Members: Alan Greenberg, Becky Burr, Cheryl Langdon-Orr, Finn Petersen, Fiona Asonga, Izumi Okutani, Jordan Carter, Jorge Villa, Julie Hammer, Leon Sanchez, Mathieu Weill, Robin Gross, Rosalia Morales, Sebastien Bachollet, Steve DelBianco, Thomas Rickert (16)
Participants: Aarti Bhavana, Alain Bidron, Avri Doria, Chris LaHatte, Edmon Chung, Edward Morris, Erich Schweighofer, Farzaneh Badii, Greg Shatan, Herb Waye, Julf Helsingius, Kavouss Arasteh, Matthew Shears, Niels ten Oever, Rafik Dammak, Ricardo Holmquist, Rinalia Abdul Rahim, Ron da Silva, Sabine Meyer, Seun Ojedeji, Sonigitu Ekpe, Tatiana Tropina, Tom Dale (23)
Guests: John Poole
Staff: Bernie Turcotte, Brenda Brewer, Karen Mulberry, Larisa Gurnick, Laena Rahim, Nigel Hickson,
Apologies: David McAuley, Lori Schulman
**Please let Brenda know if your name has been left off the list (attendees or apologies).**
Transcript
Recording
Agenda
Notes
Update on ATRT Implementation – Larisa Gurnick / Avri Doria
Updates Travel Support/Budget – Bernard Turcotte
- Kavous Arasteh: Is the retrun for the 9th or 10th if there is work going on on the 9th? to be clarified by staff. Action Item.
Status of remaining Staff Papers Update – Karen Mulberry
Status of WS2 Subgroups
- Steve DelBianco: (presents slides on this)
- Steve DelBianco [GNSO - CSG]: SOAC Acct draft is at https://docs.google.com/document/d/1WTRZZJ9B3Q6BHP6AlDHmoiep8NeshNpomBNM4bBXYpA/edit?ts=57ba7a43
- Kavouss Arasteh: Is this Mutual Accountability too much detail for this meeting.
- Farzaneh Badii: This is the mandate but the questions presented by SDB are the ones which need answers.
- Steve DelBianco: Participants should provide us with input on this.
- Kavouss Arasteh: I have submitted dozens of questions to the group which need to be answered otherwise it may not be productive to discuss some thing on abstract
- Avri Doria: There is no group which includes all possible stakeholders. However, each group has mechanisms for obtaining input from others.
- Mathieu Weill: As a ccNSO appointed member - I can assume with quite a bit of assurance that the ccNSO is not expecting that it be required to be more accountable to the community. Unless we get a clear signal from all chartering organizations this should not be part of the scope for this group.
- Kavouss Arasteh: We should not go too deeply into theory, implementing such things is very hard and we need to limit ourselves to things which can be implemented - especially mutual accountability.
- Sebastien Bachollet: Important to allow the group to do its work to help get better accountability for SOACs.
- Steve DelBianco [GNSO - CSG]: Our charter is to "review and develop" any "improved processes" for SOAC accountability. As Farzi said, we have to address this, Kavous
- Kavouss Arasteh: Until we do not have a clear idea on how the issue will be implemented it is waste of time to go to too much theory
- Sebastien Bachollet: (presentation of slides). No questions or comments.
ICANN 57 Hyderabad Face-to-Face meeting proposal - Co–Chairs - Thomas Rickert
- Sebastien Bachollet: Good proposal.
- Steve DelBianco: We need to prepare our questions properly to get the input we need - we need to focus on key questions.
- Avri Doria: Steve is right, we need reports prior to the meeting but it does provide good opportunity for discussing key issues.
- Thomas Rickert: Does this mean we should invite other members of the community?
- Avri Doria: this would be good, but if not steeped in this the morning session would be best.
- Kavous Arasteh: We need to prepare properly so the time is not wasted - we need to work on hard issues.
- Thomas Rickert: Agree and we will if people support this format. General support for the porposed format.
AOB
- Kavous Arasteh: each group should prepare a progress report for ICANN 57. Groups have to listen to everyone especially with respect to Mutual Accountability.
