Zoom Chat: 2020-03-30 ALS Mobilization Working Party Call

12:59:20 From herb.waye : Hi from Canada
13:04:07 From Judith Hellerstein : Do we have people from all the RALOS
13:04:07 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : Normally with better bandwidth I just join multiple rooms, but these times I can barely stay in a single Zoom room reliably SO we *need* to build in a refractory period between back to back calls... In my *very* biased view at least
13:05:03 From Maureen Hilyard (ALAC) : Hi everyone.. just arrived from the CBWG
13:05:20 From Roberto : @Cheryi +1 personally, I often need a bio break 
13:05:58 From Roberto : A common problem for diversely young people
13:06:05 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : Yes there is the Bio aspects as well @Roberto ;-) Coffee is also a bio need if your like me
13:06:55 From Roberto : At this time of day (dinner time over here) maybe a glass of wine rather than coffee
13:06:59 From Dev Anand Teelucksingh (TTCS) : I suspect COVID-19 will impact attendance
13:07:21 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : it's unfriendly in parts of APAC
13:07:33 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : unfriendly times I mean
13:09:18 From Heidi Ullrich : Sarah is joining
13:10:36 From Maureen Hilyard (ALAC) : Ive been sending chat messages out to he APRALO leaders
13:10:48 From Sarah Kiden : Hi everyone, apologies for joining the call late
13:10:59 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : understood @ALan and yes that's a good plan
13:11:16 From Maureen Hilyard (ALAC) : @Sarah.. earlier than others on the team. Thank you.
13:11:20 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : Welcome Sarah
13:12:18 From Sarah Kiden : Thank you!
13:12:44 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : Ahh Welcome Amrita!
13:12:56 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : we were short on APAC RALO reps :-)
13:13:19 From Amrita Choudhury : Hi Cheryl .apologies for being late
13:13:33 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : NP getting here just as we begin
13:14:41 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : All good @Alan and in keeping with good SOP's / practices
13:17:46 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : I keep dropping from zoom because of poor connectivity Sorry I may need to just drop in via audio from time to time
13:18:22 From Amrita Choudhury : Having very choppy connectivity today.
13:18:38 From Judith Hellerstein : We can ask for RTT for next time if that is more helpful to you
13:18:48 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : Yes same here for me @Amrita
13:21:00 From Amrita Choudhury : organisation can be part of different constituency...but not a voting member
13:21:33 From Sarah Kiden : Right
13:21:55 From Sarah Kiden : I thought we are still talking about membership
13:23:04 From Dev Anand Teelucksingh (TTCS) : For me, the answer to 1 is Yes ;
13:23:21 From Judith Hellerstein : I am also a yes
13:23:23 From Dev Anand Teelucksingh (TTCS) : For 2, neither of the above
13:23:45 From Amrita Choudhury : For me 1 is no
13:24:14 From Judith Hellerstein : Then there were ones that choose none of the above
13:24:24 From Dev Anand Teelucksingh (TTCS) : For 2, if the decide if #1 is NO, then its better for a)
13:25:27 From Roberto : +1 Alan - cannot declare consensus. I assume that it will go to ALAC for decision
13:25:38 From Judith Hellerstein : @dev so you would make all the iSOC Chapters to choose to be either in nPOC or ALAC
13:25:46 From Judith Hellerstein : That is wrong
13:26:09 From Judith Hellerstein : I am also against B
13:27:09 From Roberto : I think that we all have already expressed our opinions - to repeat the same argument over and over again will only delay the end but not change the result
13:27:09 From Amrita Choudhury : I think the concern was mainly of ALS member applying for leadership position in different constituencies
13:27:17 From Dev Anand Teelucksingh (TTCS) : My choice to 1 is "Yes", so I don't agree with anything in 2 in this regard, but creating a special non voting ALS status doesn't make sense
13:27:40 From Sarah Kiden : Agree with Amrita, I would also say leadership
13:27:49 From Dev Anand Teelucksingh (TTCS) : @Amrita - and so what if ALS members go for other AC/SO positions
13:28:02 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : What does any risk of allowing vi=otes in multiple areas mena in terms of harm
13:28:13 From Filina Natalia (Euralo Secretary) : Agree @Dev
13:28:15 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : @Alan if it changes then we can review then
13:28:15 From Judith Hellerstein : Yes but we already said that leadership is OK so that is why I was asking my questions
13:28:49 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : but I truly do not see any actual **risk** of open options to vote wherever
13:28:51 From Judith Hellerstein : I agree with Dev.
