Members: Alan Greenberg, Andreea Brambilla, Cheryl Langdon-Orr, Finn Petersen, Fiona Asonga, Jordan Carter, Jorge Villa, Julie Hammer, Kavouss Arasteh, Leon Sanchez, Mathieu Weill, Michael Abejuela, Pedro da Silva, Robin Gross, Rosalia Morales, Sebastien Bachollet, Steve DelBianco, Thomas Rickert, Tijani Ben Jemaa (19)
Participants: Aarti Bhavana, Anne Aikman-Scalese, Avri Doria, Barrack Otieno, Cherine Chalaby, Chris Wilson, David McAuley, Edward Morris, Erich Schweighofer, Greg Shatan, Harold Arcos, Herb Waye, John Laprise, Jorge Cancio, Julf Helsingius, Keith Drazek, Lousewies van der Laan, Megan Richards, Phil Marano, Philip Corwin, Ricardo Holmquist, Ron da Silva, Rudi Daniels, Stephen Deerhake, Tom Dale, Wale Bakare (26)
Observers and Guests: Igor Resende, Ryan Carroll
Staff: Bernard Turcotte, Berry Cobb, Brenda Brewer, Elizabeth Andrews, Hillary Jett, Karen Mulberry, Marika Konings, Nathalie Vergnolle, Yvette Gigneaux
Apologies: Farzanah Badii
** If your name is missing from attendance or apology, please send note to acct-staff@icann.org **
Transcript
Recording
Agenda
1. Introduction, update to SOIs, reminder on standards of behaviour
2. Administration
3. Legal Committee
4. Follow up on Action Items from ICANN 57 Hyderabad
5. Updates/Presentation from sub-groups
6. AOB
Notes
Notes (including relevant parts of chat):
1. Introduction, update to SOIs, reminder on standards of behaviour
Leon Sanchez: Updates to SOIs (none).
2. Administration
Leon Sanchez: IRP-IOT Public Comment period open. No Comments. Presentation of WS2 timeline.
Sebastien Bachollet: Ombudsman - the review of the Ombudsman office will cause us to be late - so this is a request to move to track 1.
Leon Sanchez: Action Item - please update slide accordingly.
Kavouss Arasteh: changing of tracks should be decided by the plenary.
Leon Sanchez: KA this is what we are doing here. this being said SB’s request seems to be reasonable.
Alan Greenberg: If we refuse to honour change request from subgroups, what punishment do we extract if they then do not deliver?
Greg Shatan: The original choice was made by the subgroup, so I think changes should be up to the subgroup as well.
Robin Gross [GNSO-NCSG]: Good point, Alan. We are volunteers.
Alan Greenberg: Perhaps remove rapporteur and replace with people who refuse to agree to their request.
Avri Doria: how did track 2 become shorter time frame than track 1?
Alan Greenberg: Track 2 allocation was simply those groups who hoped to deliver quickly. Reality has a way of changing our perceptions.
Greg Shatan: @Avri, I think it always was, or there's a numbering issue. I can assure you that the Juris SG was always on the long track.
Mathieu Weill: KA co-chairs will be monitoring this closely.
Leon Sanchez: Travel assistance presentation for ICANN58
3. Legal Committee
Leon Sanchez: Replacement of Athina Fragkouli by Michael Abejuela. Also we have not had any response from ICANN legal to the questions we have forwarded.
Sebastien Bachollet: when the LC makes a decision of who to send it to should it not come back to the sub-group.
Leon Sanchez: We will receive input and then share that response and then decide if we need further input.
4. Follow up on Action Items from ICANN 57 Hyderabad
Thomas Rickert: Response to SC sent. Letter to SOAC chairs on ATRT3 has been drafted and will be sent in the next few days. Would ask the members to track this in their respective SOACs. SOAC accountability sub-group request
Cheryl Langdon-Orr: Have not received any responses yet but we are being updated on the progress regarding this in various SOACs. As such it would seem that we will be receiving replies.