- Cheryl Langdon Orr: SOAC co-rapporteurs are doing a good job looking at what needs to be done.
- Thomas Rickert: Adjourned.
Next CCWG Plenary meeting – 13 September 1300 UTC
Action Items:
- Staff to confirm if there are sessions attendees need to be at on November 9th or if they can leave on the 9th.
Documents
AC Chat
Brenda Brewer: (8/30/2016 06:16) Good day all and welcome to CCWG ACCT Meeting #4 on 30 August 2016 @ 05:00 UTC!
Leon Sanchez (Co-Chair ALAC): (06:55) hello everyone
Kavouss Arasteh: (06:56) Hello Chief
Leon Sanchez (Co-Chair ALAC): (06:57) You honor me Kavouss but I don't deserve that title my dear friend :-)
Mathieu Weill, ccNSO, co-chair: (06:58) Hello everyone !
Bernard Turcotte Staff Support: (06:59) hi all
Leon Sanchez (Co-Chair ALAC): (06:59) Now the Chief is in :-) Welcome back Mathieu!
Ricardo Holmquist- ISOC Venezuela: (07:00) good day to all
Sabine Meyer: (07:00) hello everyone
Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): (07:00) Hi all
Kavouss Arasteh: (07:01) BernardGood Morning Geneva time Please advise the begining and the end of ICANN meetingIn order to attend CCWG Members need to arrive on 01 November and leave in the afternoon of 09 OR in the morning of 10 November, depending the end of the ICANN meeting This is important for flight booking and hotel reservation Please kindly clarify the above.
Herb Waye: (07:02) Good morning all
Kavouss Arasteh: (07:02) dEAR bRENDA
Farzaneh Badii: (07:02) Hi
Kavouss Arasteh: (07:02) hAS THE OPERATOR CALLED ME PLS
Brenda Brewer: (07:03) one moment please Kavouss
nigel hickson: (07:03) good morning
Tatiana Tropina: (07:03) Hi all!
Aarti Bhavana: (07:04) Good Morning all!
Kavouss Arasteh: (07:05) Staff are kindly requestzed to provide or update Master Plan for sub groups . I have a medical check up and need to know the timing
Kavouss Arasteh: (07:05) Reggards
Kavouss Arasteh: (07:06) Has the meeting started? since I have not been diaeld up yet
Mathieu Weill, ccNSO, co-chair: (07:06) Yes Kavouss, the meeting has started
Brenda Brewer: (07:06) They are calling you Kavouss. Already tried 3 times to reach you Kavouss.
Kavouss Arasteh: (07:07) pls tell them to tryagain
Thomas Rickert: (07:07) Sorry, ATRT 2 -
Thomas Rickert: (07:07) I misspoke, too learly in my time zone :-)
Brenda Brewer: (07:07) They continue to try reaching you Kavouss. Thank you.
Sabine Meyer: (07:08) +1 Thomas :)
Kavouss Arasteh: (07:08) tks
Jordan Carter (ccNSO member): (07:08) hi all - now on adobe room
Kavouss Arasteh: (07:09) i am not yet called
Brenda Brewer: (07:09) Kavouss, when operator calls your number they get a beep sound then the line disconnects.
Kavouss Arasteh: (07:10) DEAR OPERATOR AWAITING FOR YOUR DIAL UP
Chris LaHatte: (07:11) sound is a problem
Kavouss Arasteh: (07:11) I am now connected tks
Mathieu Weill, ccNSO, co-chair: (07:12) @Chris : sound is good on my side ?
Chris LaHatte: (07:13) intermittent here
Sabine Meyer: (07:13) fine here, too. maybe it's a European thing ;)
Julf Helsingius: (07:14) Indeed OK (here in Europe)
Farzaneh Badii: (07:15) yes in Germany we have really good Internet connection which you are missing out on
Tatiana Tropina: (07:15) Very good sound in Europe, yes.
Tatiana Tropina: (07:15) (in Germany :)))
Kavouss Arasteh: (07:17) In Switzerland, the internet connection ,if not better than Germany but still is equal
Julf Helsingius: (07:17) yes
Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): (07:20) thanks Larisa
Rinalia Abdul Rahim: (07:22) good emphasis on connections/linkages, Avri.
