we are doing this now. One ATLAS /5yrsand regionalls accordingly to ICANN meeting rotation. We are doing this now
Javier Rúa-Jovet:I'm new and
Dev Anand Teelucksingh:Indeed Javier, true for any volunteer organsisations
carlos dionisio aguirre ADIAR:I think . could be add the anual regional meetings to five year ATLAS
Javier Rúa-Jovet:I'm new and I recognize this clearly. I don't perceive arbitrary entrenched elites. I perceive hard working and well informed volunteers
avri doria (observer):yes, the idea of rotating authors is a good one, especially when there is a large pool of people who can write sufficiently well, and who are willing to contribute that kind of time. many aa qualified textworker, one who can produce text on command, are busy supporting themselves with that skill and not gernally avaialble to such a pool unless unemployed.
carlos dionisio aguirre ADIAR:great comment.
jeff neuman:Recommending use of auction funds is contrary to the Cross Community Working Group process ongoing now.
Alan Greenberg:Board is out of the loop in this process. This ignores established ICANN processes
Javier Rúa-Jovet:I like the rotating meetings
CW:Recc. #15 Already done. Correct?
Becky Burr:@ Alan?
R R KRISHNAA:agree with recommendation 11
avri doria (observer):Jeff, the recommendation is not really out of place. implementing it before the resolution on how to treat such funds before the process complete is.
Alan Greenberg:Becky, Q about 15?
Alberto Soto:How do you know that the drains are not doing external diffusion?
Vanda Scartezini:evcome Jeff
Alberto Soto:Sorry, Ralos
jeff neuman:@Avri - Well have to agree to disagree on this one. The recommendation could have been for a greater more stable funding source. But to point to the auction funds explicitly at this stage is in my view inappropriate
Milton Mueller:agree Jeff
carlos dionisio aguirre ADIAR:this recomendation mean a very difficult task, specially lasts points
Alan Greenberg:REc 15 presumes Board has a decisional role right now, and it also presumes that auction funds should b eused for regular oprational funding which I suspect will not go over really well.
Alberto Soto:How many individual members do you expect to join?
Milton Mueller:money is actually not what At Large is lacking
Stephane van gelder:I applaude ITEMS for suggesting solutions that seek to ensure greater end-user engagement in At Large. This in my view is currently very difficult for end-users to do.
Wale Bakare:@Alberto, maybe over billion internet users?
avri doria (observer):so staff, the organization, decides who may be a At Large leader?
Eduardo Diaz:Problem here is how you keep balance in the regions
Alan Greenberg:REcognizigng active users is not an implementation detail. It is THE core problem in the EMM. And should this really be aSTAFF function deciding who is active and who is not?
Alberto Soto:I also applaud the intentions of ITEMS, but not some of its recommendations, are not substantiated or are poorly substantiated.
Javier Rúa-Jovet:don't see NOMCOM appointments (like me!) in either side
Dev Anand Teelucksingh:@Wale - extremely unrealistic - there are many persons that drive cars, but have no experience or desire to learn, understand or maintain cars.
Lianna Galstyan:+1 Dev
Javier Rúa-Jovet:o yes sorry NC oooos
Glenn McKnight:sound is choppy
Eduardo Diaz:@JAvier: wait until they talk about the rappoteours
Stephane van gelder:I agree Alberto, and see this EMM as a bold first step towards trying to solve the end-user representation problem in At Large. But it needs to be refined...
Alfredo Calderon:Loosing audio. Difficulty following ideas.
Dev Anand Teelucksingh:audio is indeed choppy
avri doria (observer):yeah Nomcom got the black box inidicator
jeff neuman:All - have to drop, but I will listen to recording. Thanks everyone.
Javier Rúa-Jovet:@avri ok yep thx
Alberto Soto:@Wale, I want ITEMS to tell me that, and on which their calculation is based. Or is there no calculation ??
carlos dionisio aguirre ADIAR:yeah. audio is bad. will be better to hear the records. thanks . bye.
Eduardo Diaz:EMM is as messy as this diagram
Rinalia Abdul Rahim:would be interesting to get NomCom input on the recommendations.
Javier Rúa-Jovet:@rinalia +1
Wale Bakare:@Dev, thanks. But if not all but many drivers have prior knowledge about driving, roads, safety issues relating to driving on the road. I guess the context you are alluding is applicable to Pilots, for airplanes?