Thomas Rickert: the GAC is considering its response and hope to submit for the end of next week. Any question regarding this? Onto Transparency.
Mathieu Weill, ccNSO, co-chair: ccNSO contribution also being considered by council now
Chris Wilson: the intention is to provide a revised draft for next week.
Thomas Rickert: Re discussions with Goran Marby. Concern regarding the complaints officer reporting to legal, the name complaints officer, the relationship to the Ombudsman, the use of the word Organization as well as participation in the 5 internal staff groups.
Action Item - We will have a call of expressions of interest for our participation in this groups.
Jordan Carter: what would the commitment be to participate?
Thomas Rickert: We will provide that information with the request for an expression of interest.
Jorge Cancio (GAC Switzerland): could you circulate this info (Thomas just explained) on list?
Thomas Rickert, CCWG Co-Chair: Use of the word Organization - many feel it is, and has always been, all of ICANN including the community - and as such disagree with shifting the use to only mean staff (as opposed to calling staff Staff). Concern with the Complaints Officer reporting to ICANN legal.Concern with calling it the Complaints Officer, several alternate suggestions including Issues Office etc.5 internal groups - can the CCWG participate?
5. Updates/Presentation from sub-groups
Mathieu Weill: will start with SOAC Acct.
Cheryl Langdon-Orr: Presentation of update. Haved requested to move delivery to track 1.
Mathieu Weill: Niels ten Oever could not attend today - he has reported great progress in Hyderabad and a document is being discussed which we hope will be sent to the plenary for consideration.
Ed Morris: Presentation of slides.
David McAuley: It may be good to call this a negotiation - but what the CEP group could do is add some formality around it - maybe using the IRP secretariat.
Sebastien Bachollet: Why do this twice for the same topic?
Alan Greenberg: Not designing process for the sake of process - we have been asked to do this - we probably need case studies to understand this properly.
David McAuley (RySG): I think input from Sam or Amy Stathos on prior experience would be helpful
Greg Shatan: Mediator is a good idea at this point. DM recognizes we may need to make changes to the Bylaws if we go this way. A mediator would level the playing field.
Berry Cobb: For the CEP topic, this is also being discussed (briefly at this stage) within the Subsequent Rnds PDP. I suspect further deliberations will continue at least as to how the process worked or could be improved as it relates to the 2012 round. The WS2-CEP team may want to keep a tab on any of those discussions.
Avri Doria: couldn't the form of the mediation be open to the mediator based on their experience and what they see facing them? if we had mediation that is.
Robin Gross [GNSO-NCSG]: One of the main problems of the CEP is the lack of meaningful written rules about the process
Avri Doria: I accept that the bylaws are not cut in stone and could be changed is necessary. judging whether it is necessary or not remains a question.
Greg Shatan: I'd be open to flexibility and exercise of judgment of the mediator (after all, a mediation is only as good as the judgment of the mediator) but the overall concept is to facilitate the negotiation.
Mathieu Weill: EM you have been given a number of suggestions. AG's suggestion is good. Would suggest you come back to the plenary with a suggestion so we can discuss this. Next question EM?
Ed Morris: IRP encourages conciliation discussion - is it the same as CEP.
David McAuley: Sensible Bylaw and we will deal with it in the IRP-IOT.
Mathieu Weill: we have cleared up the second question and the IOT will be handling the conciliation aspect.
Kavouss Arasteh: Jurisdiction - after 11 meetings we are nowhere. We discuss things and then put them aside and go to other things. Main issue is immunity - there are 2 meanings - uncertain which one we are talking about.
Greg Shatan: Disagree with the characterization of the group - do agree we are having difficulties agreeing on what we should be doing.
Kavouss Arasteh 3: Greg, yes, we agree to disagree .Then we will get no where
Avri Doria: There is the work some agreed to do, and there is the work that is called for in the Bylaws and the Recommendations.