Kavouss Arasteh: (07:22) CCWG Sub Groups should make every possible effort to avoid any duplication of what has been already done
Izumi Okutani(ASO): (07:23) Thanks Larisa, very helpful update. I missed the areas of overlap with ATRT and WS2. What were thye?
Izumi Okutani(ASO): (07:23) I have issue with voice - sorry
Steve DelBianco [GNSO - CSG]: (07:24) Izumi: 6 of the 9 WS2 projects are within the scope of ATRT.
Steve DelBianco [GNSO - CSG]: (07:24) that's why we did a CCWG letter to the board pointing out the overlap
jorge villa (ASO): (07:24) hi, will we have access to this slides?
Kavouss Arasteh: (07:24) CCWG Sub Groups should make every possible effort to avoid any duplication of what has been already done
Izumi Okutani(ASO): (07:25) Thanks yes!
Izumi Okutani(ASO): (07:25) Thanks also to Steve for the reference - it would be helpful to have the slides as Jorge as mentioned as well.
FIONA ASONGA (ASO): (07:27) I have lost sound
Farzaneh Badii: (07:28) it’s interesting how much visa gets attention this time and is discussed at ICANN. is it because those who did not usually apply for a visa, have to now and perhaps are facing hurdles? I wonder. (not a real question)
Rinalia Abdul Rahim: (07:28) Folks, for my country the local visa "authority" requires two physical photos for India. you may need to check the local site on requirements.
Kavouss Arasteh: (07:28) BernardGood Morning Geneva time Please advise the begining and the end of ICANN meetingIn order to attend CCWG Members need to arrive on 01 November and leave in the afternoon of 09 OR in the morning of 10 November, depending the end of the ICANN meeting This is important for flight booking and hotel reservation Please kindly clarify the above.
Larisa Gurnick: (07:29) Please note that the latest status of ATRT2 implementation - https://community.icann.org/display/atrt/ATRT2+Implementation+Program
Tatiana Tropina: (07:29) Farzaneh, no, I think it's also because even those who apply for many visas (like me) find this visa impossible.
Finn Petersen, GAC - DK: (07:30) When will we be contacted by ICANN on flight reservation, when travel support have been approved
Farzaneh Badii: (07:30) Tatiana, I have seen worse. but I am Iranian so ...
Bernard Turcotte Staff Support: (07:32) @Finn - should be soon
Larisa Gurnick: (07:32) Staff will be providing links to the wiki page where the slides will be posted along with the recording and the notes/chats.
Finn Petersen, GAC - DK: (07:32) Thx Bernard
Kavouss Arasteh: (07:34) If 09 November is not a real meeting day then it should be clarified for every body
Bernard Turcotte Staff Support: (07:34) Not at this time Leon
Karen Mulberry: (07:34) Here is the link to the CCWG ATRT3 letter to the Board https://community.icann.org/display/WEIA/Documents?preview=/59641302/61605206/CCWG-LetterOnCollisionsOfWS2andATRT3-SDB-BTDraft%3DClean%5B2%5D.pdf
Steve DelBianco [GNSO - CSG]: (07:35) @Izumi -- see that letter for overlap between WS2 and ATRT3
Jordan Carter (ccNSO member): (07:37) Steve, where are we at with ICANN responding to that point?
Izumi Okutani(ASO) 2: (07:38) Thanks Steve noted. Jordan, my understanding is we are waiting for ICANN board response (but perhaps other have more accurate update).
Steve DelBianco [GNSO - CSG]: (07:38) SOAC Acct draft is at https://docs.google.com/document/d/1WTRZZJ9B3Q6BHP6AlDHmoiep8NeshNpomBNM4bBXYpA/edit?ts=57ba7a43
Farzaneh Badii: (07:39) staff might want to look at ours when coming up with theirs :)
Avri Doria: (07:45) WS2 Staff accontabilty is waiting for the report before we go ahead since we have specific questions that need to be answered on current situation. I am sure we will borrow form other work from other WS2 as possible. I am sure there are related areas, but I also expect it to be somewhat diffferent.
