Members: Alan Greenberg, Avri Doria, Benedicto Fonseca Filho, Cheryl Langdon-Orr, David McAuley, Finn Petersen, Fiona Asonga, Jordan Carter, Jorge Villa, Kavouss Arasteh, Leon Sanchez, Michael Abejuela, Olga Cavalli, Robin Gross, Sebastien Bachollet, Steve DelBianco, Thomas Rickert, Tijani Ben Jemaa (18)
Participants: Anne Aikman-Scalese, Barrack Otieno, Brian Scarpelli, Christopher Wilkinson, Chris Wilson, Daniel Nanghaka, Erich Schweighofer, Farzaneh Badii, Greg Shatan, Griffin Barnett, Herb Waye, Julf Helsingius, Krishna Seeburn, Jorge Cancio, Michael Karnicolas, Niels ten Oever, Philip Corwin, Ricardo Holmquist, Stephen Deerhake, Tatiana Tropina, Thiago Braz Jardim Oliveira (21)
Observers/Guests: Vyacheslav Erokhin
Staff: Bernard Turcotte, Berry Cobb, Brenda Brewer, Karen Mulberry, Marika Konings, Nathalie Vergnolle, Patrick Dodson, Yvette Guigneaux
Apologies: Rosalía Morales, Izumi Okutani, Julie Hammer, Paul Rosenzweig, Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix, Parminder Singh
** If your name is missing from attendance or apology, please send note to acct-staff@icann.org **
Transcript
Recording
Agenda
1. Introduction, update to SOIs, reminder on standards of behavior
2. Review of Agenda
3. Administration
4. Legal Committee Update
5. Second reading of the draft recommendation of the Ombuds sub- group
6. First reading of the final recommendations of the Transparency sub- group.
7. Second reading of the final recommendations of the Human Rights sub-group.
8. First Reading of the draft recommendation of the Jurisdiction sub- group.
9. AOB
10. Next Plenaries
Raw Caption Notes
Decisions:
- Ombudsman second reading of the draft recommendations– Approved, no objections can proceed to public comment.
- Transparency first reading of the final recommendations – Approved no objections. Can proceed to second reading.
- HR-FOI second reading of the final recommendations – Approved no objections. Can be included in the final WS2 recommendations.
- Jurisdiction first reading of draft recommendations – Approved with Brazil and Parminder objecting. Co-Chairs will consider way forward to second reading and post their decision to the list.
Action Items:
- Staff to prepare Ombuds draft recommendation for public consultation
- Staff to schedule second reading of the Transparency final recommendations for 27 October plenary.
- Co-Chairs to consider various suggestions made as to the way forward for the Jurisdiction report and post their decision to the list.
Requests:
- (none)
Documents
AC Chat
Brenda Brewer: (10/18/2017 13:22) Good day! Welcome to CCWG Accountability Plenary Meeting #24 on 18 October 2017 @ 19:00 UTC.
Brenda Brewer: (13:22) This meeting will be recorded. Please mute your phone when not speaking by pressing *6 (star 6). *6 will also unmute.
Brenda Brewer: (13:23) Please state your name when speaking for captioning/transcription. Thank you!
Olga Cavalli: (13:44) Hi Brenda Hi Kavouss
Kavouss Arasteh: (13:51) Hi dear future GAC ......
Brenda Brewer: (13:51) Hello Olga! Hello all!
Leon Sanchez: (13:52) helllo everyone!
Bernard Turcotte - ICANN: (13:53) hello all
Bernard Turcotte - ICANN: (13:58) Please mute when not speaking
Yvette Guigneaux: (13:58) Kavouss - were working on getting you dialed in right now
Julf Helsingius: (13:58) Hello everyone
Brenda Brewer: (13:59) Kavouss, operator is not able to reach you. Please private chat your phone number today for dial out.
Cheryl Langdon-Orr: (14:00) hi everyone
Cheryl Langdon-Orr: (14:04) small update to my SOI... recently have been appointed as a Co-Chair to the GNSO Subsequent Procedures for New gTLDs PDP by the GNSO Council
Cheryl Langdon-Orr: (14:05) that is covered in the Expected Standards of Behaviour I would think... already referred to
Michael Karanicolas: (14:09) I'll be there for transparency
Niels ten Oever: (14:09) I'll be there
Kavouss Arasteh: (14:09) Cheryl
Cheryl Langdon-Orr: (14:09) we will be there from ACSO Act
Kavouss Arasteh: (14:10) But it required to be fully respected pls kindly let us to express our duissatisfaction , if you kindly so allow
Kavouss Arasteh: (14:10) Cheryl ,
Robin Gross: (14:11) applications for dog treats are also being accepted ;-)
Jordan Carter: (14:11) hello all, now on Adobe
Kavouss Arasteh: (14:11) Fortunately you have been fully respected as no one insulted you but they did in our respect then pls kindly allow us to make our statement
Kavouss Arasteh: (14:14) Dear Cheryl, did you receive my note?