Pedro da Silva - [GAC Brasil]: I don't agree that the work to put together a questionnaire has been complicated. We just need to agree on the formulation of a third additional question and that is it.
Greg Shatan: We have not yet agreed that a third question will go out.
Edward Morris: Thanks Greg
Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): I see it as progress yes Pedro
David McAuley: I get frustrated with Jurisdiction work but this is just a reflection of how difficult the work is and Greg is doing good work leading the group.
Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): Indeed David kinda why it is called "building consensus" it is actual Work1
Pedro da Silva - [GAC Brasil]: @Greg: there was considerable support for it and I don't see why the coRapporteurs do not recognize it.
Jorge Cancio (GAC Switzerland): Just lost connection... but to sum my comment up: all are invited to contribute to the two docs we are working on. And we have to find agreement on the three questions to be sent out to stakeholders worldwide on their experiences with ICANN jurisdiction
Greg Shatan: There was both support and opposition. We'll need to work it out.
David McAuley (RySG): +1 Greg
Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): Yup
Kavouss Arasteh: disagree with how questions were drafted.
Jorge Cancio (GAC Switzerland): Let' work on the two docs with specific ideas and wording. And let's be flexible on the questions being drafted - after all we are asking for input from the wider community
Pedro da Silva - [GAC Brasil]: +1 Jorge
Philip Corwin: Optimism is the triumph of hope over experience.
Mathieu Weill: I am following the work of this work very closely. There is progress that is being made although it is slow. We need to trust the process. Let us work on finding areas of agreement and we can build on this. We look forward to an update from the group on the next plenary. Moving to AOB now.
6. AOB
Nathalie Vergonelle: update on publication of dashboard - still waiting for input from 4 groups.
Mathieu Weill: We have cancelled the call the call next week. Adjourned.
Action Items
- Action Item - please update slide accordingly.
- Action Item - We will have a call of expressions of interest for our participation in this groups.
Documents
AC Chat
Brenda Brewer: (11/30/2016 12:27) Good day all and welcome to CCWG Accountabiltiy WS2 Plenary Meeting #9 on 30 November 2016 @ 19:00 UTC!
Kavouss Arasteh 3: (12:55) Dear Brenda,
Kavouss Arasteh 3: (12:55) Pls kindly remind ther operator to dial me up
Kavouss Arasteh 3: (12:55) Tks Kavouss
Brenda Brewer: (12:55) Thank you, Kavouss. They have you on the list!
Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): (12:56) hieveryone
Julf Helsingius: (12:56) Hi!
Julf Helsingius: (12:57) We have 3 copies of Kavouss tonight? :)
Bernard Turcotte Staff Support: (12:57) hello all
Brenda Brewer: (12:57) Yes we do!
Leon Sanchez (Co-Chair, ALAC): (12:57) Hello everyone
Thomas Rickert, CCWG Co-Chair: (12:58) Hi all!
David McAuley (RySG): (12:59) Hello all
Alan Greenberg: (13:00) Could I please add an AOB of whether there will be a F2F in Copenhagen? Deadline for travel dates is early in December
Jorge Cancio (GAC Switzerland): (13:00) hi there
Kavouss Arasteh 3: (13:00) Alan+1
Ricardo Holmquist: (13:00) good day everyone
Leon Sanchez (Co-Chair, ALAC): (13:00) We will speak to it Alan
Pedro da Silva - [GAC Brasil]: (13:00) Hi all!
Mathieu Weill, ccNSO, co-chair: (13:01) Hello
Aarti Bhavana: (13:01) hi all
Jorge Cancio (GAC Switzerland): (13:02) 20 minutes per point ;P
Michael Abejuela (ARIN): (13:02) Hello everyone
Julf Helsingius: (13:03) There is a bit of a funny echo
Kavouss Arasteh 3: (13:03) Pls include the request from Alan supported by me under OB
Julf Helsingius: (13:03) Anyone with an open mic?
jorge villa (ASO): (13:03) HI Michael, good to see you :)
Mathieu Weill, ccNSO, co-chair: (13:04) @Kavouss, this is going to be addressed before AOB
Kavouss Arasteh 3: (13:05) tKS cHIEF
Cherine Chalaby: (13:06) Hi Everyone
Kavouss Arasteh 3: (13:06) Hi Cherine
Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): (13:07) Please note that the SOAC_Acc SG has formally requested we be shifted from Track 2 as shown to Track1
Robin Gross [GNSO-NCSG]: (13:08) Audio is hard to hear today.
