Sub-group Members: Alberto Soto, Asha Hemrajani, Avri Doria, Cheryl Langdon-Orr, Chris LaHatte, Herb Waye, Karel Douglas, Klaus Stoll, Mike Silber, Pam Little, Sebastien Bacholett, Sivasubramanian Muthusamy (12)
Staff: Bernie Turcotte, Brenda Brewer, Laena Rahim
Apologies:
**Please let Brenda know if your name has been left off the list (attendees or apologies).**
Transcript
Recording
The Adobe Connect recording is available here: https://icann.adobeconnect.com/p6p3kcx6m6b/
The audio recording is available here: http://audio.icann.org/accountability/ccwg-accountability-ombudsman-08aug16-en.mp3
Agenda
1. Call Admin and Roll Call / Apologies
2. Welcome - Opening Remarks
3. Setting the scene of WS2
- Work Stream 2 Design Team / Subgroups
- Design Team / Subgroup working methods
4. Round of *brief* Self Introductions from all Participants and Observers
5. Setting the scene of DT Ombudsman
- Discussion on WS1 result about Ombudsman
6. Discuss our work plan [short and medium term]
7. AOB / Next Meeting
Notes
1. Call Admin and Roll Call / Apologies (Sebastien Bachollet)
2. Welcome - Opening Remarks
- General remarks
3. Setting the scene of WS2 Work Stream 2 Design Team / Subgroups
Design Team / Subgroup working methods
- Reminder that this group reports to the CCWG-Accountability plenary.
- Time and day of the week meetings have been pre-booked to October 24 rotating between the 3 time slots of 0500, 1300 and 1900 UTC. Mostly Mondays
except for August `16 and September 6 which are on Tuesdays.
4. Round of *brief* Self Introductions from all Participants and Observers
- Introduction of participants.
- Review of the list of participants and observers.
5. Setting the scene of DT Ombudsman Discussion on WS1 result about Ombudsman
- Ombudsman role already expanded in WS1 wrt Reconsideration Requests
- CWG-Stewardship has also expanded with escalation for PTI.
- These roles are in addition to the Ombudsman existing role as defined in the Bylaws.
- what should be considered in WS2
- when are our deliverables due (March or June)?
- Are we talking about the Ombudsman or the office.
- Evaluate charter and operations vs industry best practices
- Recommend changes to make it effective.
- Additional roles
- How to avoid duplication?
- Advice to the next
- Ombudsman
- Sebastien Bachollet: Would seem to make sense to have our recommendations for March as the Board will be considering a new office of the Ombudsman.
- Chris LaHatte: changes should be brought as quickly as possible if any changes are needed.
- Herb Waye: any major changes will require a change to the Bylaws - so a quick changes may not be best.
- Avri Doria: many of the other groups may end up having co-dependencies with our work and as such it would be difficult to complete our work without having those results.
- Chris LaHatte: most important to get it right vs getting it done.
- Asha Hemrajani: Our focus here should be on the function of the office of the Ombudsman, rather than any particular person filling the role
- Herb Waye: Agree with Asha.
- Sebastien Bachollet: Dependencies will be critical.
- Chris LaHatte: see a possible strong link with Human Rights.
- Avri Doria: transparency, CEP processes
- Avri Doria: human rights perhaps as well.
- Avri Doria: SOAC accountability since where do they go when they have insoluble problems?
- Asha Hemrajani: +1 Avri - I think it would be useful to have "links" to or some kind of updates from the Transparency & CEP groups...perhaps even IRP?
- Cheryl Langdon-Orr 2: that role or roles (additional from other DT's) as outlined by Chris and referred to as dependencies can surely at least be described in General
Terms (as required language) as we do early work on this topic? - Sebastien Bachollet: Agree - we need to identify who will fill these linkage roles.
- Avri Doria: as a co-rapporteur of staff acct, i can fill that connector slot.
- Cheryl Langdon-Orr 2: same here for AC/SO Acct
- Sebastien Bachollet: CLO were there any stress tests dealing specifically with the Ombudsman? could you report at the next meeting? CLO: Yes.
- Sebastien Bachollet: Industry Best practices. International Omb. best practices is on our Wiki page. If anyone has any relevant documents could they please post it to the list.