Cheryl Langdon-Orr: (14:15) I am paying attention to our meeting...
Kavouss Arasteh: (14:15) Before you do so, we need to pay attention to our dignity?
Leon Sanchez: (14:16) Kavouss, nobody is being offensive and your statement is on record and noted by the Co-Chairs
Kavouss Arasteh: (14:17) But Cheryl ,unexpectedly< intervened in ignoring my statement
Jordan Carter: (14:17) The independent review that Sebastien is mentioning is worth reading if you have not read it yet
Leon Sanchez: (14:18) Kavouss, I beg to disagree. In my view Cheryl received your message, as everyone else in this chat, but she’s concentrated in the substantive issues of this call
Cheryl Langdon-Orr: (14:19) Thank you Sebastian
Cheryl Langdon-Orr: (14:25) indeed Jordan
Cheryl Langdon-Orr: (14:25) still need input via Public Comment
Greg Shatan 2: (14:26) Is the suggestion that GAC members should be outside the reach of the Ombudsman? I don’t quite understand.
Kavouss Arasteh: (14:26) Some participants are just to indirectly disagree with any legitimate intervention by just expressing their thank to chair or rapporteur
Kavouss Arasteh: (14:28) comments made by a participant to my two intervention were unexpected
Cheryl Langdon-Orr: (14:36) thanks Michael
Krishna Seeburn - Kris: (14:36) thanks
Steve DelBianco [GNSO-CSG]: (14:37) Question: are there any recommendations where the group had consensus, but decided NOT to make the recommendation because ICANN Legal was opposed?
Herb Waye Ombuds: (14:38) Greetings all... sorry for being late
Cheryl Langdon-Orr: (14:38) hi Herb
Robin Gross [GNSO - NCSG]: (14:38) It seems inappropriate for ICANN legal to block transparency at ICANN legal.
Steve DelBianco [GNSO-CSG]: (14:39) As you are aware, the CCWG can make recommendations that are not supported by ICANN legal. And consensus recmomendations will be difficult for the board to reject
Robin Gross [GNSO - NCSG]: (14:39) When the rest of us don't agree with an issue, we get to file a minority report. Why not here?
Cheryl Langdon-Orr: (14:39) fyi the Ombuds WT report has gone through its second reading
Herb Waye Ombuds: (14:40) Thanks Cheryl
Steve DelBianco [GNSO-CSG]: (14:40) thank you, Michael
Cheryl Langdon-Orr: (14:41) obviously you will listen to the recording Herb as there was some comments and questions
Herb Waye Ombuds: (14:42) ok
Christopher Wilkinson: (14:44) Leaving the call. Connectivity here does not support the meeting. Lost connection four times already thisevening.
Kavouss Arasteh: (14:44) Let usmakes it clear that the comments which I made were my personal views and no one else's views including GAC
Jordan Carter: (14:45) yep Kavouss - I am sorry if my comment that referred to your views or those of any of your GAC colleagues seemed to imply you were speaking on the GAC's behalf. Let the record show that they were your views only.
Kavouss Arasteh: (14:45) tKS
jorge villa (ASO): (14:47) is there anyone speaking? I lost audio
Jorge Cancio (GAC Switzerland): (14:47) Thanks to Niels, Greg and David - as you may well understand I just may agree to this text on my personal behalf - hope this will convince all others
Jordan Carter: (14:47) yes Leon has been speaking, Jorge Villa
Jordan Carter: (14:47) and before that Niels
Niels ten Oever 2: (14:47) Thank you Kavouss - it really was team work !
Bernard Turcotte - ICANN: (14:49) Staff error
David McAuley (RySG): (14:49) good catch Greg, looks redundant
Jorge Cancio (GAC Switzerland): (14:50) staff is fired ;P
Bernard Turcotte - ICANN: (14:50) Oh no
jorge villa (ASO): (14:51) Thanks Jordan, I'll restart my connection
David McAuley (RySG): (14:51) and then rehired, ;-)
Jorge Cancio (GAC Switzerland): (14:51) with better wages :-)
Bernard Turcotte - ICANN: (14:51) Oh ok
Bernard Turcotte - ICANN: (14:51) ;-))
David McAuley (RySG): (14:51) +1 @Jorge
Jorge Cancio (GAC Switzerland): (14:54) as I said some days ago on list (without too much success, I fear) I feel it is unfortunate if we cannot carve out some extra time to give the draft recommendation about tailored immunities from Brazil and others a quick extra-round, if they wish to do so
Olga Cavalli 2: (14:58) + 1 to Jorge´s comment
avri doria: (15:01) what happens to WS2 items that are not completed?
