Dev Teelucksingh: Okay, this is Dev. Maya could you just tell them we can start because we have quorum and we should start and go through the agenda item by item. The part about LACRALO elections, I think that is item 4 –

Heidi Ullrich: Actually I'm looking at the agenda and I'm not quite sure why, but we don't even seem to have the election issue on the agenda. We have item 4 which is the review of the conference in Nairobi. We have item 5 which is the update on the at-large board selection process.

Vanda Scartazeni: This looks much more the last call.

Dev Teelucksingh: Well unless someone really wants to make it point of order to talk about the LACRALO election, if you – we should put that as the last item then if it's not on the official agenda.

Heidi Ullrich: I'm sorry, we should do what?

Interpreter Maya (Interpreter): The thing is, the item related to Nairobi, this is Andres, and there is a lot to talk about in regards to that issue.

Dev Teelucksingh: Okay, so I'm going – just quickly, Maya, are we officially starting? Let's start and go through the items one by one.

Heidi Ullrich: Okay, so Matthias is saying that the reason that the election item is not on the agenda is that everything was set out in your e-mail.

Maya (Interpreter): Okay, so first of all –

Heidi Ullrich: Sorry, Maya, so Dev, basically, do you agree that if no one responded to your e-mails that it just goes ahead as you set out?

Dev Teelucksingh: It should go ahead.

Maya (Interpreter): Okay, and Andres already started. So we're going to the action items for January 18. We really can't deal with a lot of those unless we had a general assembly but we don't really have that. And I'm sorry, Andres, what are you talking about?

Heidi Ullrich: Sorry, Maya, don't translate this –

Maya (Interpreter): No, I was translating to you what they were saying.

Heidi Ullrich: Oh, sorry, Maya. So, Dev, are you in agreement or are you comfortable with if no one responds to your e-mail that basically that just assumes everyone is in agreement?

Dev Teelucksingh: Yes.

Heidi Ullrich: Okay.

Dev Teelucksingh: I'm happy to discuss it, but –

Maya (Interpreter): Let me go ahead – do you want me to tell them that or no?

Heidi Ullrich: No, please.

Dev Teelucksingh: We can put that as the last item of the business.

Heidi Ullrich: Okay, I'll let Matthias know.

Dev Teelucksingh: Okay.

Maya (Interpreter): And then basically for the vertical integration, the board therefore decided to take a new measure of innovation. This is in regards to the different acquisitions and modifications that can take place within a vertical integration and therefore there is a work group that has been proposed and this is a subject open for public comment. So there is a work group that was established for vertical integration. It has more than 75 members. It's actually a bigger group than most ICAAN constituencies that have several ICAAN staff members working and several members from the different constituencies for the GNSO issues. There is a big presence also from the business constituencies. A lot of these are present. And I am also part of this group as well and Alan Greenburg who is the ALAC liaison. And there are 30 people from At-Large as well highly engaged in that working group. And this is something which Sebastian had already brought up previously. But he sent over the list and we discussed this with Alejandro Disanti actually and we actually included some of our opinions.

I have actually received about 250 e-mails in regards to that, so there is a lot of information in regards to this. And what I can tell you there has been active discussions by two people on the previous teleconference that said that they were going to issue some statements and important analysis, the capacity in order to commit the users commitment. And I think that this is something that was rather important. Mainly because even though that some issues for the users can be at stake sometimes, I think that the main point here is to have a more open and transparent position from the GEF. I think that if ETNS has more of a transparent position, there will be more opportunity and more money and better conditions not only in regards to services, but also ICAAN rules and ICAAN information.

As a general outlook I think that that's all I can give you. I'm sorry, give me a moment, because Andres is speaking a bit low, so –

Unidentified Participant: But I want to ask a question.

Maya (Interpreter): Okay, want me to go ahead and tell them? And as general outlook that is something that would be beneficial for the users and there is a question from Spanish. Do you think that it's important to have a work group? Because I know that Carlos is proposing a working group. I don't know if this is proper. What do you think if we actually formed a working group for this subject? What I do think is that if a lot of people in the region would have been aware of this big working group there is so much information I think that this would have worked well for our region. So it would be good to devise certain tasks and devise opinions in that case. So if there are five people in that working group from LACRALO and we are able to analyze the participation with a lot more assistance, I think that will have better results. Because it's very difficult on LACRALO dynamic because – and I'm still thinking about the public commentary, but if we could have five people and then post some of these issues on the public commentary and (inaudible) and then improve the participation of the users of these working groups.