Action Item - who would be willing to take on producing a comparison of the current defn vs industry best practices.
6. Discuss our work plan [short and medium term]
7. AOB / Next Meeting
- None
- Next meeting Tuesday Aug. 16 1300UTC
· Adjourned
Action Items
Action Item - who would be willing to take on producing a comparison of the current defn vs industry best practices.
Documents Presented
Chat Transcript
Brenda Brewer:Good day and welcome to WS2 Ombudsman Subgroup Meeting #1 on 8 August 2016 @ 05:00 UTC!
Chris LaHatte:Good evening
Herb Waye:Hello everyone from Canada
Bernard Turcotte Staff Support:hello
Sebastien (ALAC):Hello everyone from France? Welcome to this #1 call on "Ombudsman"
Alberto Soto:Hello everyone from Buenos Aires!
Asha Hemrajani 2:Good afternoon from Singapore
Avri Doria:good night from Providence
Avri Doria:are all subgroups required to meet weekely, or just they may meet weekly?
Sivasubramanian M:For the agenda item Self Intro: (not on audio) Sivasubramanian Muthusamy, from India, participating as an individual
Asha Hemrajani:I have lost audio
Bernard Turcotte Staff Support:Asha if you are speaking we are not hearing you
Sivasubramanian M:I don't have audio
Chris LaHatte:nor me
Sivasubramanian M:now yes
Asha Hemrajani:ok I hear you now
Chris LaHatte:yes
Laena Rahim:I am on listen only mode. Laena Rahim, ICANN staff.
Alberto Soto:Sorry, I have problems with my microphone.I just want to say that I have a special interest this topic, two situations that should support personally.
KAREL DOUGLAS:Hi ALL
Cheryl Langdon-Orr 2:hi Karen
KAREL DOUGLAS:Hey Hi Cheryl...Its great to see and hear you
KAREL DOUGLAS:"see"
Cheryl Langdon-Orr 2:argh auto correct stricken... Karel
KAREL DOUGLAS:No problem at all
Cheryl Langdon-Orr 2:I agree Seb that proposed time line makes sense to me
Mike Silber:is there a dependency that is required of this WS? I think no - so let it take as long as it needs
Chris LaHatte:There is nothing dependent on the changes
Asha Hemrajani:I agree with the earlier timeline, as long as we are able to take the time that we need.
Cheryl Langdon-Orr 2:I don't think so Mike
Avri Doria:Mike, in the end, I expect it will take as long as it takes.
Cheryl Langdon-Orr 2:and I am in a noisy place so will type and stay mute as preference
Mike Silber:why Cheryl?
Avri Doria:i think we need to dig into the issues and see where the agreements are, and aren't, to know how long it is going to take.
Klaus Stoll:Sorry for late checking in.
Cheryl Langdon-Orr 2:I was agreeing with you that there were no obvious dependencies
Mike Silber:Avri +1
Cheryl Langdon-Orr 2:yes it will take as long as it needs to, but some product by Copenhagen is doable IMO
Mike Silber:I think herb is doing just fine in the role
Chris LaHatte:+1 Mike
Herb Waye:Thanks :-)
Asha Hemrajani:Our focus here should be on the function of the office of the Ombudsman, rather than any particular person filling the role
Cheryl Langdon-Orr 2:Office of
Sivasubramanian M:Asha, the question could also be interpreted to imply that the "Ombudman" could be plural
Chris LaHatte:+ 1 Herb and Asha
Asha Hemrajani:@Siva exactly
Sivasubramanian M:It goes without saying that the Ombudsman, is not the individual holding the office, but the office
Mike Silber:does it make any difference? low workload, the office has 1 or a few people. high workload - more people
Sivasubramanian M:Mike, I hope you are not talking about the Staff at the Office of the Ombudsman
Avri Doria:transparency, CEP processes
Avri Doria:human rights perhaps as well.
Avri Doria:SOAC accountabilty since where do they go when they have insoluble problems?
Asha Hemrajani:+1 Avri - I think it would be useful to have "links" to or some kind of updates from the Transparency & CEP groups...perhaps even IRP?