CW:We ned a saveable version of the .ppt slides. There is too much detail to address in realtime on screen. CW
Glenn McKnight:The arts infographics are more confusing
Stephane van gelder:Rinalia, I think it's too early to solicit NomCom input. The recs need to be polished first. For example the question of how a participant's active status is determined, and who determines it, is key.
R R KRISHNAA:the changes proposed require more detail discussion
Javier Rúa-Jovet:yes I need this ppt and can't download in my iphone
Eduardo Diaz:Hwo do you define active ALM and how do you make sure that not all ALMs come from one country
Glenn McKnight:@javier the infographic has imputs but no outputs
avri doria (observer):Rinalia, which Nomcom? since there is no continuity of proecess among nomcom instantiations, what can the current nomcom say about the ability or interest of future nomcom? does seem a question for the nomcom review, though.
carlos dionisio aguirre ADIAR:agee krishnaa
Eduardo Diaz:This is the illusion of change
Alberto Soto:Synthesizing, how many millions of users today want to participate and have the necessary knowledge?
carlos dionisio aguirre ADIAR:clap clap @ eduardo
avri doria (observer):do individual EMMs have the same vote as an ALS?
Stephane van gelder:Avri, any NomCom should have the ability to determine opinions. Your statement is like saying we can't ask the Board what it thinks because Board members are subject to change...
Larisa Gurnick:@McTim - your audio is choppy, hard to hear. Can you pause and see if you can get a better connection?
Rinalia Abdul Rahim:avri, in my view it doesn't matter which NomCom. it is about feasibility and challenges related to implementation.
Milton Mueller:good to encourage AL
Milton Mueller:look outward
R R KRISHNAA:EMM is a big change proposed. More light needs to thrown on this.
Alan Greenberg:Issue with NomCom is that Liaisons really need some knowledge of the organizations they are linking, and nomcom appointees generally are brought in to have new blood and with minimal klnowledge of the details of ICANN.
avri doria (observer):( i have yet to read this version, so am asking ininformed questions. just curious )
Stephane van gelder:Alan, the question re NomCom was the committe members themselves, not the NCAs...
Stephane van gelder:committee
Dev Anand Teelucksingh:@Wale - no, the idea that somehow all end users will join because they are impacted - going back to the car analogy - how many drivers were involved or get involved in the rules that govern them? Very minnisule -only the ones that care enough about the function of cars and advocating for changes - rules against drunk driving, baby car seats, etc - a very small subset
Javier Rúa-Jovet:hey!!! i had a bit more info than minimal!
CW:I am not against term limites, but only on the condition that they apply to ALL SOAC, including Board Seats. CW
Javier Rúa-Jovet:I'm kind of against term limits when somebody is doing good work
carlos dionisio aguirre ADIAR:who control the random selection ?
Stephane van gelder:There already are term limits for most ICANN groups.
Stephane van gelder:Board included
Eduardo Diaz:Are this same election recommendationa going to be done in other parts of the organization?
avri doria (observer):CW, The Board does have term limits, at least for non liaisions. though it is long enough to seem like a lifetime.
Alan Greenberg:@STephane. report is recmmending that NomCOm name people who will become Liaisons from ALAC to other ICANN orgs. That requires knowledge of the two orgs, which NomCOm appointees do not typically have. Question is whether a Nomom could locate people to appoint who have this prior ICCANN knowledge, and whether that negates NomComs role of bringing in new blood.
carlos dionisio aguirre ADIAR:the random selection need a clearly mechanism of transparency.
Vanda Scartezini:how infrmation from many groups goes back to Ralos'members if the raporteurs send it directly to ALAC? will be all meembers discuss the raporteur information together with ALAC, or they will be out of the knowledge process?
Milton Mueller:Carlos: random selections are typically
avri doria (observer): i have no problem with letting the fates decide on who is the leader. but that assume that all candidates are eqqually qualified ( for some defintion of qualified )
Eduardo Diaz:IS it used in ICANN?
Milton Mueller:controlled by randomness ð
Javier Rúa-Jovet:I'm against randomness
Eduardo Diaz:Sounds like quantum mechanics
Glenn McKnight:Was it the community that suggested the EMM?
Alan Greenberg:WE could GREATLY reduce of NomCOm if they too use a randome selection in making choices.
Javier Rúa-Jovet:I'm for meritocracy and rewarding hard work with harder work
Alan Greenberg:REduce WROK of NomCom....