And therefore, if anybody wants to send an e-mail in order to announce their interest in this working group or if you want to tell us in private, that would be good as well.

Dev Teelucksingh: Okay, this is Dev.

Maya (Interpreter): Go ahead, Dev.

Dev Teelucksingh: Okay so I think I put as an action item a call to join working group to look at the vertical integration issues. Okay? And I have to say I saw Sebastian's comments regarding vertical integration, I have – I think I'm also very interested in this because also this issue deals very closely regarding the new gTLD program. And a lot of discussion just to briefly touch on it, talks about how do we deal with what you call small or single registrant TLDs where there's a small number of TLDs and it makes more economic sense to have an integrated registry and registrar operation. But I think definitely it's, this issue is very important and we'll incorporate it into the list of issues as soon as possible. Thank you.

Maya (Interpreter): And, Dev, I'm already part of the 75 people, a group of vertical integration. And what I was saying is that there is so much information that we have already available there. I'm sorry. He's still telling you something else. But besides you and myself that are interested in this subject, and I'm expressing my interest in this subject as well Andres – so there are three people. And that was Giorgio by the way also expressing his interest. What we could do is to maybe draft a small statement in order to present some few points, not only in regards to LACRALO's participation in regards to all this, but also a statement on our opinions on what we think that should be done. What do you think about that, Dev?

Dev Teelucksingh: Yes, Andres, I agree.

Maya (Interpreter): So let's continue and let's talk about policies. I think that several (inaudible). For example the pier has very specific characteristics for community participation. They think this is a big risk and there is a lot of people who are in the working group tell me that it is a very hot subject on their agenda. And I am being told that there is a lot of pressure not only from the constituencies for the role and the opinion of the users. It really coincides with a lot of the ideas proposed. So I want to be approved registries like the people from (inaudible).com and things of that nature. It would be good to get more e-mails from these entities. And basically the intention would be to make a distinction between big registries and small registries. And to have a possibility of doing an integration of what would be beneficial for the users.

Because there is a lot of the times a big jump where you have millions on domains on the one side and very few domains on the other side. And I know that this is a very, very simple subject. I don't know if I agree with this position but it's very difficult to reach an agreement that would really affect these jurisdictions and the conditions for the users. If a registry is in competition with its own registrants, like if we have a small registry, (inaudible) can sell their domain directly to the registrants or – so there has been competition with whom they already have a contract somewhere else. So this situation which does sound irrational in accordance to some registries would improve competition because then the registrar would have better conditions in order to set market accesses. And according to other constituencies, they state that there's a natural distinction between the function of the technical and the business function of the registry. This brings added value to the users. So I don't know if anybody has an opinion on this.

Vanda Scartazeni: My hand is up.

Maya (Interpreter): Okay, let me go ahead and tell them. One second. Now if anybody else has any other opinions, they want to say that a statement coming from LACRALO can be dangerous – go ahead, Vanda, please.

Vanda Scartazeni: Okay. Well I guess we have a very long debate on this. This was started on the board and then from the economic (inaudible). And the most important issues are these. This is as Andres said. The idea to analyze what is inside the small gTLDs and the regular ones that are still in the market. What we are going to have if we agree most of the vertical integration we're going to just destroy all the registrar systems in a few years. Because once you have the price, it's almost the idea of manufacturing issue. If you have all the guys doing everything, maybe the price for the registry will be low, but this does not mean that we're going to have lower price to sell this. So the competition among registrars not only gives more chance of choice, but also allow small registries in less developed area to sell around where people don't want to do that.

So there is a lot of issues to debate because when we talk about a small new gTLD, it's something that in reality will not exist because a small, like really small gTLD will need so much money to enter into the debate to pay for their costs, to pay for marketing, they cannot be small or they will not survive. So in reality, we're going to face only medium to big new gTLDs with a lot of money behind if we allow the vertical integration to happen, so we're going to have a more quality people distributing any kind of gTLD in the market without any chance for ISPs for instance to have good price to distribute in those areas where the big ones don't want to because there is no much market for them in those areas. So people most of the time cannot have any chance or to have, even have the gTLD, with their name. Or if they have, if something happens, they will just ignore it, because the gap from these small users to the big registries will be so big that nobody will reach them. So to who are you going to complain?

