Marilyn Cade: And what if we are too far away? will you tip one for us too?
Alan Greenberg: Unfortunately I will have to leave on the hour.
judith hellerstein: There is a large squeek on the phone
Farzaneh Badii: Hi
Farzaneh Badii: Olivier I have a request
Farzaneh Badii: muffled ...
Farzaneh Badii: I can't hear well
Farzaneh Badii: I have a request ...
Farzaneh Badii: ok
judith hellerstein: yes
Farzaneh Badii: yeah it's ok
Sam Lanfranco npoc/csih: loud and clear
Farzaneh Badii: must be my Atlantic connection
judith hellerstein: we lost nigel
Alan Greenberg: Rafik's sound quite garbled. Is it just me?
Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond: he does sound a bit garbled
Marilyn Cade: Rafik, we are having trouble hearing you clearly.
judith hellerstein: no i also hear him garbled
Alan Greenberg: People generally do not read chat while talking...
judith hellerstein: i do not think he is on adobe connect so he probably can not see the chat
Desiree Cabrera: In the meantime, here is a link to the motion https://community.icann.org/display/gnsocouncilmeetings/Motions+7+November+2016
Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond: thanks
Alan Greenberg: scrolling please
Alan Greenberg: Could you please give us all scrolling control?
Alan Greenberg: Thx
Farzaneh Badii: we have to start the drafting team
Marilyn Cade: I have a question regarding deliverables, as many of our deliverables so far have been activities, including participatoin in events - e.g. WSIS Forum, or guidance ... to staff
Sam Lanfranco npoc/csih: Rafik is garbled but I can understand him
Farzaneh Badii: well we have to amend our deliverables too ...
Marilyn Cade: Can we also have others whohave not announced themselves to state who they are
Farzaneh Badii: well review and drafting team then
Greg Shatan: Apologies for being late.
Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond: @Greg we have swapped agenda items 2 & 3 and are immediately speaking about the Charter
Marilyn Cade: I have raised my hand to comment, when possible.
Farzaneh Badii: GNSO doesn't want us to change annually
Greg Shatan: Merci, OCL
Farzaneh Badii: I asked for the swap Greg. sorry if you missed some of it
Farzaneh Badii: reviewing our charter gives us a better objective and focus as well. regardless of what GNSO asks
Greg Shatan: Please mute if you are not speaking.
Farzaneh Badii: yes . but we should provide guidance as well as attending events. the former we don't do much of
Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond: +1 @Farzaneh - we need to crank up our guidance ability. Some of the resources have been otherwise busy with CWG IANA and with CCWG Accountability but I am hoping that participants in this working group will have more time to provide guidance now
Marilyn Cade: Thanks, Farzaneh, we did provide guidance into the NETMundial, as we all recall, byusing a town hall approach.
Becky Burr: i would not assume that anyone thinks this does not matter. The issue strikes me as a matter of discipline - regular articulation of the purpose of this group, its activities, goals, and some sort of metrics about how we will measure whether the group is meeting its objecties
Becky Burr: exactly Greg
Farzaneh Badii: netmundil was 3 years ago?
Farzaneh Badii: yes Becky. totally agree
Marilyn Cade: This group has organized public meetings, often attended by these same people, but perhaps we need to then submit a meeting summary, back into each SO/AC.
judith hellerstein: I think Greg is exactly right
Farzaneh Badii: agree with greg
Farzaneh Badii: public meeting is not enough. we have to work together in a ccwg regularly on issues we identify. one off public meetings won't do.
Marilyn Cade: I would prefer that we stick with the CCWG appraoch and fulfill the requirements.
Greg Shatan: I think it's a stretch to count a public meeting or panel as a deliverable. And we're not going to get the benefit of the doubt.
Marilyn Cade: Sorry, Greg, when we make a recommendation at a public session, that should be a deliverable, no?
Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond: @Greg: how about a report on a panel or meeting activities?
Farzaneh Badii: so how should we start ?
Farzaneh Badii: with a list of criteria?
Marilyn Cade: +1: Olivier, if we make a statement... or offer guidance to the Staff/Board.
Greg Shatan: @Marilyn and Olivier, I think the deliverable has to have value on its own.
Becky Burr: one other point. CCWG's are closely tied back to their chartering organizations - this report back/endorsement loop creates a specific kind of accountability. I don't think that's silly.
Greg Shatan: TLDR
Farzaneh Badii: I gree with Greg
Marilyn Cade: Becky, I didn't see anyone saying that reporting back/gaining support is silly, in fact, some of us are doing that internally, but perhaps not well enough publicly.
Marilyn Cade: sorry, Greg: I cannot decode TLDR?
Farzaneh Badii: too long didnt read
Greg Shatan: Reports back to Council may have been seen as lacking. Each of us reporting back to our respective groups in our own way is not an ideal plan.
Farzaneh Badii: I thought it's a new top level
Greg Shatan: TLDR was in response to the idea/fear that we should do a 60-80 page report as our deliverable.
Becky Burr: i think the focus on whether or not this is a ccwg is counter productive. What are we intending to accomplish and how are we intending to accomplish that? what is the best working methodology to do the work of the group? Whether or not it fits in the CCWG framework is entirely irrelevant if the work is important and there is a reasonable plan to accomplish it.