Sebastien (ALAC): (13:09) Agree Robin
Mathieu Weill, ccNSO, co-chair: (13:09) @Cheryl : SO/AC is on the update list to discuss it
Alan Greenberg: (13:10) If we refuse to honour change request from subgroups, what punishment tdo we extract if they then do not deliver?
Greg Shatan: (13:11) The original choice was made by the subgroup, so I think changes should be up to the subgroup as well.
Robin Gross [GNSO-NCSG]: (13:11) Good point, Alan. We are volunteers.
Alan Greenberg: (13:11) Perhaps remove rapporteur and replace with people who refuse to agree to their request.
avri doria: (13:11) how did track 2 become shorter time frame than track 1?
Kavouss Arasteh 3: (13:12) Alan,
avri doria: (13:12) guess i was not paying attention when that was explained.
Wale Bakare: (13:12) Hi everyone
Alan Greenberg: (13:12) Track 2 allocation was simply those groups who hoped to deliver quickly.. Reality has a way of changing our perceptions.
Greg Shatan: (13:12) @Avri, I think it always was, or there's a numbering issue. I can assure you that the Juris SG was alwaqys on the long track.
Greg Shatan: (13:13) @CLO: World's Shortest Intervention!
avri doria: (13:13) i though staff was on the long track, guessi was wrong. will it is going to slip to the long track.
Kavouss Arasteh 3: (13:13) It was not a fair judgement .We do not want to change rapporteur but just not allow unilateral decision to move from one to another
avri doria: (13:13) i had the numbering scheme backwards.
Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): (13:13) Thank you Greg I hope it's complexity and nuances were not lost
Alan Greenberg: (13:14) Not lost to me!
Greg Shatan: (13:14) I think the last official day of ICANN58 is March 16. The 17th will be the day after, when GNSO Council and certain other groups have post-meeting meetingts. Of course, the day after was renumbered as "Day 7" for Hyderabad....
Greg Shatan: (13:15) ...a sudden rush to volunteer as a rapporteur can be expected....
Robin Gross [GNSO-NCSG]: (13:15) It is helpful to get this info in advance like this. Thanks, Bernie.
Alan Greenberg: (13:16) Greg, what post-meeting meetings are planned for Copenhagen. First time I have heard about such.
Wale Bakare: (13:20) I think Support Staff can share information per travel to Copenhagen
Kavouss Arasteh 3: (13:20) Leon, pls kindly clarify how and when it was decided the Rapporteurs be supported for the face to face meeting. How many ther are and what are the cost implications
Greg Shatan: (13:21) @Alan, GNSO Council typically has a development session on the day after the meeting ends. In H'bad, it was held on the last day of the meeting.