Farzaneh Badii: (07:45) Thanks Steve . I have nothing to add either
Kavouss Arasteh: (07:48) lEON
Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): (07:49) Yes that would be appreciated to get tht sort of wider input at any time
Kavouss Arasteh: (07:50) I have submitted dozen of questions to the group which need to be answered otherwise it may not be productive to discuss some thing on abstruct
Farzaneh Badii: (07:51) There are many questions raised by the group members which we need to go through.
Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): (07:51) thx Avri
Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): (07:52) and we are discussing the Farzi... at east the meetings I am going to are ;-
Farzaneh Badii: (07:52) yes. we also re-discuss.
Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): (07:53) indeed!!!
Steve DelBianco [GNSO - CSG]: (07:53) "other dimension" means accountability to the targeted group
Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): (07:53) noted Matthieu
Steve DelBianco [GNSO - CSG]: (07:54) Our charter is to "review and develop" any "improved processes" for SOAC accountability. As Farzi said, we have to address this, Kavouss
Kavouss Arasteh: (07:55) Sebastien
Kavouss Arasteh: (07:56) who is the community?
Kavouss Arasteh: (07:57) until we do not have a clear idea on how the issue will be implemented it is waste of time to go to too much theroryt
Kavouss Arasteh: (07:57) Sebastien , we should not be acting as a theotian
Jordan Carter (ccNSO member): (07:57) the mutual accountability round table is an important, good and subtle idea, I hope the subgroup gives it a fair hearing
Avri Doria: (07:58) Jordan, I like the diea too.
Steve DelBianco [GNSO - CSG]: (07:58) we are looking at MAR, Jordan. As suggested, MAR has no actionable outcomes. It is just a sharing of best practices
Sonigitu Ekpe: (07:58) I think it is important for an implementation strategies so as to understand workable action plans.
Kavouss Arasteh: (07:59) Jordan,
Farzaneh Badii: (07:59) Yes we are looking at MAR. it is one of the tracks the group is working on. and it is not the only track.
Mathieu Weill, ccNSO, co-chair: (07:59) Sometimes, "soft" actions with no actionable outcomes are more powerful than complex processes
Steve DelBianco [GNSO - CSG]: (07:59) see page 6 of our SOAC doc for Willie Currie's description of the MAR (Mutual Accountability Roundtable)
Steve DelBianco [GNSO - CSG]: (07:59) https://docs.google.com/document/d/1WTRZZJ9B3Q6BHP6AlDHmoiep8NeshNpomBNM4bBXYpA/edit?ts=57ba7a43
Kavouss Arasteh: (07:59) the mutual accountability round table is an important, good and subtle idea, I hope the subgroup gives it a fair hearing? But it is not implementable just theory
Avri Doria: (08:00) Kavouss, it is our job to figure how to implement. I see no proof that is is unimplementable.
Farzaneh Badii: (08:00) Yes Mathieu I agree.
Jordan Carter (ccNSO member): (08:01) of course it's implementable.
Kavouss Arasteh: (08:01) i se3e no proof that is implementable
Jordan Carter (ccNSO member): (08:01) it's a group of people with an agenda. It's as implementable as this meeting we are in right now is.
Kavouss Arasteh: (08:01) This would bring bread to some people but not any thing to public
Jordan Carter (ccNSO member): (08:02) No bread. It's about people exchanging views and having honest and open dialogue
Jordan Carter (ccNSO member): (08:02) not a strong point of the ICANN system, one has to say.
Kavouss Arasteh: (08:02) Some people push for theory
Kavouss Arasteh: (08:02) Avri you must poove that it is implementable
Sonigitu Ekpe: (08:03) I think it is important that the public benefit more than a few.
Steve DelBianco [GNSO - CSG]: (08:03) Good work, Sebastien.
Rinalia Abdul Rahim: (08:03) +1
Kavouss Arasteh: (08:03) public would not benefit but those consultant will do
Rinalia Abdul Rahim: (08:04) there is a password for mute?