So it's a lot of registrants' problem that we need to analyze with much more deeply in that information about. Let's only think about what is happening in our region with Verizon for instance. Verizon just gives us so big price to small registrars, that they are giving up. There is – we used to have five or six small people here in Brazil who have just moved because they cannot afford to enter into the market with the prices that are assigned to the big ones. And this is in that conversation market. If you think about a vertical, so the registry will be the one that will sell in the market. Then forget about you have small areas (inaudible) or someone to complain about. It's about that that I send my position and I will follow, forward my position e-mail to the others to you. But the general idea described there is like that. Okay, thank you.

Maya (Interpreter): Vanda, would you be able to be part of this small group that I just told you?

Vanda Scartezini: Do what?

Maya (Interpreter): If you would participate in the small group that I told you about, that I proposed at the beginning where Dev is going to be participating as well.

Vanda Scartezini: Well yes.

Maya (Interpreter): Because I also would like to exchange more information with regards to that statement that you will be sending. So we can have more information about the subject. Thank you.

Vanda Scartezini: Okay, I can. I can exchange ideas definitely. That's a very, very relevant issue and most of the people, especially in our region, where registrars are a very small number and we depend mostly on our ccTLDs who they are with when you need some kind of open –

Maya (Interpreter): Vanda, I'm sorry, he's speaking at the same time as you are. So let me tell him that you have something else to say, okay?

Vanda Scartezini: I'm sorry.

Maya (Interpreter): It's okay. Otherwise you're going to miss each other's comments. So getting back to this, because of this issue, because I am an At-Large delegate in (inaudible), I can't even give my opinion there, but it is an issue that raises a lot of concern. Because I – if we don't have that many opinions related to this, there is nothing much that can be done. We do have to have the role that this would play for the users and what this would do to competition. And mainly in regards to the open market and competition. I mean I'm not saying that somebody can't be with a company that has a better situation because they have more access to advertising. The issue with that is that the user can be affected and the income can be affected as well. And Vanda, please go ahead now.

Vanda Scartezini: Yes. Let me get also the idea, the problem of (inaudible) of ccTLDs and also the gTLDs. So still in my opinion it would be the same problem because we're going to have a big organization that gets the (inaudible) code is not any longer, you know that. And I believe that they are facing the Japanese and English, United Kingdom markets because they used OpCo mostly. So that is something that they want to focus on that. And again, our region if we don't have any protection, let's say that, protection against this vertical integration to deal with the big, big guys, so when you want to adopt (inaudible) you're going to lose anyway if you have any problems or they don't send to you or your connection is not good enough to reach the – I don't know, the (inaudible) that they have (inaudible) to get a new name or to protect your name another can get. There is a lot of issues that we need to debate. That's most of the reason these working groups is almost everybody from ICAAN. These meetings are sitting ducks because everybody knows that these are going to be a lot of problems for many regions, for many – even in rich regions, people there is such few registrars. When you get these registrars, registries – when you get these registries out (inaudible), all the 900 others will have no room to sell because the price will be completely discretionary and nobody will really get more into the markets after that. So it's in my option this is, again, this is the end in a few years of the whole system of registry. So this is the interest of (inaudible). And even when you consider that the small ones could be –

Maya (Interpreter): Thank you, Vanda.

Vanda Scartezini: It's hard.

Maya (Interpreter): Vanda, I really agree with what you're saying. If you could maybe post what you just said on Adobe Connect, because I really agree with what you're saying. Carlos is the one that opened up the subject. It's really surprising that not a single ALS from Columbia has actually given any opinions in regard to this. I think that it is time that we engage ourselves and we do something because it's a really a subject of (inaudible) and so I don't know what could be done in order to change or to show that we are not very happy with this. In Nairobi for example, there was a huge problem with the big corporate companies because they did not participate in a lot of these for example (inaudible) lot of these that usually sent their delegates, they only sent one or two. And one of the main participants in Nairobi was – excuse me, Andres and Daniel was speaking just now, excuse me. So I can (inaudible) but how powerful can it be that in a lot of these meetings for example we did not have a lot of these participants during the round table with Ron Herson. There were a lot of people from the community that participated and I was able to engage with a person from Columbia who spoke perfect English and I told them – and I told this person I really envy your English, I would never be able to have your accent, I would never be able to get rid of my Spanish accent. That was just a little joke.