Kavouss Arasteh 3: (13:23) Cherine, Could ICANN kindly provide the budgetary impact of such funding
Mathieu Weill, ccNSO, co-chair: (13:24) @Kavouss: we have 20 slots maximum and will not exceed this
Mathieu Weill, ccNSO, co-chair: (13:24) So no impact on ICANN funding
Kavouss Arasteh 3: (13:25) Very good
Cherine Chalaby: (13:25) @Kavous; Bernie chairs the Project Cost Support Team (PCST) and should be able to answer your question
Kavouss Arasteh 3: (13:25) If you count the number of Rapporteurs for sub group, we may exceed the budget
Bernard Turcotte Staff Support: (13:26) Kavouss - this does not change the number of seats
Bernard Turcotte Staff Support: (13:26) therefore no impact
Steve DelBianco [GNSO - CSG]: (13:28) our letter made this recommendation: , the CCWG is now proposing to community leadership the following approach:• Requesting that the SO/AC leadership select (following the new Bylaws) a small group of review team members that have either participated in or closely tracked ATRT2.• Requesting the ICANN organization to do a "self-assessment" reporting on a) the extent to which each recommendation was followed and/or implemented; b) the effectiveness in addressing the issues identified by ATRT2; and c) the need for additional implementation. • Specifically request that the Review Team exclude the issues that are already covered by the CCWG-Accountability WS2 (see Annex 1). • Suggesting that the work be conducted & completed more quickly than normal, such as asking that the Final Report be issued within six months
Kavouss Arasteh 3: (13:28) But the 20 seats should first fund the costs of CCWG Members asking support and then if remains something then would be assigned to sub group rappoprteurs eligible to funding
Bernard Turcotte Staff Support: (13:29) correct Kavous - but given there were not 20 members applying for Hyderabad the co-chairs thought this would be useful
Kavouss Arasteh 3: (13:30) With that understanding as I mentioned and you confirmed, I have no comments
Kavouss Arasteh 3: (13:31) What is the deadline for reply from SO/AC on questionaire
Mathieu Weill, ccNSO, co-chair: (13:31) Just received an update on the SO/AC questionnaire by the GAC : The intention at this stage is to finalise the response and submit it no later than the end of next week, subject of course to views received from GAC members.
Mathieu Weill, ccNSO, co-chair: (13:32) ccNSO contribution also being considered by council now
Kavouss Arasteh 3: (13:32) If we extend the deadline, the sub group would be faced with some difficulties
Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): (13:33) Yes it is all very pleasing to see such efforts being made
Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): (13:33) We apprecite these effost especiaoy at this busy time of year
Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): (13:34) Noted Mathieu
Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): (13:35) Kavous that is pretty much waht we said n reply to the request, but obviously even partial rsponses From GNSO (not perhaps all the constituencies etc., on schedule will be of assistance...
Kavouss Arasteh 3: (13:36) Thomas, pls note that I have comment on the progress on Jurisdiction
Mathieu Weill, ccNSO, co-chair: (13:37) @Kavouss I suggest we discuss this as part of item 5 (subgroup updates) Kavouss
Kavouss Arasteh 3: (13:38) pls kindly allow me to comment on jurisdiction at this meeting . I need 2-3 mints to explain the problems
Robin Gross [GNSO-NCSG]: (13:39) expression of interest for what? sorry, I couldn't hear well.
Kavouss Arasteh 3: (13:39) There is a clear divergence of views on how we should procced and what are the priorities to tackle
Jordan Carter: (13:40) now on the adobe room, been on the voice call since the start
Jordan Carter: (13:40) Thomas, can you explain what level of commitment is involved in these groups?
Kavouss Arasteh 3: (13:41) Thomas, there were substantial comments on Goran? s report
Robin Gross [GNSO-NCSG]: (13:41) got it, thanks.
Bernard Turcotte Staff Support: (13:41) no idea
Karen Mulberry: (13:41) No i do not know but can check
Jordan Carter: (13:41) would be good to get that info and include it in the EOI :-)
Jordan Carter: (13:42) thanks Thomas!
Karen Mulberry: (13:42) will do
Jorge Cancio (GAC Switzerland): (13:42) could you circulate this info (Thomas just explained) on list?
Thomas Rickert, CCWG Co-Chair: (13:42) Use of the word Organization - many feel it is, and has always been, all of ICANN including the community - and as such disagree with shifting the use to only mean staff (as opposed to calling staff Staff).Concern with the Complaints Officer reporting to ICANN legal.Concern with calling it the Complaints Officer, several alternate suggestions including Issues Office etc.5 internal groups - can the CCWG participate?
Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): (13:43) Thx Thomas
Sebastien (ALAC): (13:43) Merci Thomas
Kavouss Arasteh 3: (13:44) Mathieu, pls allow some 10 mints for jurisdiction
Thomas Rickert, CCWG Co-Chair: (13:45) Je t'en prie, Seb!
Kavouss Arasteh 3: (13:46) Mathieu, pls reserve 10 mints for jurisdiction in shortening comprehensive reporting from other group
Kavouss Arasteh 3: (13:48) Mathieu, pls take jurisdiction group first before HR
Mathieu Weill, ccNSO, co-chair: (13:48) @Kavouss : that would not be fair to ther groups. HR will be very short, but we need to address CEP. The group needs our guidance
Mathieu Weill, ccNSO, co-chair: (13:48) There will be time left
Kavouss Arasteh 3: (13:49) Mathieu pls advise people to be brief
Kavouss Arasteh 3: (13:50) There is no time mangement at all
Kavouss Arasteh 3: (13:50) Poijnt of order
Kavouss Arasteh 3: (13:51) Point or oder
Thomas Rickert, CCWG Co-Chair: (13:51) Kavouss, we have ample time left.
Mathieu Weill, ccNSO, co-chair: (13:51) @Kavouss : we will accomodate your request but please let the other discussions run as planned in the agenda
Thomas Rickert, CCWG Co-Chair: (13:51) Let's please allow the other groups to report.
Kavouss Arasteh 3: (13:52) I have been interrupted many times by CO-CHAIRS IN THE PAST
Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): (13:53) Thanks you Co_Chairs/ Plennary obviousy the slide on time line will be udated to reflect your decision today
Kavouss Arasteh 3: (13:55) Mathieu, you have openly ignor my multiple request why?
Kavouss Arasteh 3: (13:55) ignored
Mathieu Weill, ccNSO, co-chair: (13:55) Kavouss, Jurisdiction is next. We are accomodating your request
Kavouss Arasteh 3: (13:56) What is duration of this meeting
Thomas Rickert, CCWG Co-Chair: (13:56) Kavouss, your request has not been ignored.
Julf Helsingius: (13:56) 2 h
Mathieu Weill, ccNSO, co-chair: (13:56) Yes, 2 hours planned
Thomas Rickert, CCWG Co-Chair: (13:56) We have 2 hours in total, but the plan it not to exhaust that.
Greg Shatan: (13:57) <who me?>
Rudi Daniel: (13:57) thank you all..apologies for leaving fora call.
David McAuley (RySG): (13:58) please mute if not speaking
Kavouss Arasteh 3: (13:58) cO cHAIRS AND RAPPORTEURS MUST KINDLY BE BRIEF AND NOT MAKE LONG INTERVENTION LIKE MEMBERS AND PARTICIPANTS. bEING CHAIR OR RAPPORTEUR DOES NOT UNLIOMITED TIME TO INTERVENE PLS
Julf Helsingius: (13:59) Please turn off your mics
Kavouss Arasteh 3: (13:59) If members to be short6 , the cjo chairs and rapporteus must also be short and brief
Julf Helsingius: (14:00) Kavouss: we have enough time
Thomas Rickert, CCWG Co-Chair: (14:00) Kavouss, I am not sure why you are continuing to complain and use caps (that means you are shouting). We are honoring your request to speak. Please allow others to explain their valuable work.
Kavouss Arasteh 3: (14:00) I and Rapportuers should kindly observe the timing limitationsmeant , Co- Chairs
Kavouss Arasteh 3: (14:01) Sorry using cap is my mistake sorry about it I am not shouting dio not accuse me so unkindly
Thomas Rickert, CCWG Co-Chair: (14:02) All good, Kavouss. Thanks!
Tom Dale (ACIG GAC Secretariat): (14:03) Apologies, I have another commitment so leaving the call.