13:29:41 From Amrita Choudhury : @Dev the issue is many view it as opportunity ..if I do not get into leadership in one community..let me jump and apply in leadership in another
13:30:12 From Judith Hellerstein : I agree with you amrita, but that issue was decided earlier by people saying that it was ok to be a leader in both
13:30:25 From Amrita Choudhury : there is nothing wrong in it..however there should be some constituency
13:30:27 From Dev Anand Teelucksingh (TTCS) : @Amrita - so if you have an IP lawyer in your ALS, that IP lawyer can't join IPC ?
13:30:29 From Judith Hellerstein : @eduardo that was my questions as well
13:30:48 From Maureen Hilyard (ALAC) : I think the confusion is around "voting member" when in this instance we are talking about the ALS. A voting ALS in another part of ICANN cannot vote in their RALO. We use the word "member" for individual persons
13:30:52 From Dev Anand Teelucksingh (TTCS) : Agree @eduardo
13:31:35 From Judith Hellerstein : We have this already
13:31:47 From Eduardo Diaz - NARALO : So if it does not matter then why are we discussing this
13:32:31 From Amrita Choudhury : @Dev what I am saying I may be an IP lawyer and I am in leadership position somewhere, then I should not be focussed elsewhere ...or should not have a leadership position elsewhere
13:32:37 From Judith Hellerstein : No she is laid and clear
13:32:44 From Judith Hellerstein : Loud and clear
13:33:16 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : For these statement we could use éntity'over the term "member
13:34:56 From Maureen Hilyard (ALAC) : In this statement, replacing it with "entity" would be preferable to "member"
13:35:15 From Roberto : Can we agree that we will never get consensus on this topic? If this is the case can we stop losing time on this and go to a different item? This will be reported to ALAC as “not having consensus in the WG”.
13:35:30 From Eduardo Diaz - NARALO : Why are we discussing this? Was there a situation where this happened before or a we trying to solve something that may or may not happen in the future.
13:35:34 From Judith Hellerstein : @roberto I agree with you
13:35:51 From Judith Hellerstein : According to Cheryl the only issues is is voting on board members
13:35:54 From Eduardo Diaz - NARALO : +1 Roberto
13:35:59 From Dev Anand Teelucksingh (TTCS) : @Roberto - I think, unless the issues are understood, then the ALAC will also be confused
13:36:05 From Judith Hellerstein : and that is once every 3 years
13:36:35 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : It does for me
13:37:16 From Roberto : @Dev - I may agree - but continuing discussion here will not help in clarifying things for ALAC members that are not in this group, they will be confused anyway
13:37:45 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : WITH the declaration text added!!
13:38:18 From Judith Hellerstein : Seems fine to me
13:38:25 From Roberto : +1 @Cheryl
13:38:31 From Filina Natalia (Euralo Secretary) : @Roberto may collecting the data on existing examples in practice help us? can we collect this data for each RALO?
13:38:32 From Judith Hellerstein : as long as it has the declaration statement on it
13:38:36 From Sarah Kiden : +1 Cheryl
13:38:44 From Dev Anand Teelucksingh (TTCS) : @Roberto - but confusion can lead to bad decisions, whose impact isn't understood and I don't think we have thought it through
13:38:53 From Roberto : @Natalia - sure
13:39:37 From Amrita Choudhury : Agree
13:39:49 From Roberto : @Dev - can you please explain how continuing the discussion here can clarify the question to ALAC members who are not participating to this discussion?