Farzaneh Badii: I agree with Becky
Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond: @Becky -- regular deliverables would show the worthiness of this group
Farzaneh Badii: if it aligns with ccwg framework in the end then it's good. if not it doesnt matter I guess
Marilyn Cade: Becky has offered a different approach, I think -- which is what are we doing, why did we do it, how does it impact ICANN, etc. And, we can then assess the deliverables...
Greg Shatan: Reports need to go to GNSO Council, and to SG/C leadership, directly.
Marilyn Cade: Greg, just checking: SO/AC or did you mean for just the GNSO, the GNSO Council, but also the SG/C leadership, which I agree with, but also the fuller SO/ACs?
Greg Shatan: More broadly, yes to the SO/ACs but I'm focusing on the problem we have with GNSO.
Marilyn Cade: And, I'd like to make a comment about the role of engagement with bodies engaging in IG, and ensuring that there is a bottom up engagement with the CEO/President, and senior staff on this issue, which is not a GNSO issue, or a ccNSO, or a GAC issue but affects ICANN 'generally'.
Becky Burr: agree on both points Greg
Marilyn Cade: How do we envision the Board working group engaging with the community on IG, otherwise?
Farzaneh Badii: I can't hear antying
Farzaneh Badii: is it me
Farzaneh Badii: yes it was me
Greg Shatan: Rafik is speaking
judith hellerstein: yes Farzi it is you. Rafik was speaking and now Olivier is
Farzaneh Badii: thanks Judith. I can hear now
Farzaneh Badii: well maybe that's one of the deliverables? be linked to this Board group ( but engage with them not just be linked)
Marilyn Cade: Question: did the CCWGs ask permission, or draft and go out for public comment?
Marilyn Cade: And then return to the SO/ACs about what the broader community said in public comments?
Farzaneh Badii: ok so that was a line up of action items Olivier?
Becky Burr: CCWG's draft and publish for comments, but the final document had to be affirmatively endorsed by the chartering organization
Farzaneh Badii: can we have a set of action items by the end of this meeting?
Farzaneh Badii: I have to leave
judith hellerstein: by Farzi-hope you are settling in OK
Marilyn Cade: I think that Becky responded that the input came from the community, and then went to the Chartering organizatins.
Marilyn Cade: Yes, I fully agree with that timing challenge, but also expertise. Most of the expertise is lying in the CCWG - IG and community, and less so in the day to day work of the SO/ACs.
Sam Lanfranco npoc/csih: Question: Are we blending WGs and DGs here, with regard to what others are doing?
Farzaneh Badii: bye everyone. look forward to a discussion on the list about what we should do next
Alan Greenberg: Have to leave now. Bye all.
Mark Carvell UK GAC rep: As far as GAC is concerned, individual GAC reps can respond quickly to a consultation of course but a full committee consensus-based input (168 govts) will take longer to source.
Marilyn Cade: We need to also include the face to face meetings and the sessins that we have organized at the ICANN meetings, Olivier.
Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond: Thanks @MArk; understood.
Marilyn Cade: I am so appreciative that Juuso and Mark are here but I know that also in our sessions, that we have many other GAC attendees.
Greg Shatan: The timeline itself should be an ongoing deliverable. We just need to deliver it.
Greg Shatan: Maybe we need an outward-facing web page, i.e., as a resource to the community. Something more than a wiki page. It could even be a blog. This too could be a deliverable, and would also contain our deliverables.
Greg Shatan: Yes, the public version.
Greg Shatan: Not the Marilyn Cade secret sauce version.
Marilyn Cade: Otherwise, how would my friends find that secret sauce version so attractive?
judith hellerstein: I thought greg was talking about the ccwg wiki and not just your amazing chart
Marilyn Cade: or scary?
Marilyn Cade: I am happy to collaborate.
Marilyn Cade: How about we do only our outline for the Annual report and publish that? can we do that by end of y ear?
Mark Carvell UK GAC rep: Happy to assist Nigel with the calendar for 2017.
Marilyn Cade: Mark, do you have a date for the Cyber event in India for 2017?
Mark Carvell UK GAC rep: I see that Annex A on adoption of the Charter is blank. Is there an action point here?
Marilyn Cade: and we probably need to list the members of the CCWG-IG?
Marilyn Cade: I only have 6 pages on the version that I printed out.
Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond: Mark: https://community.icann.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=52888225
Marilyn Cade: opps. found page 7.
Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond: @Marilyn: re: members of the CCWG IG, we'll take the record from https://community.icann.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=43984275 --- although the list needs to be seriously cleaned up / updated
judith hellerstein: Yes. It does. Many of the GAC members who are on our calls are not listed and some people who are listed have not come in several years
Mark Carvell UK GAC rep: Marilyn + 1 And thanks to Switzerland for stepping forward to host in 2017. The progress with the ongoing retreat process on strengthening the IGF is another angle for CCWG IG next time maybe?
Marilyn Cade: I am starting a rumor that the SecGen of UN will attend the IGF in Switzerland. Yes, Mark, can you offer that please as a work item on the comments into the IGF Retreat?
judith hellerstein: @olivier I canhelp you clean up the member lists
Greg Shatan: I will volunteer for charter revision.
Mark Carvell UK GAC rep: Marilyn - as a work item for this group you mean?
Sam Lanfranco npoc/csih: bye
Marilyn Cade: Happy holidays! Indeed!
Mark Carvell UK GAC rep: Bye - valuable forum - thanks Olivier!