Glenn McKnight:Randomness interesting take...
carlos dionisio aguirre ADIAR:I think in this case need more transparency. or at least a mechanism to appeal
avri doria (observer):Alan, great idea, if it is good for At Large it shuld be good for the entire set of communiy selections.
Javier Rúa-Jovet:fuzzy logic at a distance
Roberto Gaetano:Does this apply also to SO-selected Board members?
McTim:Random selection is already part of the AT Large Board selection process (if needed)
Dev Anand Teelucksingh:I don't see how this random selection prevents poistions being filled by individuals that are influential, affluent, or from the Anglo Saxon West
Milton Mueller:yes. the process of vetting nominees and voting on them in At Large is extremely manipulated and political. details need the be worked out by I support the general thrust of this recommendation
Alan Greenberg:WE could also start using random selection to resolve differences bewtween parties in Policy Processes.
Wale Bakare:@Javier, exactly. Not far away from robot software mechanism
Javier Rúa-Jovet:@alan +1
Glenn McKnight:Ah here is the rub...
Stephane van gelder:;) Glenn
Milton Mueller:if you don't like random selections n how about having truly open, one member one vote elections instead of the top down selection process you have now?
Eduardo Diaz:RAppoteours = ALS
Glenn McKnight:Confused Item7 wants WG to be abolished now we are talking reps of WG's?
Dev Anand Teelucksingh:Indeed, Alan, this random selection could reduce the work of Nomcom - even freeeing up the need for Nomcom in the logic presented is to be accepted
Eduardo Diaz:Again, the illusion of chabge
Carlton Samuels:@Alan: Maybe the NomCom might actually benefit from seriously looking at this selection approach!
ken stubbs:Most important re: nomcom the appointees need to understand that their principal responsibility is to ICANN. All nomcom members, regardless who appoints them have a fiduciary responsibility to appoint appluicants who have skill sets which provide the greatest benefit to ICANN, the corp, (not the appointee who best advocates the positions of the interest group the nomcom member )
Stephane van gelder:If NomCom has less work to make ALAC selections, should there also be less ALAC representation on the NomCom itself?
ken stubbs:+1 stephane
McTim:@Stephane, NomCom will have slightly MORE work in this model
Carlton Samuels:@Stephane: I think that IS the implication!
George Sadowsky:Stephane, there are five ALAC nominees on the nominating committee
Stephane van gelder:Council of Elders feels like a copout by ITEMS!
Khaled Koubaa:Yes e hear you but you have an Echo Rosa
ken stubbs:there s/b term limitations on council of elders appointees
Glenn McKnight:@Stephane on one hand they critize a
Stephane van gelder:+1 Ken
McTim:Why copout? It is used to good effect in AfriNIC. It is quite useful.
Glenn McKnight:repeat offenders then suggest a council of elders
Alan Greenberg:@Stephane Proposal calls for more work for NomCom, not less. Far more detailed criteria for appointtes to ALAC and NomCom also now eveluates the At-Large Board Member EoIs
McTim:I wouldn't say "far more" work, just a bit more...
Stephane van gelder:@McTim: you are suggesting there is not enough turnover in ALAC Leadership, then you go and give past Leaders 2 seats!
Eduardo Diaz:How you keep regional balance without capture?
Alfredo Calderon:<QUESTION>Who certifies members?<QUESTION>
Vanda Scartezini:if each representant of actual ALS will become individuals , for instance, and become rapourteur due its knowledge for instance, nothing will change?
R R KRISHNAA:Selection must be based on good representation of all combined geographical regions, expertise of the individuals and clear assessment of the individuals as to how much the individual can contribute and deliver the results. Fresh and innovative ideas must be welcomed.
Stephane van gelder:Thanks Alan, I have to admit the full proposal isn't 100% clear to me yet ;)
Glenn McKnight:NOMCOM more detailed work on ALAC appointees isn't a bad idea. More rigerous work will produce a higher productive and engaged ALAC
avri doria (observer):while intended, perhaps, to be a sinecure, it will in time become yet another power base.
Stephane van gelder:+1 Glen
Glenn McKnight:We have seen some inconsistency with the appointees
McTim:I see your confusion, if you read the report, there are 6 people on thie CoE, it is a one meeting per year obligation on the part of the CoE, and CoE is also term limited
carlos dionisio aguirre ADIAR:what will be the items measured by metrics ?