But the point is, there was only one delegate from Columbia and that is the point of what I'm telling you. And in Nairobi there was another person that was hoping and advocating for the ICAAN meeting to take place in Columbia. And it was a great person but the person did not speak Spanish for example. So I don't know if the users were very happy with that. So this subject really is a very main focus and this has a lot to do with the policy issues.

Years ago, at least five years ago, this is Giorgio, in 2005, through Sebastian Ritardi we presented a motion for the XXX they dealt with in ALAC. And that is also worrisome subject because there hasn't been a lot of opinions related to that and I don't know if there was even a vote that took place. The other day in Nairobi the board I know that had a lot of expectations, and Vanda could tell us a bit more about that, but this was a subject that was brought up again. And the public comment for this closes on May 10th. I mean there isn't much to say because the users haven't shared their voice.

So as the users, we have to be certain that for the safety and security of (inaudible), this is something that is approved. But while there has been a proposal to reach an agreement between the government and the companies in the private sector and development, they had a lot to do that the immigration needed to be stopped for example. Because this would generate more secure places. This also has to do with (inaudible) sites. And there's also the decentralization and centralization and awareness of children having access to adult sites. So we're talking once again about the XXX issue. So what we mean by this is for example, to do a setup where there is a point or let's say for example there is a click in one of the links to go into a pornographic site. So the point is a lot of the big companies and a lot of the companies that have servers need to develop this system in order to block. But this needs to be a partnership in concert because the XXX just like that, without the engagement of anybody, is not something that is going to work.

I cannot force any dot coms to do anything. And this is why it would be good to do this. I definitely think that it would be good to do this. But nevertheless in the public comments period, I think that it would be difficult because I cannot impose on a dot com registrant. They can't really impose on them how to deal and how to impose these firewalls for example. They just can't do that. What I'm trying to tell you is that it would be important that (inaudible) would take more of a presence in this and that a lot of the other entities within ICAAN as well really make their voices heard because in this case we will be given a very specific opinion on how to use the XXX world because XXX could be something at some point, a cornerstone in order how to manage the Internet from here on. But that is a very, very innocent way of looking at things.

Many times I know that government really had a lot of pressure for this to happen. But there's been a change of positions and also – but this is not something that was dealt with in Nairobi necessarily. We are the users. We need to make our voices heard to insure that everybody knows what our position is and that the effort that we've made in these last years especially after 2007 has been very productive. Because now we are hearing about the subject again and we are dealing with the XXX issue again. And so when we join the campaign for XXX users, for example I was just for that, at the time there were more than 500 associations that joined the typical neutral and they said that ICAAN needs to see that the XXX is actually something that would be necessary from a technological point of view.

So what I'm saying is, we need to make our voices heard and actually unite more in this without losing objectivity and without being volatile because many times a lot of the business says none of the governments are going to change their position because they are going to make money. I think that we all are in agreement with this subject and I think that there isn't much to say with regards to this because I think we are all in agreement. But what I do think is that this compulsive migration we can ask ICAAN to deal with this and then we can also do this in other forms as well in other subjects. Argentina is one of the countries that is trying to rectify this. And for example from a lot of these forums we can (inaudible) a lot of these proposals.

Okay. It is time to finish and I just ask for ten more minutes to speak about Nairobi. And for the consultation period for each ALS. What the point is, I think that survey needs to be filled out by the ALSs and is already part of the agenda. And that was actually item number one in the agenda and that was actually Cheryl's report on Nairobi.

Anyway, from this whole text that I translated into Spanish, I am not going to speak about this report. I think that what's really more important is that between Seoul and between Nairobi, between five RALOs and 121 ALSs at ALAC, there were 13 statements of policy and in five months there was more work than was done in 2008. We have for example several ALAC members in many of the important security groups. We have four members in the RAA, two member of At-Large. We have one member for example in the policy committee. And a lot of the subjects that we have in Nairobi was for example the letter from the GNSO to the CCO. And the role of the board and the elections of the board. In Nairobi the board basically squashed a lot of the expressions of opinions that came forth by the registries.

