Sub-group Members:   Alan Greenberg, Avri Doria, Barbara Wanner, Brett Schaefer, Chris Wilson, David McAuley, Edward Morris, George Sadowsky, Hibah Hussain, Jorge Gonzalez, Julf Helsingius, Michael Karanicolas, Olivier Muron, Philip Corwin, Ricardo Holmquist, Samantha Eisner, Sonigitu Ekpe

Observers:  John Curran, Lyman Chapin, 

Staff:  Bernie Turcotte, Brenda Brewer, Karen Mulberry

Apologies:  Chris Disspain, Cheryl Langdon-Orr

**Please let Brenda know if your name has been left off the list (attendees or apologies).**

Transcript

• Word Doc

• PDF

Recording

• The Adobe Connect recording is available here: https://icann.adobeconnect.com/p8u0oxmtjo0/

• The audio recording is available here:  http://audio.icann.org/accountability/ccwg-accountability-transparency-subgroup-18aug16-en.mp3

Notes

 Welcome

• Michael Karanicolas: Will use the Thematic Overview document. The document will guide the scope of the work.  Have 
  slightly restructured the 4 topics to use Pro-active disclosure vs reactive disclosure (ie DIDP).

Discussion re Thematic Overview Doc

• Michael Karanicolas: Any comments on DIDP.
• David McAuley: Para 65 of Annex 07 of CCWG final report says this about DIDP: The community has expressed concerns regarding 
  the ICANN document/information access policy and implementation. Free access to relevant information is an essential element of a 
  robust IRP, and as such, the CCWG-Accountability recommends reviewing and enhancing the ICANN Documentary 
  Information Disclosure Policy as part of the accountability enhancements in Work Stream 2. Annex 07 is about IRP. Important 
  phrase "free access to relevant information".
• Michael Karanicolas: DIDP may be one of the biggest work areas for this group.
• David McAuley: The IRP is looking to us with respect to DIDP (interdependency).
• Sonigitu Ekpe: (unclear) if we have important information it should provided in a spreadsheet (accessible data and easily 
  manipulated = use word and excel files vs PDF).
• MK: this should be part of the second theme. On to the second theme IMPROVING ICANN'S PROACTIVE DISCCLOSURE 
  SYSTEMS. Are there any additional sub-themes to be added to this list?
• DavidMcAuley: Does this cover financial transparency?
• MK: Good point this should be added.
•  Brett Schaefer: We shoudl also add that it is not just transparenct of reporting in a reasonably quick fashion, but with enough detail to 
  actually be transparent
• MK: Agree. In a DIDP it is different. We should end up with a list of information that should be published pro-actively. Anything elese on theme 2? Moving on to issue 3 Improvements to the Existing Whistleblower Policy. Sam Eisner has provided 
  relevant information. Any additions?
• Barbara Wanner: The difficulty of actually finding information on this on the ICANN website is indicative.
• MK: Good point.
• Avri Doria: and do they safe using it? the policy determines the safety
• Alan Greenberg: this was not meant to a whistleblower policy and as such is not named like this on the public website. It is also important to 
  note that there is a separate website for emplyees.
• Brett Schaefer: Michael, will this list be final for the tenure of this sub-group? I am concerned that as the EC stands up and the SO/ACs get more familiar with the new governance model, some new transparency 
  concerns might surface. 
• MK: I would consider it an open list but it would be important to have the list as complete as possible as early on as possible.
• Samantha Eisner 2: The information is posted in each office, available to all employees, circulated annually for confirmation, and 
  included in trainings.  It is called our "anaymous hotline" policy because the term "whistleblower" has been considered to have negative 
  connotations and also suggests that the scope of reporting is narrower than what is actually allowed
• MK: It would be good to review the documentation that is available to employees?
• Samantha Eisner: We send it out annually and is available in training sessions. Happens in many ways on a day to day basis.
• MK: SE is there any user guide distributed with the policy?
• Samantha Eisner: Those documents/policy are being revised as per ATRT2 (small modifications).
• MK: what is the timeline on the revisions so this group can look at the latest version?
• Samantha Eisner: Action Item - will advise when this is due. (dropped off call)
• Alan Greenberg: Suggest Avri Doria and I were both on ATRT2 and we could prepare a short document to present to the group.
• MK: Next Steps - 

