Sub-group Members: Andrew Sullivan, Asha Hemrajani, Avri Doria, Edward Morris, Farzaneh Badii, Herb Waye, Jimson Olufuye, Jose Arce, Karel Douglas, Klaus Stoll, Mike Silber, Sebastien Bachollet, Susan Payne (13)
Staff: Bernie Turcotte, Brenda Brewer, Laena Rahim, Nathalie Vergnolle, Trang Nguyen
Apologies: Cheryl Langdon-Orr
**Please let Brenda know if your name has been left off the list (attendees or apologies).**
Transcript
Recording
The Adobe Connect recording is available here: https://icann.adobeconnect.com/p6safbxyzw8/
The audio recording is available here:
Agenda
1. Roll Call / Apologies – Welcome – Opening Remarks (5 min SBT & Staff)
2. Discuss the following chapters of the document (45 min) https://docs.google.com/document/d/192SDRXsnr5ujf1iVj4hj_WMf3fMmYiEhY1ur8E_T73g/edit?usp=sharing
- Dependencies between the sub-groups
- ATRT2
- Stress Tests
- Current role of the ICANN Ombuds Office
3. Next Meeting (5 min)
4. AOB (5 min)
Notes
Documents Presented
Chat Transcript
Brenda Brewer:Good day all and welcome to the Ombudsman Subgroup Meeting #5 on 6 September 2016 @ 13:00 UTC!
Brenda Brewer:Google Doc link: https://docs.google.com/document/d/192SDRXsnr5ujf1iVj4hj_WMf3fMmYiEhY1ur8E_T73g/edit?usp=sharing
Herb Waye Ombuds:Hello all...
Bernard Turcotte Staff Support:morning LL
Karel Douglas:HI ALL
Karel Douglas:unfortunately I am not able to connect my audio
Klaus Stoll:I have problems receiving the documents and also meeting invitations. Please send to kdrstoll@gmail.com
Klaus Stoll:It might be that others have the same problem.
Edward Morris:Also, if we could get sent the call details a half hour or so before the meeting it would be helpful as a reminder
Bernard Turcotte Staff Support:if you are uncertain we are using the correct email address please email staff
Brenda Brewer:Klaus I will update your email address. The one I have on current record is different than the one you provide here.
Brenda Brewer:Other inquiries may go to acct-staff@icann.org
Klaus Stoll:@Brenda. Thanks!
Asha Hemrajani:Good evening all.
Farzaneh Badii:what are we supposed to read to answer this question? materials on ATRT?
Farzaneh Badii:whistle blower policy applies to ICANN staff if I am not mistaken. we should consider ombudsman applicability to dispute between ICANN (as corporation) and staff?
Herb Waye Ombuds:https://www.icann.org/en/system/files/files/final-recommendations-31dec13-en.pdf
Asha Hemrajani:between ICANN corp and staff - that should be in the realm of HR
Asha Hemrajani:What are those recommendations Herb?
Farzaneh Badii:Yes Asha
Farzaneh Badii:that is why I am asking
Avri Doria:it is ok, i should have this on the top of my mind for every meeting.
Asha Hemrajani:Avri the last part of what you said - I couldnt hear - could you type?
Herb Waye Ombuds:Item 26
Herb Waye Ombuds:and a few other items, atrt2 was more of a reveiw of the previous atrt
Farzaneh Badii:Thanks
Herb Waye Ombuds:item 26 one of the atrt items from atrt1 that was reviewed in 2
Asha Hemrajani:Thanks Herb
Edward Morris:Agree with Avri here,
Asha Hemrajani:That would be good Avri
Farzaneh Badii:that's a good idea
Herb Waye Ombuds:It would be good to include the link to the independent reveiw that was conducted for ATRT1 Avri
Mike Silber:Can we see the contribution before a decision is made as to whether it is included or not? I don't think that is the perogative of the rapporteur, but of the group
Asha Hemrajani:But Herb, there is nothing that says that a dispute between members of different SO/ACs cannot be brought in front of you
Asha Hemrajani:Good idea Herb
Farzaneh Badii:thanks Herb
Edward Morris:Thanks Herb
Karel Douglas:Good explanation - thanks Herb
Bernard Turcotte Staff Support:Steve DelBianco
Farzaneh Badii:Steve
Edward Morris:Steve DelBianco
Avri Doria:i have lost audio, will be back
Avri Doria:ok, got audio back
Edward Morris:Absolutely true. O and O subsidiary.