McTim:so not a blank check
Glenn McKnight:OUr current ALAC member from NOMCOM is superb
McTim:but I see how you could think that it is questionable
avri doria (observer):when does the comment period end?
McTim:post CPH avri
Alfredo Calderon:<QUESTION> Rappouterurs might not necessarily represent all regions. How this be done to avoid excessive participation from a specific region?<QUESTION>
Ariel Liang:public comment period ends on 24 March 2017
Harold Arcos:@Avri https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.icann.org_public-2Dcomments_atlarge-2Dreview-2Ddraft-2Dreport-2D2017-2D02-2D01-2Den&d=DwIFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=kbiQDH54980u4nTPfwdloDLY6-6F24x0ArAvhdeDvvc&m=iA9-4mV4z-qpGRSgTbvYu7iL-mj8ZdWH5gSFMBPLU14&s=MeZwDVx4Z1L6A89fAYELTS5RiMTRV-Bh1UwwSBlqo7A&e=
avri doria (observer):Thanks Ariel
Ariel Liang:no problem
Harold Arcos:Time line At-Large Review: Draft Report https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.icann.org_public-2Dcomments_atlarge-2Dreview-2Ddraft-2Dreport-2D2017-2D02-2D01-2Den&d=DwIFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=kbiQDH54980u4nTPfwdloDLY6-6F24x0ArAvhdeDvvc&m=iA9-4mV4z-qpGRSgTbvYu7iL-mj8ZdWH5gSFMBPLU14&s=MeZwDVx4Z1L6A89fAYELTS5RiMTRV-Bh1UwwSBlqo7A&e=
Alan Greenberg:Need to be able to see hands
Carlton Samuels:I cannot help but notice this fatal presumption: that there is a whole group of able folks lining up --l ike an Apple marketing event - to join up and put in as much as 40 hours a week! Despite what might have been heard, overnment mules are scarce!
Carlton Samuels:And when I say 'able' I mean folks who are work ready!
Glenn McKnight:@Carelton you are right the new job descriptions doubles up the work load. for what?
Javier Rúa-Jovet:@carlton +1
Gordon Chillcott:@Carktib - agreed. And as you keep trying to remind us all - we are volunteers. We have other things that take up our time.
Milton Mueller:so true CW. Board wanted to limit individuals influence
Gisella Gruber:CW = Christopher Wilkinson
Carlton Samuels:Individuals get work done. The indicative problem we have is to find work-ready individuals to advance the At-Large agenda in ICANN on a regular basis. Solve that problem and we all can rest easy.
Gisella Gruber:Pleas state your names when speaking!
Gisella Gruber:Tijani Ben Jemaa speaking
Milton Mueller:Carleton - that is a problem all Icann entities face
Dev Anand Teelucksingh:Indeed Carlton
Carlton Samuels:@Milton: Yessir, those of us who show up for WGs know that.
Vanda Scartezini:+ 1 Carlton
Carlton Samuels:You just need to look at the WG lists going back 10 years! Most of the people I know outside of the At-Large are from GNSO/ccNSO WGs. And I tell there is very little turnover there!
Milton Mueller:how do you make it easier to find "work ready individuals" by forcing them to join an arbitrary ALS before they can work? is this not an obvious barrier to entry?
ken stubbs:better now with echo
Carlton Samuels:@Milton: Yes, that IS a barrier to entry and must be removed. Some RALOs have already done so.
Stephane van gelder:Why don't you go to the next person in the list?
Stephane van gelder:And ask people to be brief ;)
ken stubbs:you need to limiut length of comments or you will never get thru the que
Rinalia Abdul Rahim:QUESTION for ITEMS: you indicated that you find the At-Large NOT YET accountable to its stakeholders. can you clarify whether you include the ALAC in your category of At-Large or is it separated?
Carlton Samuels:MY continuing interest is work ready individuals. Any strategem/ruse/contraption that delivers more of those is the one I am happy to embrace.
ken stubbs:cant hear person
Vanda Scartezini:ken - just the translator
Siranush Vardanyan:connectivity issues, sorry
Stephane van gelder:But it's the SAME people rotating!
Glenn McKnight:I don't understand why this isn't captioned
Brenda Brewer:Time Check: 15 Minutes remaining
Eduardo Diaz:@Glenn - $$
Vanda Scartezini:good question Glenn
Silvia Vivanco:@ Glenn the Captioning Pilot phase II is now complete with 6 calls held as per the TOR of the pilot
Carlton Samuels:@Stephane: That is true. As Milton pointed out, this is happening everywhere.