Jorge Cancio (GAC Switzerland): (15:01) @Thomas: in the past we have worked on weekends when we needed to - maybe it is worth doing it again if needed if with this we can go through draft proposed recommendations endorsed by those dissenting
avri doria: (15:02) thanks, heard th answer
Cheryl Langdon-Orr: (15:02) more work is desirable on this... yes, but I think we have completed our WS1 mandate
Bernard Turcotte - ICANN: (15:03) WS2?
Cheryl Langdon-Orr: (15:05) the mandate from WS1 for our WS2 focus
Thomas Rickert, Co-Chair: (15:05) @Jorge - given the upcoming ICANN meeting and associated travel, I am afraid that this is logistically impossible
Cheryl Langdon-Orr: (15:06) sorry if not clear Bernie I was ending on another icann call
Alan Greenberg: (15:06) May I have a short AOB item?
Thomas Rickert, Co-Chair: (15:08) Yes, Alan. As time permits,.
Kavouss Arasteh: (15:10) tHANKS FOR CLARIFICATION
Steve DelBianco [GNSO CSG]: (15:12) this is an excellent recommendation
David McAuley (RySG): (15:17) I mentioned my abstention on the gov. law issue on the last jurisdiction subgroup call, noting my strong support for status quo. I want to reiterate here my abstention/non-objection in the interest of moving this recommendation and report forward in the spirit of compromise. I respect the views of those who support this report and those who differ - and want to thank all for their hard work on jurisdiction, especially Greg for leading on this challenging topic.
Steve DelBianco [GNSO CSG]: (15:20) @Greg -- you said the subgroup recommends Menu. What are teh 2nd and 3rd preferences of the subgroup?
Philip Corwin: (15:21) Under the status quo approach, what governing law has actually been applied to any dispute between ICANN and a contracted party?
David McAuley (RySG): (15:22) I did - I'll call it 'catch of the day'
David McAuley (RySG): (15:22) but I see the menu approach and stand by my comment above
Steve DelBianco [GNSO CSG]: (15:22) but to be clear,under Menu approach a Ry operator could select an option that matches the "status quo", right?
Jorge Cancio (GAC Switzerland): (15:22) right, Steve
David McAuley (RySG): (15:25) the subgroup reviewed a lot of litigatioin and this was not an issue in most cases
David McAuley (RySG): (15:25) at least as I recall
Philip Corwin: (15:26) Thx for the explanation
Jordan Carter: (15:26) Please mute your microphones if you are not speaking
David McAuley (RySG): (15:26) BTW, out litigation reviews are available on the Jurisdiction subgroup wiki
David McAuley (RySG): (15:26) our, not out
Greg Shatan: (15:29) I am muted.
Bernard Turcotte - ICANN: (15:29) Time Check - 30 Minutes left in call
Jorge Cancio (GAC Switzerland): (15:31) we should use any possibilities to broaden the consensus, by devoting some extra time to looking specifically to the draft recommendation Brazil would like to see discussed
Olga Cavalli: (15:32) + 1 to Jorge´s comments
Olga Cavalli: (15:40) If there is a need for more time to review this important issue this should be considered
Jordan Carter: (15:41) there won't be a renewal past June 2018, I am very sure of that ...
Jorge Cancio (GAC Switzerland): (15:41) I urge the co-chairs to introduce flexibility for this key issue as regards the timing - otherwise deadlines may lead us to dead-ends on critical aspects - a defined, clear extra timeline, could help us all to broaden common understanding and consensus
Cheryl Langdon-Orr: (15:42) or....perhaps the points of concern to some, might be yet taken up in a new (or related) focussed and supported efforts
Olga Cavalli: (15:42) +1 to Jorge´s comments, if there is not a renewal there should be other way to address these concerns
Jordan Carter: (15:42) nothing to add to Thomas' comments
Cheryl Langdon-Orr: (15:42) which is what Thomas just outlined
Kavouss Arasteh: (15:43) i have been muted
Cheryl Langdon-Orr: (15:43) we heard you
avri doria: (15:43) i heard him
Greg Shatan: (15:43) Kavouss, we could hear you.