13:40:02 From Judith Hellerstein : Seems fine with me but have a question
13:40:06 From Sarah Kiden : Sounds good
13:41:22 From Eduardo Diaz - NARALO : Can I switch region s from time to time.
13:41:29 From Maureen Hilyard (ALAC) : I guess the discussion relates to whether ALS organisations are joining At-Large as full contributing members, or whether they are more interested in joining and being voting members of another organisation, but simply be contributing members of At-Large discussions. That would make them not full ALS members and therefore not be eligible for ALS benefits - like CROP etc
13:41:49 From Sarah Kiden : Yes, same rules as CROP should apply
13:42:09 From Dev Anand Teelucksingh (TTCS) : @Roberto - we more clearly identify and frame the issue, and maybe get clarity as what the options are
13:42:42 From Dev Anand Teelucksingh (TTCS) : hand raised on this
13:43:02 From Roberto : @Dev - let’s continue it on the mailing list
13:44:30 From Maureen Hilyard (ALAC) : You will have to make a rule to make it fair for those ALSes in countries who do not qualify for CROP, etc. just because of ICANN regional boundaries.
13:44:36 From Roberto : If I remember correctly, ALAC was against having territories - for instance French DOM-TOM - belonging to the ICANN region of the mother country rather their geographic location
13:45:05 From Dev Anand Teelucksingh (TTCS) : https://community.icann.org/display/soacabout/CROP-FY20
13:45:18 From Dev Anand Teelucksingh (TTCS) : "Determining whether a specific country is within an applicable geographical region will be done in accordance with the list of countries and geographic regions currently used by ICANN org’s Global Stakeholder Engagement (GSE) team, and not the ICANN meeting regions - click here to see the full GSE list of countries and regions. "
13:45:19 From Maureen Hilyard (ALAC) : @Alan.. but other regions may not agree to giving a CROP slot when Guam does not contribute to APRALO activities and discussions
13:45:29 From Roberto : Of course it does not matter since the decision has been taken by ICANN, but it explains the different approach
13:45:30 From Maureen Hilyard (ALAC) : Unless they became an ALS in APRALO
13:45:30 From Dev Anand Teelucksingh (TTCS) : The PDF : https://community.icann.org/display/soacabout/CROP-FY20?preview=/111382225/111390048/GSE%20Geographical%20Regions%20-%20ALL%20GSE%20REGIONS.pdf
13:46:18 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : Thanks @Dev
13:46:27 From Amrita Choudhury : +1 Maureen
13:46:38 From Eduardo Diaz - NARALO : Can Guam asked to be in APRALO?
13:46:53 From Judith Hellerstein : The entire country has to agree
13:47:10 From Eduardo Diaz - NARALO : @Judith: You mean ICANN.
13:47:11 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : Since when is CROP or travel support the only reason an ALS should be engaged in At-Large I did not remember us suggesting THAT was a criteria
13:47:34 From Judith Hellerstein : No the entire country has to agree that they will move regions
13:48:06 From Eduardo Diaz - NARALO : No really. ICANN is an organization and decides how they want to define their regions
13:48:34 From Roberto : @Eduardo - agree
13:48:36 From Eduardo Diaz - NARALO : ICANN is a private Corp
13:48:48 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : That discussion allowed for a single self determination of such a country to be shifted to its choice of ICANN Geo Region BUT all parts had to move so all AC/SO parties...
13:48:50 From Judith Hellerstein : ICANN decided in the regions report
13:48:51 From Filina Natalia (Euralo Secretary) : + @Eduardo
13:49:06 From Judith Hellerstein : Exactly as Cheryl says
13:49:10 From Dev Anand Teelucksingh (TTCS) : Correct Cheryl
13:49:42 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : Well as I chaired the Geo Reviews process I hope I am @Dev ;-)
13:49:46 From Heidi Ullrich : What format is this monthly update?
13:49:59 From Heidi Ullrich : How would this be different than the monthly newsletters?