Avri Doria:i thought properly speaking it is an affiliate since it is a non profit, but essentiially the same as a subsidiary
Asha Hemrajani:fair enough Avri, but perhaps best to refer to it as a subsidiary so that we are clear on the relationship
Jimson Olufuye:In addition to Asha's comment, I would like to ask if Ombudsman decision/s are enforceable?!
Farzaneh Badii:no they are not Jimson
Avri Doria:well, but it is wrong. but ok.
Herb Waye Ombuds:No Jimson the ombuds can only make recommendaitons
Asha Hemrajani:@Jimson, we discussed that last time - no, not enforceble
Asha Hemrajani:they are recommendations
Jimson Olufuye:Ok, thanks!
Jimson Olufuye:Clear, thanks.
Farzaneh Badii:as a principle mediation does not yield to enforceble outcome in court. uless there is a settlement agreement
Farzaneh Badii:*unless
Farzaneh Badii:how would ombudsman enforce a resolution? it does not have a enforcement power!
Asha Hemrajani:Yes I am talking about a setllement agreement
Farzaneh Badii:I would not even hesitate! enforcement entityt?
Farzaneh Badii:ombudsman cannot be an enforcement body
Asha Hemrajani:Thanks Herb...the question then is if the ombud brokers a mediation setllement in ICANN, who helps to enforce that agreement
Edward Morris:If we want that then it's something different than an Omudsman.
Farzaneh Badii:Yes Ed
Farzaneh Badii:but even settlement agreement normally is enforced by court. not by the mediator!
Asha Hemrajani:agree Ed. I am a mediator but am never involved in enforcement...the courts do that...but in our case, who?
Karel Douglas:To make the Ombudsman recommendations into enforceable decisions would be to change the Ombudsman into a tribunal type body which would change its function
Karel Douglas:It would be a radical move away from the concept of what an ombudsman does
Asha Hemrajani:Yes that is clear, the question is who would do the enforcement?
Edward Morris:There are some cases that may be more appropriate for an IRP , including the CEP, than for an Ombudsman complaint. Perhaps those disoutes where enforcement could be problemmatic or forseen as such should be sent to other accountability processes fromthe start. Goodwill is a key compoent of any Ombudsman process.
Asha Hemrajani:Yes Seb, that is the question.
Farzaneh Badii:Yes Herb, very important
Edward Morris:+1 Herb
Asha Hemrajani:Good point Ed
Avri Doria:i will miss the next meeeting. apologies
Edward Morris:That's fine with me.
Herb Waye Ombuds:Having it at this time will allow me to meet with ICANN staff in LA before the meeting
Farzaneh Badii:more turn out doesnt necessarily more contribution :)
Edward Morris:Doodle's are good for maximizing meeting attendance.
Bernard Turcotte Staff Support:here - if being requested we can
Bernard Turcotte Staff Support:by a Board member
Farzaneh Badii:you have to be asked by a board member to do that?
Farzaneh Badii:interesting
Jimson Olufuye:I like this period.
Farzaneh Badii:no thank you
Herb Waye Ombuds:Merci Sebastien
Farzaneh Badii:Thanks Seb for all the work :)
Bernard Turcotte Staff Support:bye all
Farzaneh Badii:Ciao
Edward Morris:ThanksSebastian
Asha Hemrajani:Thanks Seb