And then there was also the presentation for the final reports on the freedom of expression. There was also the minority report as well that was presented and that was approved. And now I actually have questions in regards to this. It was a report approved by the 15 members. A statement for the strategic plan, versions one and three, and then there was for example a draft on the IMS and then finally there was also a statement on the things to come. And of course the statement on vertical integration. So we have done a lot of these things and many, many other things. We also approved four ALSs as well at the time. We also have the conflict now LACRALO, EURALO, and AFRALO have the pamphlets. When are these going to be available? I have some of them, I know that Dev has some of them as well. And I did bring with me some of these pamphlets in order to be able to start distributing them either at events or with the public.

Can you bring them to Cordova or can you send them by mail? But how did this happen? I mean I just asked them to provide some of these pamphlets to me and I know that I have some here with me and some were sent to Brazil. I know that I gave Jose and Luis a couple. If I go to (inaudible) I'll leave some of these. I didn't see Jose and Fatima before they went to Sao Paulo, otherwise I would have given them some of them as well. So little by little we'll be able to distribute them.

So what I can do is to distribute some of these wherever I go. So when I got to Buenos Aires I can give some of these to Daniel and that's the way I can do it. Matthias is here from south, right? Matthias, is there a chance to maybe send to the different ALSs the pamphlets? Especially because on May 17th is Internet World Day and so we have a lot of organizations, there are technical assistance offices or organizations that are working with the celebrations in the Internet World Day.

Well I mean what it was, the original representatives were supposed to pick up a lot of these in Nairobi and then try to distribute them. I don't know how many more we have left. I think that they are in California. But to give one to each of the ALSs it might be a bit difficult. I mean if you can give us a specific amount, then we can actually see. I know that Andreas has some of them in Cordova. Hello? Is – do I now need to be in English?

Heidi Ullrich: Hi, this is Heidi.

Maya (Interpreter): Okay, because I couldn't hear you guys, so I wasn't sure.

Carlton Samuels: No, I'm here. Carlton. I joined late, so I'm not sure I’m not a little discombobulated.

Maya (Interpreter): Okay. Just so you know he was just talking about Nairobi. And for you guys in English, just be aware a lot of the times when the speaker speaks at 1,000 miles an hour, and it's humanly impossible to keep up, so what I try to do is I just try to give you the main points of what the speaker is saying. Okay? So I'm hoping that you are understanding a lot of what I'm trying to convey to you.

Heidi Ullrich: I'm just interested in how you're going to translate discombobulate.

Maya (Interpreter): I'm not even going to try that at the moment. Actually we do have a word in Spanish. Let me tell them, Carlton, that you're here. Because I wasn't aware that you were here.

Carlton Samuels: Yes.

Maya (Interpreter): Okay.

Heidi Ullrich: Thanks, Carlton. We also have Dev and Vanda on English.

Carlton Samuels: Yes, Vanda probably left just now.

Heidi Ullrich: I think we're just about to finish. We actually had a good discussion . We talked about vertical integration. We talked about XXX.

Carlton Samuels: Yes, I am looking at the notes on the Adobe room. I see those. So where are we on the agenda?

Heidi Ullrich: Well I'm not sure if we're really following the agenda. We've just talked about item four which was Nairobi. Andres reviewed the chair's report.

Carlton Samuels: Okay.

Maya (Interpreter): And so there are a lot of policy subjects that we have to deal with but I'd really like to discuss a bit about the policy issues. What I wanted to talk about, we are working with Nick on the subject that is extremely important for Argentineans. And this is the subject about the Malvinas Islands. So next week in concert we will be presenting a subject for discussion on this issue. So we will be presenting this wherever we can. I will be – we will be presenting this at (inaudible) – what we're saying is this. The (inaudible) subject is something that is very relative to Argentina so this is something that we will be presenting next week. It's a very important subject, so it is something that we do want to discuss in whatever international settings and whatever settings that we are able to at this point. Now – yes, Carlton?

Carlton Samuels: (inaudible)

Maya (Interpreter): I'm sorry, what was that?

Carlton Samuels: I wanted a point about is the member saying that the Malvinas is proper discussion for names and numbers policy? Or is he saying he is just introducing it?