Mike Silber:Siva, does it make any difference? or are we making a distinction of no import
Avri Doria:especially since we have spoke o f arole for ombudsman in IRP, i think
Alberto Soto:+1 chris
Mike Silber:I don't think those are dependencies. I think we need a good process that the others can use
Avri Doria:and if staff were allowed to talk to the ombdudsman, maybe even staff accountabity.
Asha Hemrajani:@Mike @Siva re Office of the Ombudsman, it shouldn't matter now whether it is one or more persons. My point was that our focus should be on functions that the Office of the Ombudsman carries out.
Chris LaHatte:Some of us are in several groups
Mike Silber:Asha +1
Cheryl Langdon-Orr 2:that role or roles (additional from other DT's) as outlined by Chris and refered to as dependencies can surely at least be described in General Terms (as required language) as we do early work on this topic?
Chris LaHatte:+1 Cheryl
Avri Doria:as a co-rapporteur of staff acct, i can fill that connector slot.
Sivasubramanian M:@MIke The question, interpreted this way, introduces a new way of looking at the Design Task on Ombudsman. Could the Ombusman be more than one person? Could the Ombudsman be a bench of Two or more?
Cheryl Langdon-Orr 2:same here for AC/SO Acct
Mike Silber:I don't see why not Siva
Sivasubramanian M:Thans Mike.
Mike Silber:I think traditional hierarchies are not that useful.
Cheryl Langdon-Orr 2:yes
Cheryl Langdon-Orr 2:there was reference to the Office in our ST's
Asha Hemrajani:Indeed - since we are a design team, we can think out of the box for a solution that would fit ICANN
Mike Silber:speaking of which - could we use the gender neutral term: ombud
Cheryl Langdon-Orr 2::-)
Chris LaHatte:I agree with Mike, that is developing as the better term
Herb Waye:I agree Mike
Chris LaHatte:If you want i have a link to an academic article on the gender neutral term use
Cheryl Langdon-Orr 2:thx Chris,
Asha Hemrajani:Ombudsperson
Sivasubramanian M:And, the question, in another way, removes any room for personalizing the Ombudsman, any criticism or praise to the performance of the function of the Ombudsman is not directed at the person holding the office, but the 'Ombudsman' irrespective of the person having been in offie for a year or a day, the 'Ombudsman" is separated from the person holding the office. In fact, for an office as high as this, the person is not addressed, but the office.
Avri Doria:i like ombud, with the familiar ombuddy - from omnia buddy - everybodies friends
Mike Silber:a bit clumsy: ombud is short and simple
Mike Silber:nice Avri
Asha Hemrajani:@Avri ombuddy is taking it to a different plane :-)
Avri Doria:i like the way Seb just said 'ombuds.' flowed off the toungue quite smoothly.
Asha Hemrajani:yes it needs an "s"
Asha Hemrajani:Ombuds instead of ombud
Mike Silber:not usual and it confuses the possessive
Chris LaHatte:I agree with ombuds too. If you want some research on framework I could help
Herb Waye:It is referred to as Ombudsman in the bylaws but nothing prevents us from using Ombuds everywhere else
Cheryl Langdon-Orr 2:Office of the Ombuds / Ombuds Office... works
Avri Doria:no worse than any plural does with possesive. it takes into account that it is an offoce of >1
Cheryl Langdon-Orr 2:yup
Avri Doria:one ombud, many ombuds. and OmbudsOffice
Cheryl Langdon-Orr 2:thx all... I need to drop off now... bye
Herb Waye:One ombuds, two ombuds, it is a shortening of a foreign word
Chris LaHatte:https://ombudsresearch.org.uk/2015/06/
Avri Doria:ok Herb
Asha Hemrajani:Thanks for the link Chris
Mike Silber:is we drop the
Asha Hemrajani:Herb, I sent you a pm
KAREL DOUGLAS:thanks Chris
Avri Doria:thanks and good night, for real this time.
Bernard Turcotte Staff Support:BYE ALL
Klaus Stoll:Bye, sorry that I came in late!
Chris LaHatte:That blog is generally really useful for others comments
Alberto Soto:Thanks!!! Bye
Sivasubramanian M:Thank you
Asha Hemrajani:Thanks