Stephane van gelder:Carlton. Everywhere? Where? Give examples pls
Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO):that is a question MSSI Glenn this webinar is an ITEMS one arranged by them
Glenn McKnight:Only two terms for me
Alan Greenberg:There are no recommendations related to who to send as NomCom delegates. Only on who NomCom selectes
George Sadowsky:Ken is absolutely correct.
Khaled Koubaa:It seems I have a problem with my headset - My question is on personal capacity : I would be happy to hear more from ITEMS more on how exactly the EMM will accelerate the policy workflow ? It still not clear for me if this is the case
Glenn McKnight:@Ken we need to look beyond our community and think of the best person
Carlton Samuels:@Ken: Agree. NonCom appointees should be those person is one who would have a wider view of ICANN in the world and situate the candidates in that framework.
CW:@Ken: I agree in general, but the same principles should apply to all SO participation in NomCom. e.g. how on earth did NomCom produce a Board that could approve the new gTLD program as we have experienced it?
Eduardo Diaz:The EMM is based on the notion that theer are many internet users linning up to volunteer to work on ICANN policy work. Good luck with that!
Stephane van gelder:LOL Eduardo!
Dev Anand Teelucksingh:Indeed, its a baffling premise
Carlton Samuels:@Eduardo: As I said, ICANN is characterised like it is the next cool Apple product with people sleep ing at sidewalks to get in!
Lars Hoffmann:Please note there are also a workshop with ITEMS scheduled in Copenhagen:Workshop with ITEMS International during ICANN58 on Wednesday, 15 March, 201715:15-16:45; Ball B3
Glenn McKnight:Thanks Lars
Vanda Scartezini:how the knowledge goes back from the rapporteur to the region persons belongs? ALAC will the the only place where knowledge about ICANN will flow? QUESTION. ( I will make this comment too in the public comment
ken stubbs:@cw many of the problems you have referred to can be attributed to implementation problems and delays caused by large interests lobbying and putting pressure on staff to implement unnecessary procedures.
Wafa Dahmani:Thank you Lars
Harold Arcos:Questioning the relationships that are naturally built within At-Large and their relationship to the votes for positions in the structure is like questioning the Lobby that is naturally built into a Working Structure like ICANN. I think the important thing is to develop the practices necessary for User Interests to enter and be reflected in each Policy because this will impact everyone as an RFC.
ken stubbs:emm must not have interviewed many former nomcomm members who were not from alac. this could be an inherent weakness in study
Stephane van gelder:Appreciate your answer a lot Tim, thanks
Carlton Samuels:So far as I know - and absent matters like language and associated services, interest, time to commit, a base of knowledge - there is presently NO barrier to remotely participate in GNSO/ccNSO chartered WGs.
CW:@ Tim: Oh! As an individual member my prionciple objective would be to influence the selection of Board members.
Larisa Gurnick:@ITEMS - only 5 minutes remaining
Harold Arcos:Indeed @Carlton
ken stubbs:h@cw how would you propose to influence and what outcomes would be your goals ?
Khaled Koubaa:I think accelerating At-Large community policy workflow is the most important target. I am still not convinced that the EMM will accelerate it
Glenn McKnight:@Carelton the devil is the details how to make it happen
Tijani BEN JEMAA:They are community
ken stubbs:+1 glenn
Julie Hammer:THAT IS NOT TRUE. SSAC HAS MANY INTERNAL WORKIGN GROUPS
Tijani BEN JEMAA:they are appointed by the board
Alan Greenberg:SSAC does indeed form internal WG to address specific topis
Rinalia Abdul Rahim:SSAC has work parties working on different issues
Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO):yup
CW:@Ken: precisely, the individual memeber is too remote from electoral decisions that matter.
Stephane van gelder:Thanks everyone for such a rich discussion.
avri doria (observer):facts, so bothersome sometimes.
Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO):thanks all bye for now
Lianna Galstyan:thanks for this webinar, bye
Alberto Soto:Thanks, bye!!!
Vanda Scartezini:thank you all from ITEMs
Eduardo Diaz:THnaks for the webminar
Harold Arcos:A very rich discussion
Carlton Samuels:Bye LL. tHANKS
Dev Anand Teelucksingh:take care all
Aída Noblia:Buenos días, tardes, noche . Bye all
Gordon Chillcott:Bye, all. And thanks.