Sebastien (ALAC): (08:04) Thanks Steve but I want to thanks you and your co-rapporteur are you are my example
Jordan Carter (ccNSO member): (08:05) it's not a public accountability forum, that's not what has been suggested by Willie or anyone else. Across andbetween the ICANN siloes, there's not a culture of people asking open and sometimes hard questions about successes, failures, what worked, etc. That would be a useful addition. The people are the volunteers, staff and board members - not consultants.
Jordan Carter (ccNSO member): (08:05) maybe I should write this up properly and put it on the subgroup list :-)
Aarti Bhavana: (08:05) This is the agenda for 2nd November?
Mathieu Weill, ccNSO, co-chair: (08:05) Yes Aarti
Aarti Bhavana: (08:06) Thanks Mathieu
Kavouss Arasteh: (08:07) Avri , please carefully read my questions raised to the ACCOUNTABILITY GROUP, if you answere half of them I will agree that it may be practicle. I am sure no real answere would be given
Kavouss Arasteh: (08:07) Theroy and theory
Kavouss Arasteh: (08:08) sorry , theory and theory
Steve DelBianco [GNSO - CSG]: (08:08) Our question earlier on this call was a sanity check, of sorts
Kavouss Arasteh: (08:10) We need to be pragmatic and not theoricians
Jordan Carter (ccNSO member): (08:10) Kavouss: we will. If we can design all the work we have so far, this is easy. I am intrigued as to why you are so opposed to the concept.
Kavouss Arasteh: (08:12) dEAR jORDAN
Kavouss Arasteh: (08:12) pLS READ MY QUESTIONS THEN COME BACK AND REVIOSIT YIOUR STRONG COMMENTS
Avri Doria: (08:12) i like the idea of coffe breaks, but i hope the coffee just flows even when not on break.
Sabine Meyer (GAC - Germany): (08:14) "He who controls the coffee controls the internet."
Jordan Carter (ccNSO member): (08:15) I have spent a bit of time looking for your questions Kavouss but no luck finding them - can you tell me which email list they are on?
Matthew Shears: (08:15) + 1 Steve and Avri - need some really good prep work as we don't have a huge amount of time to address thorny issues as a whole
Farzaneh Badii: (08:16) Jordan, they are in the google doc of SO/AC Acc sub group
Jordan Carter (ccNSO member): (08:16) ah great thanks Farzaneh
Matthew Shears: (08:17) + 1 Avri on AM panorama, PM deep dive
Alan Greenberg: (08:17) Remember, we are meeting BEFORE most people will ge tthere.
Ricardo Holmquist- ISOC Venezuela: (08:18) in fact most people will be in a plane arriving there
Avri Doria: (08:20) there will be a number who get there early. there may be many who are not traveling at all on line
Jordan Carter (ccNSO member): (08:20) programme looks pretty good
Jordan Carter (ccNSO member): (08:21) I agree with Kavouss on this point, need updates :)
Julf Helsingius: (08:21) I will have to participate on-line - won't make Hyderabad :(
Farzaneh Badii: (08:22) we are still talking about MAR?
Steve DelBianco [GNSO - CSG]: (08:22) Kavouss -- MAR was an idea from our independent expert Willie Currie. Not my idea
Farzaneh Badii: (08:23) Yes. and It is required by WS1 to evaluate MAR in our group.
Farzaneh Badii: (08:23) and other issues
Avri Doria: (08:23) i sometimes find that when someone does not agree with an answer they do not consider the question answered. so the conversations goes on.
Farzaneh Badii: (08:23) Thanks Cheryl
Sebastien (ALAC): (08:24) Co-rap of the SO/AC account you have my full suport
Bernard Turcotte Staff Support: (08:24) bye all
Tatiana Tropina: (08:24) thanks everyone! Have a great day
Karen Mulberry: (08:24) Thank you all!
Julf Helsingius: (08:24) Thanks everybody!
Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): (08:24) thank you Seb and others
FIONA ASONGA (ASO): (08:24) bye
Farzaneh Badii: (08:24) bye
Sabine Meyer (GAC - Germany): (08:24) good bye everyone
jorge villa (ASO): (08:24) bye!
Erich Schweighofer: (08:24) Bye everybdoy.
nigel hickson: (08:24) goodbye; thanks
Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): (08:24) bye