Next Steps (e.g., further research)

• Chris Wilson: we could use case studies of DIDP cases to try and identify inconsistencies.
• Brett Schaefer: Earlier this year or maybe last fall, two studies on ICANN DIDP decisions were circulated on the CCWG list. Have you seen them?
• Chris Wilson: Action Item - BS could you locate and distribute to this group. Any other such documents would be a great help.
• MK: Our final report should have recommendations and clearly identify which improvements are being requested. Approach is identify 
  issue areas, identify problems in the issue areas and the identify possible solutions (bad audio). Ideas on how to structure the next phase?
• Philip Corwin: Both I and others I know who have used the DIDP have found a perceived bias toward under disclosure. In my opinion this may 
  largely result from the fact that there is overlap between those reviewing the requests and those who prepared or acted upon the materials being 
  requested. I believe that this can best be addressed by vesting decisions on disclosure in a neutral third party -- perhaps in in an expanded Ombudsman's office, perhaps elsewhere.
• MK: There is a natural tendency for all institutions towards resistence to transparency.  This is why policies on disclosure have to be very clear to avoid this.
• David McAuley: decisions on disclosure might swamp the Ombudsman, maybe that function coul d be a quick appeal on denials of disclosure 
• MK: our work dovetails with the work in other sub-groups. We will have to consider this. Our plan for the n ext few weeks is to allow people to plug in relevant information and then start to go in on specific topics. there may of been some issues with the Google Doc but we will keep it up until the next phase. We need to identify specific problem issues.
• Brett Schaefer: Michael, one was by Sarah Clayton. I will recirculate The other was by Padmini Baruah. I'm not sure if I have a 
  file or link to the final version. (earlier point AI).

AOB

• MK: Any AOB. Written contributions are they key way for this group.
• Chris Wilson: Next call is September 1 0500UTC.
• MK: Adjourned.

Documents Presented

• Thematic Overview for WS2 Transparency Subgroup Rev.pdf
  

Chat Transcript

 Brenda Brewer:Good day All and welcome the Transparency Subgroup Meeting #2 on 18 August 2016 @ 13:00 UTC!

  Julf Helsingius:Good day!

  Ricardo Holmquist:Hi, good day

  Chris Wilson:Brenda, I am x6514

  Michael Karanicolas:Hi - can we maybe upload a copy of the revised thematic overview as well?

  Brenda Brewer:I have it uploaded Michael.  : )

  Brenda Brewer:Thank you Chris

  Bernard Turcotte Staff Support:good day all

  Michael Karanicolas:Thanks Brenda. is there any way to get it onto the main screen, alongside the agenda (or a page down from it)?

  Brenda Brewer:If your phone number is listed in Attendees pod, please inform your name for attendance purposes.  Thank you!

  Sonigitu Ekpe:Greetings all!

  David McAuley:yes

  Brenda Brewer:@ Michael, agenda shows in notes pod

  Julf Helsingius:yes'

  Sonigitu Ekpe:Greetings All

  John Curran:Yes, audio is clear

  Brenda Brewer:I will need to start the recording

  Brenda Brewer:stand by

  David McAuley:no longer hearing anythibg

  Bernard Turcotte Staff Support:sound good here

  Brenda Brewer:Sound is good here also

  David McAuley:I will call in, thanks Bernie, I hear nothing

  David McAuley:Brenda, I am 4154

  Brenda Brewer:Thank you Davud, always appreciated.

  Julf Helsingius:jSomeone seems to have their mic on

  Philip Corwin:I am 5316

  Brenda Brewer:Thank you Philip!

  Chris Wilson:Please all mute your phones

  David McAuley:CCWG final report on IRP made important point about DIDP

  Julf Helsingius:There is still an echo

  David McAuley:Para 65 of Annex 07 of CCWG final report says this about DIDP: The community has expressed concerns regarding the ICANN document/information access policy and implementation. Free access to relevant information is an essential element of a robust IRP, and as such, the CCWG-Accountability recommends reviewing and enhancing the ICANN Documentary Information Disclosure Policy as part of the accountability enhancements in Work Stream 2.

  David McAuley:Annex 07 is about IRP

  David McAuley:Important phrase "free access to relevant information"

  Michael Karanicolas:again - please mute your microphones

  Julf Helsingius:Sonigitu: can you mute your speaker to avoid echo?