Brenda Brewer: (15:43) We are connecting Kavouss' audio again.
Brenda Brewer: (15:43) please stand by
Leon Sanchez: (15:44) Chartering Organizations granted an extension on the condition we finished the work under the proposed timeline back then
Olga Cavalli: (15:44) @Thomas please consider the text in the chat; I have no mic now
Leon Sanchez: (15:44) And my recollection is that they told us this was a one time grant with no room for a new extension
Jorge Cancio (GAC Switzerland): (15:46) I would propose that co-chairs and Greg i consultation with the Subgroup (especially the dissent holders) look into such timing options
Bernard Turcotte - ICANN: (15:46) Time check - 14 minutes left in call
Olga Cavalli: (15:47) +1 to Jorge´s proposal
Anne Aikman-Scalese (IPC): (15:48) Could staff please give us a link to Greg's slides? (Sorry came into the meeting late.)
Bernard Turcotte - ICANN: (15:49) @Anne will distribute after this call
Anne Aikman-Scalese (IPC): (15:49) Thank you.
Bernard Turcotte - ICANN: (15:51) yes
David McAuley (RySG): (15:51) we hear
Cheryl Langdon-Orr: (15:56) that makes good sense to me Greg
Farzaneh Badii: (15:56) hi. sorry I'm late ... umm perhaps too laate
Cheryl Langdon-Orr: (15:58) we're about to end Farzi, good progress though
Jordan Carter: (15:58) the second reading face to face in AD
avri doria: (15:59) perhaps, given the current status of the impasse, sending it out to public comment with the dissenting opinion would be a good way to get communit comment that may be helpful.
Jordan Carter: (15:59) I have to leave the call, another meeting beginning now
Farzaneh Badii: (15:59) oh I like F2F second reading. I hope I can make it
Cheryl Langdon-Orr: (15:59) I thought that was as late as we could go Jordan
Jordan Carter: (15:59) public comments as Avri suggests might work
Olga Cavalli: (16:00) +1 to kavouss comments
Kavouss Arasteh: (16:00) Public commentas may help but not completwely
Jordan Carter: (16:00) good bye all
Anne Aikman-Scalese (IPC): (16:00) @AVri - good idea to get community input on both approaches.
Cheryl Langdon-Orr: (16:00) bye
Alan Greenberg: (16:01) Don't leave yet.. Still an AOB from me
Cheryl Langdon-Orr: (16:02) my ð was to Jordan
Jorge Cancio (GAC Switzerland): (16:02) for the record, I support the two recs, with the plea that we strive for broader consensus as stated before
Stephen Deerhake (.as): (16:02) Alan, the suspense of your AOB is killing me...
Robin Gross: (16:03) Thanks, Greg
Anne Aikman-Scalese (IPC): (16:03) Thank you Greg.
Anne Aikman-Scalese (IPC): (16:03) Congrats Tijani!
Olga Cavalli: (16:04) Well done Tijani!!! and great work Leon!!!
Cheryl Langdon-Orr: (16:04) ððð
David McAuley (RySG): (16:04) Thanks Alan, good news, congrats to Leon and Tijani
Jorge Cancio (GAC Switzerland): (16:04) thanks to Leon! gracias! and welcome Tijani as co-chair!
Philip Corwin: (16:04) Bye all. Congrats to Greg and the entire Jurisdiction subteam.
Farzaneh Badii: (16:04) so Thomas is the last one standing :)
Niels ten Oever 2: (16:04) Another succesful transition upcoming!
Leon Sanchez: (16:04) Thanks to all. It’s been a privilege and a honor to serve with you all!
Herb Waye Ombuds: (16:04) bye all
Bernard Turcotte - ICANN: (16:04) bye all
Cheryl Langdon-Orr: (16:04) bye ð to you all
Niels ten Oever 2: (16:04) bye all
David McAuley (RySG): (16:04) Thanks co-chairs, staff and all
Stephen Deerhake (.as): (16:04) Bye
Leon Sanchez: (16:04) bye all
avri doria: (16:04) bye
Olga Cavalli: (16:04) many tnanks to all regards
Erich Schweighofer: (16:04) bye
Farzaneh Badii: (16:04) bye
Jorge Cancio (GAC Switzerland): (16:04) thanks all and bye!
jorge villa (ASO): (16:05) bye all!
Greg Shatan: (16:05) Goodbye all!
Thomas Rickert, Co-Chair: (16:05) bye all
