Sub-group Members: Avri Doria, Cheryl Langdon-Orr, George Sadowsky, Greg Shatan, Julf Helsingius, Klaus Stoll, Philip Corwin, Thomas Rickert (8)
Observers/Guests: Beth Bacon
Staff: Brenda Brewer, Karen Mulberry, Nathalie Vergnolle (3)
Apologies: Jordan Carter
** If your name is missing from attendance or apology, please send note to acct-staff@icann.org **
Transcript
Recording
Agenda
1. Intro: agenda review, attendance, SOI check
2. Update on working draft Document A version 1.3.
Jordan is rapporteur on this document
(main item at 16 Feb meeting)
Document, open to comments and suggested edits, can be found at:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wGRrJZ-i7WA0uYBIHaB5Q3ssqfRmbAcgHJwlQ6scHZY/edit
Marked up from previous version available for review:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wXuZw-VFeMLT3B5UHLU_nY1SWyzp6-VLeVZF1FY0UDk/edit
3. Detailed Discussion of Responses to Staff questions
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ELuw6i3mGAjnZBe0Vc_lraNQrWw5m_I6UyipEHaRJxc/edit?usp=sharing
4. Discussion / seeking feedback on First Draft Document B
Avri is rapporteur on this document
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1UnkJuukv0px-CfIDgLrjdDZa2CpBvSahPvAXdYYTeHk/edit
5. Schedule check
6. AOB
Notes (including relevant portions of chat):
1. Intro: agenda review, attendance, SOI check
Audio only: Jeff Neuman, Greg Shatan, George Sadowsky.
Roll call will be taken from AC room.
No SOI updates.
2. Update on working draft Document A version 1.3.
Jordan is rapporteur on this document
(main item at 16 Feb meeting)
Document, open to comments and suggested edits, can be found at:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wGRrJZ-i7WA0uYBIHaB5Q3ssqfRmbAcgHJwlQ6scHZY/edit
Marked up from previous version available for review:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wXuZw-VFeMLT3B5UHLU_nY1SWyzp6-VLeVZF1FY0UDk/edit
Very few people have edited the document so far. Document will be kept open on-line one more week, and will be reviewed by the subgroup during the next call, on Feb 16.
3. Detailed Discussion of Responses to Staff questions
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ELuw6i3mGAjnZBe0Vc_lraNQrWw5m_I6UyipEHaRJxc/edit?usp=sharing
• Avri: Answers have been mostly contributed by Klaus. Encourage others to contribute. Not sure if we have alignment between document A and the answers provided here.
• Julf Helsingius: Yes, ICANN.org tends to promote ICANN, not the community
• Jeff Neuman: FYI - The registries have some thoughts on Question 1 that we will be submitting. The registries have been in discussion with ICANN staff. There have been situations where ICANN has tried to push their views without going through the multistakeholder process.
• Jeff: Why did ICANN respond to our questions with more questions? what is ICANN going to do with these answers? seems very defensive from ICANN to answer our questions with more questions. Does it mean they won't participate in these discussions unless we answer their questions?
• Greg Shatan: this discussion shows the challenge of staff accountability. Difficult to balance out accountability and transparency and necessity to make business decision.
• George Sadowsky: speaking as board liaison for this group. I am in LA, so I can try to better understand what is going on here and reach out to staff.
• Phil Corwin: I haven't had the same experience but I don't represent contracted parties. I would like to see listed under question 1 a specific example, ie request for reconsideration filed in 2016.
• Avri: there are many bilateral issues, I'd like to encourage people to voice them out.
• George: are these isolated incidents?
• Philip Corwin: At a certain point a series of isolated incidents constitutes a clear pattern of behavior experienced by a broad cross section of the community
• Jeff Neuman: http://schd.ws/hosted_files/icann572016/a6/I57%20HYD_Sun06Nov2016-Board%20with%20Contracted%20Party%20House-en.pdf ,[schd.ws] starting on page 30 and continuing pretty much to the end we talk about the seemingly adversarial relationship between the contracted parties and the ICANN staff
• Philip Corwin: In regard to question 3, perhaps we should ask staff to identify specific instances in which they have not been treated in a respectful manner, because I can't recall witnessing any.
4. Discussion/Seeking feedback on First Draft Document B
Avri is rapporteur on this document
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1UnkJuukv0px-CfIDgLrjdDZa2CpBvSahPvAXdYYTeHk/edit
Avri: encouraging people to contribute to this document too.
5. Schedule check
We have slipped on our schedule. Jordan and I need to recalibrate.
6. AOB
Documents Presented
Chat Transcript
Brenda Brewer: (2/2/2017 06:57) Good day all and welcome to the Staff Accountability Subgroup Meeting #8 on 2 February!
Julf Helsingius: (06:58) Good day!
avri doria: (07:00) Hello Everybody!
Julf Helsingius: (07:01) avri: your mic is very quiet
Julf Helsingius: (07:03) much better!
Brenda Brewer: (07:03) If phone number is showing in Participant field, please identify your name for attendance purposes. Thank you!
Philip Corwin: (07:11) I am 5316
Brenda Brewer: (07:11) Thank you Phil! Muted due to echo.
Philip Corwin: (07:13) My phone is already muted, so it cannot be the source of the echo.
Julf Helsingius: (07:18) Yes, ICANN.org tends to promote ICANN, not the community
Jeff Neuman: (07:20) FYI - The registries have some thoughts on QUestion 1 that we will be submitting
Jeff Neuman: (07:21) Sure
avri doria: (07:38) i think of like more of thrown piles of dirty laudry at each other, not rocks.
Klaus Stoll: (07:45) The fear is not only with contracted parties. There is clear blowback to the non contracted parties also.
Jeff Neuman: (07:47) https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__schd.ws_hosted-5Ffiles_icann572016_a6_I57-2520HYD-5FSun06Nov2016-2DBoard-2520with-2520Contracted-2520Party-2520House-2Den.pdf&d=DwICaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=kbiQDH54980u4nTPfwdloDLY6-6F24x0ArAvhdeDvvc&m=klMvG0RIcZyyKtLmg5QlQaOTLE1QXtuWwFRUOHT5TbM&s=76u8PAzh7pPT9YAtQS4Sm3LRFA01PIytW0lnPYTddIg&e= , startgin on page 30 and contnuing pretty much to the end we talk about the seemingly adversarial relationship between the contracted parties and the ICANN staff
Jeff Neuman: (07:47) sorry for all the typos
Philip Corwin: (07:50) At a certain point a series of isolated incidents constitutes a clear pattern of behavior experienced by a broad cross section of the community
Klaus Stoll: (07:52) George. There is much more then hearsay, there are long well documented processes. What is the appropriate space to discuss them. We tried staff.
Julf Helsingius: (07:54) What should be clear is where staff actions/policies come from
Philip Corwin: (07:54) In regard to question 3, perhaps we should ask staff to identify specific instances in whivch they have not been treated in a respectful manner, because I can't recall witnessing any
Julf Helsingius: (07:54) Either by reference to policy document, or by reference to person who is decision maker
Jeff Neuman: (07:55) Can we please make the link i gave part of the notes from this meeting and entered into the record
Julf Helsingius: (07:55) Maybe ICANN should get a washing machine?
Thomas Rickert 2: (07:57) Hi all, I need to leave now. Thanks and bye!
Philip Corwin: (08:01) Bye all. Let's all stay respectful and accountable ;-)
Julf Helsingius: (08:01) Thanks!