Kavouss Arasteh 3: (14:03) Thonas, When I talk I try not to be loud but if Leon said I am not heard then I spoke more loud . I do not allow meyself to should on any one at all
Kavouss Arasteh 3: (14:03) Be careful
Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): (14:03) Bye Tom and thank you for the update from the GAC re the survey
David McAuley (RySG): (14:05) I think input from Sam or Amy Stathos on prioe experience would be helpful
David McAuley (RySG): (14:05) prior experience, that is
Thomas Rickert, CCWG Co-Chair: (14:06) I am not making any accusations, just reminding you that using capital letters in a chat means shouting.
Kavouss Arasteh 3: (14:06) Thomas, and others, Sorry if sometimes I type in CAP, that is my mistake and I am very sorry about that
Thomas Rickert, CCWG Co-Chair: (14:06) Again, all good. We are looking forward to your intervention. Maybe we should end the chat conversation on this question.
Kavouss Arasteh 3: (14:07) Pls note that I was not awre of such inrterpretation .pls point me to that interpretation
Berry Cobb: (14:07) For the CEP topic, this is also being discussed (briefly at this stage) within the Subsequent Rnds PDP. I suspect further deliberations will continue at least as to how the process worked or could be improved as it relates to the 2012 round. The WS2-CEP team may want to keep a tab on any of those discussions.
avri doria: (14:08) couldn't the form of the mediation be open to the mediator based on their expereince and what they see facing them? if we had mediation that is.
Robin Gross [GNSO-NCSG]: (14:08) One of the main problems of the CEP is the lack of meaningful written rules about the process
avri doria: (14:09) i accpt that the bylaws are not cut in stone and could be changed is necessary. judging whether it is necessary or not remains a question.
Greg Shatan: (14:09) I'd be open to flexibility and exercise of judgment of the mediator (after all, a mediation is only as good as the judgment of the mediator) but the overall concept is to facilitiate the negotiation.
Thomas Rickert, CCWG Co-Chair: (14:09) Kavouss, will do offlist!
Kavouss Arasteh 3: (14:10) Thomas,
Kavouss Arasteh 3: (14:11) As I said I am not a professional typist, I type with two finger and I did not know that in ICANN CAP is interpreted as shouting.
Jordan Carter: (14:12) it is great that we get to learn new things each call
Bernard Turcotte Staff Support: (14:12) Kavouss - please see https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__newrepublic.com_article_117390_netiquette-2Dcapitalization-2Dhow-2Dcaps-2Dbecame-2Dcode-2Dyelling&d=DgIFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=kbiQDH54980u4nTPfwdloDLY6-6F24x0ArAvhdeDvvc&m=AsoL1krChrzHO_fAY98mjrXTzvfYmkjQGavNNmA1rB0&s=MVLOnaAi6ws-XSKqBOdCFZkpq5g8ZvPEWn6DXsBkA8U&e=
Kavouss Arasteh 3: (14:12) However, it was inadvertantly done
Kavouss Arasteh 3: (14:12) This is an invention
Kavouss Arasteh 3: (14:13) This is an invention¨
Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): (14:14) Thx David
Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): (14:14) Good idea re 2nd Q
David McAuley (RySG): (14:14) TY CLO
Kavouss Arasteh 3: (14:15) Secretariat, pls indicate that if someone mistakenly typied in CAP and admitted that it was inadvertantly and mistakenly done it should be interpreted shouting .Moreover, this categorization is an invention not internationally and universally recognized and agreesd¨$
Edward Morris: (14:15) THanks everyone.
Julf Helsingius: (14:15) Kavouss: it is a well-established internet convention
Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): (14:16) right bck to IRC Chnnels f I remember correctly
Julf Helsingius: (14:17) Just don't mention AOL...
Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): (14:17) :-)
Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): (14:18) Who is the "we" you refer to Kavous?
Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): (14:19) yout audio was fine Kavous
Kavouss Arasteh 3: (14:20) Grec, yes ,we agree to disagree .Then we will get no where
avri doria: (14:22) There is the work some agreed to do, and there is the work that is called for in the Bylaws and the Recommendations.
Pedro da Silva - [GAC Brasil]: (14:23) I don't agree that the work to put together a questionnaire has been complicated. We just need to agree on the formulation of a third additional question and that is it.