13:50:04 From Dev Anand Teelucksingh (TTCS) : Absolutely Cheryl :-)
13:50:43 From Eduardo Diaz - NARALO : Wasy - take all the newsletters and concatenate them. There you have the Monthly report
13:50:51 From Nadira AL-ARAJ : maybe for new ALSes
13:50:58 From Eduardo Diaz - NARALO : Or just put the links
13:51:01 From Filina Natalia (Euralo Secretary) : I guess newsletter from Leadership of Ralo is enough-)
13:51:17 From Heidi Ullrich : Could there be a staff update in the monthly RALO newsletter?
13:51:18 From Dev Anand Teelucksingh (TTCS) : shrug - which most persons ignores, but this is a O&E
13:51:21 From Dev Anand Teelucksingh (TTCS) : issue
13:51:33 From Eduardo Diaz - NARALO : @Heidi: I like that
13:51:59 From Heidi Ullrich : Also, the weekly community update might cover that info.
13:52:10 From Sarah Kiden : Good idea @Heidi
13:53:34 From Maureen Hilyard (ALAC) : @Cheryl.. how easy would it be for tiny American Samoa for example, to seek asking USA (in GAC) who provides their entire funding, that they want to separate from US so that they can be incorporated into the Pacific region. Has any country made a change using that ICANN opportunity?
13:54:24 From Alperen Eken : https://www.icann.org/en/system/files/files/newsletter-emea-10feb20-en.pdf
13:54:34 From Eduardo Diaz - NARALO : Do we need to define this now?
13:55:25 From Roberto : @Maureen - trying to think as a government - that’s what they are in the GAC - they will feel this as a loss of sovereignty over Am Samoa, so they will refuse
13:56:09 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : Not B**dy likely @Alan ;-)
13:56:25 From Maureen Hilyard (ALAC) : @Roberto.. I thought as much
13:56:44 From Dev Anand Teelucksingh (TTCS) : Indeed, not likely, but this is a O&E (and the work by CBWG and SMWG) issue
13:56:47 From Roberto : If I remember correctly, France had a huge discussion for their DOM-TOM even having an independent ccTLD, and Guadalupe and Martinique have been relegated by ICANN to AFNIC
13:57:12 From Maureen Hilyard (ALAC) : +1 Natalia.. this is something we are doing through other WGs - O&E and social media
13:57:22 From Eduardo Diaz - NARALO : ok with me
13:57:29 From Nadira AL-ARAJ : reduce the frequency of communications
13:57:48 From Judith Hellerstein : The deal we worked out with Guadalupe was that if they wanted to attend something in the caribbean that LAC GSE would try and facilitate it for them using their own funds
13:58:14 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : and be specific and purpose designed in the pitch and the audience of each communication
13:58:31 From Roberto : Thanks @Judith - did not know about
13:59:08 From Judith Hellerstein : I mean for the ALS there in Guadeloupe
13:59:44 From Roberto : @Judith, yes, I have understood that.
14:00:01 From Judith Hellerstein : They would be able to join in discussions in lacralo but not have a vote
14:00:21 From Dev Anand Teelucksingh (TTCS) : Getting ppl to understand "why should they care"
14:00:34 From Roberto : Now that you mention it, I do remember that it came up in EURALO as well
14:01:50 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : Time check
14:02:16 From Eduardo Diaz - NARALO : Need to move along. Thank you for the discussion.
14:03:15 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : My next meeting is in que
14:03:30 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : Bye for now
14:03:37 From Maureen Hilyard (ALAC) : Interesting situation.. American Samoa, Guam, French Polynesia don't have ALSes but they are members of an ALS -- PICISOC - so in fact we offer them opportunities to participate in ICANN activities that may be being offered by PICISOC.. including our own fellowships, etc. If anyone is interested from these countries, they would get that opportunity
14:03:40 From Sarah Kiden : Thank you!
14:03:43 From Filina Natalia (Euralo Secretary) : Thank you for this call!
14:03:44 From Dev Anand Teelucksingh (TTCS) : Thanks All, take care all
14:03:48 From Roberto : Bye
14:03:53 From Amrita Choudhury : Thank you
14:03:54 From Nadira AL-ARAJ : thank you all