  Brett Schaefer:Phil, I think your phone is the source of the echo.

  David McAuley:yes

  Philip Corwin:Not possible--it is on mute

  Brett Schaefer:Sorry, I saw the sound animation next to your phone.

  Ricardo Holmquist:are we going to discuss further what is the extend of the disclosure on point 2

  Ricardo Holmquist:sorry I'm new in this meetings

  David McAuley:good point Chris

  Brett Schaefer:We shoudl also add that it is not just transparenct of reporting in a reasonably quick fashion, but with enough detail to actually be transparent

  Brett Schaefer:apologies for typos, should be “should” “transparency”

  Brett Schaefer:yes, that makes sense

  David McAuley:seems fine

  Barbara Wanner:I proposed this topics based on the other document your provided. Hapy to work on this.

  Avri Doria:and do they safe using it?

  Avri Doria:the policy determines the safety

  Michael Karanicolas:fully agree Avri

  David McAuley:lost Alan?

  David McAuley:no -maybe my system

  Barbara Wanner:Helpful background, thanks!

  Brett Schaefer:Michael, will this list be final for the tenure of this sub-group? I am concerned that as the EC stands up and the SO/ACs get more familiar with the new governance model, some new transparency concerns might surface.

  Samantha Eisner 2:The information is posted in each office, available to all employees, circulated annually for confirmation, and included in trainings

  David McAuley:Thanks Sam

  Barbara Wanner:Ditto -- thanks Sam!

  Sonigitu Ekpe 2:The document shall continue to be updated as we progress

  Samantha Eisner 2:It is called our "anaymous hotline" policy because the term "whistleblower" has been considered to have negative connotations and also suggests that the scope of reporting is narrower than what is actually allowed

  Alan Greenberg:Records (without the specific details) were felt by ATRT2 to be a valuable metric. ie how often is it used, and what are ultimate outcomes?

  Brett Schaefer:when will the revised policy be finalized?

  Barbara Wanner:Can't hear Samantha

  Alan Greenberg:Seem to have lost Sam

  Samantha Eisner 2:apologies

  Samantha Eisner 2:I'm having issues dialing back in

  David McAuley:Good idea, thank you Alan

  Avri Doria:good suggestion. am willing

  Barbara Wanner:Would appreciate that -- I notice both of your posts as I tried to research this. Great!

  Samantha Eisner 2:on audio only for the time being

  David McAuley:I think so

  David McAuley:yes, good outline, thank you both

  Brett Schaefer:Earlier this year or maybe last fall, two studies on ICANN DIDP decisions were circulated on the CCWG list. Have you seen them?

  Michael Karanicolas:Sarah Clayton's?

  Brett Schaefer:Michael, I can't remember the author's name. I will try and find them.

  Brenda Brewer:If your phone number ends with 3155 or 8780 please identify your name for attendance accuracy.  Thank you!

  Chris Wilson:Indeed.  this informs our recs

  Barbara Wanner:Brenda, my phone ends 3155.

  Brenda Brewer:Thank you Barbara.

  Philip Corwin:Both I and others I know who have used the DIDP have found a perceived bias toward underdisclosure. In my opinion this may largely result from the fact that there is overlap between those reviewing the requests and those who prepared or acted upon the materials being requested. I believe that this can best be addressed by vesting decisions on disclosure in a neutral thirrd party -- perhaps in in an expanded Ombudsman's office, perhaps elsewhere.

  David McAuley:decisions on disclosure might swamp the Ombudsman, maybe that function coul d be a quick appeal on denials of disclosure

  David McAuley:it doews

  David McAuley:does

  Barbara Wanner:Sounds like a good approach. Feel we need a bit more background as discussed earlier. Thanks!

  Brett Schaefer:Michael, one was by Sarah Clayton. I will recirculate The other was by Padmini Baruah. I'm not sure if I have a file or link to the final version.

  Sonigitu Ekpe 2:I really appreciate the effort to recirculate

  David McAuley:Thanks chairs, and staff, bye all

  Brett Schaefer:thanks

  Julf Helsingius:Thanks

  Bernard Turcotte Staff Support:Bye all

  Barbara Wanner:Thanks, Michael and Chris!

  Ricardo Holmquist:thank you, have a good day