Greg Shatan: (14:24) We have not yet agreed that a third question will go out.
Edward Morris: (14:24) Thanks Greg
Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): (14:24) I see it as progress yes Pedro
Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): (14:25) Indeed David kinda why it is called "building consensus" it is actual Work1
Pedro da Silva - [GAC Brasil]: (14:26) @Greg: there was considerabvle support for it and I don't see why the coRapporteurs do not recognize it.
Jorge Cancio (GAC Switzerland): (14:26) Just lost connection... but to sum my comment up: all are invited to contribute to the two docs we are working on. And we have to find agreement on the three questions to be sent out to stakeholders worldwide on their experiences with ICANN jurisdiction
Greg Shatan: (14:26) There was both support and opposition. We'll need to work it out.
David McAuley (RySG): (14:26) +1 Greg
Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): (14:27) Yup
avri doria: (14:28) optimism is sometimes difficult
Jorge Cancio (GAC Switzerland): (14:28) Let' work on the two docs with specific ideas and wording. And let's be flexible on the questions being drafted - after all we are asking for input from the wider community
Pedro da Silva - [GAC Brasil]: (14:29) +1 Jorge
Philip Corwin: (14:29) Optimism is the triumph of hope over experience.
avri doria: (14:29) yep
avri doria: (14:30) and sometime finding some hope is a challenge.
Greg Shatan: (14:30) Here's one definition of progress: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.npr.org_sections_thetwo-2Dway_2016_11_27_503502142_people-2Ddonated-2Dnearly-2D100-2D000-2Dto-2Ddig-2Da-2Dbig-2Dpointless-2Dhole-2Din-2Dthe-2Dground&d=DgIFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=kbiQDH54980u4nTPfwdloDLY6-6F24x0ArAvhdeDvvc&m=AsoL1krChrzHO_fAY98mjrXTzvfYmkjQGavNNmA1rB0&s=16MoCIb5m1zJm2BK0ad7uSnbZs9T7z2d7lA7XFKwRp0&e=
Jorge Cancio (GAC Switzerland): (14:30) the optimism of will and the pessimism of reason
Kavouss Arasteh 3: (14:30) Mathieu, could you clarify the meaning of 2 YET2 and <2 YUP2
Kavouss Arasteh 3: (14:30) yep and yup
Nathalie Vergnolle: (14:31) Under AOB, may I provide an update on the dashboard please?
Jorge Cancio (GAC Switzerland): (14:31) what about the HR subgroup?
Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): (14:31) No AOB from me Thx
Mathieu Weill, ccNSO, co-chair: (14:32) I ave the very short update on HR. Niels is flying.
Mathieu Weill, ccNSO, co-chair: (14:32) Notes : Mathieu Weill: Niels ten Oever could not attend today - he has reported great progress in Hyderabad and a document is being discussed which we hope will be sent to the plenary for consideration.
Jorge Cancio (GAC Switzerland): (14:33) yes hopefully :)
Mathieu Weill, ccNSO, co-chair: (14:33) Trust the process Jorge ! ;-)
Jorge Cancio (GAC Switzerland): (14:33) well I'm part of it... ;P
Jordan Carter: (14:33) thanks all!
avri doria: (14:33) bye
Michael Abejuela (ARIN): (14:33) thank you everyone!
Edward Morris: (14:33) Thanks all.
Julf Helsingius: (14:34) Thanks everybody!
Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): (14:34) Thx everyone... Talk again soon Bye for now...
David McAuley (RySG): (14:34) thanks Co-Chairs, staff and all, good bye
Robin Gross [GNSO-NCSG]: (14:34) Thanks all, bye!
Pedro da Silva - [GAC Brasil]: (14:34) bye
Jorge Cancio (GAC Switzerland): (14:34) thanks and bye all!
Ricardo Holmquist: (14:34) bye, everyone
Bernard Turcotte Staff Support: (14:34) bye