Maya (Interpreter): No, he's just saying that this is a subject, that this is something that he wanted to discuss and it's something that they want to make heard in whatever settings that they can because it's very important to Argentineans. It was an add on.

Carlton Samuels: Okay, I have no doubt it is important to Argentineans in Malvinas and the dispute with the UK. But to the extent that it might not be part of the names and numbers discussion, I would respectfully request that the member could post to the list, but certainly in terms of having a discussion about it on this, on the teleconference, would be a little bit off subject.

Maya (Interpreter): Okay. Let me go ahead and see if I can put that in there. Give me a moment as I try to catch up, because as I was having that discussion with you, he started with something else. Give me one second. So at this point I think that it is very important to really engage not only in the new gTLDs but also in the XXX issue. I think that at this point we need to make our voices heard for these issues. These are very important policies. They are a lot of subjects. First of all, another subject that has been dealt with is that the relationship within the ALSs and the country codes and I'm going to also post the survey on country codes in ALSs. So I will be posting that at this moment. And so I'm copying that at this moment. This was a survey. And dear friends, I do have to go. I'm so sorry, I'm very sorry for not being able to stay longer, and that was Giorgio who has to go.

So getting back to the subject, I'm trying to post this on Adobe Connect and that was item 9. If there is anybody else that would like to say anything related to a lot of the issues that were discussed today, does anybody have anything else to say? No? Very well, then we can end today's teleconference. And just Andres, just to reiterate again what we were saying, and (inaudible) is Sylvia from her outreach group could actually develop some sort of a better outreach for a lot of the ALSs in Latin America. Because a lot of them do not participate and in other cases there isn't a lot of information that these ALSs have access to. So it may be the staff or the organization or ICAAN or someone, if there is a chance to generate some sort of an information kit for a lot of these ALSs that are out of the loop sometimes. Because you are doing so much work with Dev and a lot of our colleagues such as Carlton and Vanda and a lot of these ALSs are not aware of a lot of these things that are happening. And so this lack a lot of the times of opinion comes from a lack of knowledge. That's one issue.

The second issue for the next teleconference, it would be good, Andres, for you to really – for example, Sergio's interference and the lack of respect especially when a lot of the times the people on English channel do not even know what's happening. The Adobe Chat I think is very disrespectful. Right, I mean you try to be efficient as much as you can. The people that you mentioned – it is very true that if we have a country code that has been used and a lot of our ALSs are not really saying anything, I know that that is a bit problematic and that is part of our job. But I think that we can do more work in regards to this country code issue. I'm very happy with this teleconference first of all because Daniel was here. Daniel has a lot of knowledge and he has a lot to bring to the table because he is very knowledgeable on a lot of the subjects. He works with very important international organizations. And if we could have more people at that level as members of LACRALO, that would be great.

And also, we spoke about very important policies here on this teleconference and I think it is very historical. So I really applaud everybody's efforts. Not only have we spoken, but we will be presenting a lot of these things through the public commentary period and give statements, and I'm very happy about that. If there is anybody else that has anything else to say, otherwise that will be the end.

Dev Teelucksingh: Actually this is Dev. I'd like to make a very quick clarification.

Maya (Interpreter): Go ahead, Dev.

Dev Teelucksingh: Regarding the ALAC board selection committee, and I guess on this one I'll ask Carlton because all the regions have submitted candidates for the evaluation committee. I take it the nominations have been accepted in Nairobi? Is it that we have to follow up with anything? Or is it that they have been notified directly how they indent to participate and so forth? I don't know, Carlton, if you have an answer to that.

Maya (Interpreter): Jacqueline Moore and James Corbin were the two people that were –

Carlton Samuels: That's right. This is Carlton. The BCC is now constituted. The persons that came from the LACRALO region, Jacqueline and James Corbin, from (inaudible) and Barbados respectively, have accepted the membership. And this week we had the first meeting of the AB-BST and the BCC that was supposed to have happened. I personally was not able to make it. But as it is now, we have begun the work.

Dev Teelucksingh: Okay, I was just wondering whether we had –

Maya (Interpreter): And thank you, Carlton, it really has been a pleasure to have you here with us. Very well. So that will be all then and everybody take care.

Multiple Speakers: Thank you. Good bye.