Sub-group Members:  Alan Greenberg, Cheryl Langdon-Orr, Farzaneh Badii, Greg Shatan, Herb Waye, Jorge Villa, Kavouss Arasteh, Sebastein Bachollet, Steve DelBianco  (9)

Staff:  Bernard Turcotte, Brenda Brewer, Nathalie Vergnolle

Apologies:  Rinalia Abdul Rahim, Julf Helsinguis

** If your name is missing from attendance or apology, please send note to **




0.  Call Admin and Roll Call / Apologies (2min-CLO) Apologies 

1.  Welcome - Opening Remarks - Our aim and purpose for today's call (3-5 min-CLO)

2.  Review (brief) of last meeting records here and any Action Items (5-10 min- SDB, FB) 

    • Refer here to our Google Doc and any list interaction on changes to draft text. 

3.  Primary Agenda Item - Discussion (25-35 min FB, CLO)

4 .  Next Steps. Standing Item - (5 min- CLO)

    • CCWG still need to FINALLY determine if any changes to our report are significant or not.
    • If significant changes are recommended, CCWG-Accountability WS2 may require a second public consultation. We however do *not* believe this will be the case.
    • If changes are (as we predict) not significant, CCWG-Accountability WS2 can forward final recommendations to Chartering Organizations for approval, and then to the ICANN Board for consideration 
      and adoption. Noting the timeline and Key milestone dates:- This will require that we lodge or Final Report by Sept 20th for consideration by the 
      CCWG Plenary at our meeting on September  27th.

5.  AOB / Meeting Schedule (5 min- CLO)

August Dates:

·   Thursday 31st @ 0500 UTC

September Dates: (if required)

·   Thursday 7th @ 1300 UTC

·   Thursday 14th @1900 UTC

Raw Captioning Notes

Disclaimer: This rough edit transcript, which may contain missing, misspelled or paraphrased words, is only provided for your immediate review and is not certified
as verbatim and is not to be cited in any way. 


  • None

Action Items:

  • SDB and FB to update document per comments for next meeting.


  • None

Documents Presented 

Chat Transcript

Brenda Brewer: (8/24/2017 13:33) Good day all and welcome to WS2 SO/AC Accountability Subgroup Meeting #30 on 24 August 2017 @ 19:00 UTC!

  Brenda Brewer: (13:34) If you are not speaking, please mute your phone by pressing *6 (star 6). To unmute, *6. This call is recorded.

  Brenda Brewer: (13:34) Reminder to all, for captioning and transcription, please  state your name before speaking and speak slowly.  Thank you!

  CART: (13:52) Hello

  CART: (13:53) Hello Branda, would you make me host please?

  CART: (13:54) Thank you!

  Steve DelBianco: (13:56) Brenda -- could you please have the latest PDF or online access to the COmment response doc I circulated yesterday?

  Brenda Brewer: (13:56) Hi Steve, yes, that doc is prepped.

  Bernard Turcotte - ICANN: (13:56) hello all

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): (13:58) hi everyone

  Brenda Brewer: (13:58) Kavouss, dial out is progress for you, seems as if no answser.

  Kavouss Arasteh: (13:58) Brenda Hi

  Kavouss Arasteh: (13:59) I was dialed but when I pressed + did not connect and then cutoff

  Brenda Brewer: (13:59) Calling again, Kavouss.

  Herb Waye Ombuds: (14:00) Hello everyone

  Kavouss Arasteh: (14:00) Hi Cherl,

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): (14:00) welcome Herb

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): (14:01) hi Kavous

  Kavouss Arasteh: (14:01) Normall, except you three and OMBUDSMAN ,WE SHOULD BE ATLEAST 5

  Steve DelBianco: (14:01) Herb -- please see row 38 in the comment response sheet, where we discuss Ombuds role.

  Steve DelBianco: (14:01) current sheet is at

  Bernard Turcotte - ICANN: (14:02) cheryl its 5 including rapporteurs - so we are fine

  Herb Waye Ombuds: (14:04) OK Steve thanks

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): (14:08) if people are unable to read the share doc, we can get shared screen from staff... let me know

  Alan Greenberg: (14:10) Based on the consensus during the f2f in Joburg and within the work Track....

  Greg Shatan: (14:15) Secretariat?

  Farzaneh Badii: (14:17) oh wow!

  Farzaneh Badii: (14:17) accepting to be wrong is rare in this community! Applaud!

  Greg Shatan: (14:18) Note: Alan is Canadian.

  Steve DelBianco: (14:19) here is what I think Alan meant:  and whether the actions of the decisional participants of the EC decisional participants are reported accurately and completely in accordance with the ICANN  bylaws.

  Herb Waye Ombuds: (14:20) I would only be involved if somebody complained that the rules weren't followed

  Herb Waye Ombuds: (14:20) sorry no audio

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): (14:20) the ombudsman and the rapporteur as well as Wt members from Ombuds grease here of course

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): (14:21) noted Herb

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): (14:21) which seems to be covered in our words

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): (14:21) thanks Herb

  Steve DelBianco: (14:22) review by the Ombuds would be appropriate in order to challenge whether an AC/SO properly reported its decision to the EC, and whether the actions of the decisional participants of the EC are reported accurately and completely in accordance with the ICANN  bylaws.

  Herb Waye Ombuds: (14:22) THere is no oversight role yet... that may come at end of ws2 work

  Herb Waye Ombuds: (14:23) Complaining is the key word

  Herb Waye Ombuds: (14:24) Sebastien may be better placed to comment on this, that recommendation may come from the sub-group

  Herb Waye Ombuds: (14:24) Yes

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): (14:24) trying get there. Herb

  Herb Waye Ombuds: (14:27) Alan, from experience most are accommodating unless there are hard deadlines like with the Reconsideration Process

  Herb Waye Ombuds: (14:29) I would hope they go back to discuss the issue, if communication breaks down then call in the ombuds

  Herb Waye Ombuds: (14:30) and only recommend

  Steve DelBianco: (14:30) Annex D in the new Bylaws describes how the EC works.  

  Steve DelBianco: (14:31) An Ombuds complaint is an option, not a requirement

  Farzaneh Badii: (14:31) There is a major difference between Ombuds and IRP, less formal non binding ...

  Herb Waye Ombuds: (14:34) Thanks Bernie, the new gTLD process was a great example of that type of gaming

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): (14:34) the isn't about IRP

  Herb Waye Ombuds: (14:35) The ombuds can only make recommendations that are put back to the community

  Farzaneh Badii: (14:35) I'd first understand the design of ombuds and what obuds does and the nature of decision, then object to it

  Farzaneh Badii: (14:36) I agree that ombuds should not be one person but an organization of some sort, but these concerns should be expressed at ombuds group

  Steve DelBianco: (14:37) Article 5 of ICANN Bylaws: "The charter of the Ombudsman shall be to act as a neutral dispute resolution practitioner for those matters for which the provisions of the Independent Review Process set forth in Section 4.3 have not been invoked. "

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): (14:37) exactly.. thanks for ensuring we all understand the Ombudsman office and role

  Bernard Turcotte - ICANN: (14:41) time check 19 minutes left in call

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): (14:41) and IF we as at agree on changes to our report

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): (14:41) noted Bernie

  Steve DelBianco: (14:41) This view was expressed by only one commenter, and was not supported by CCWG at its F2F meeting.  Therefore we are holding to the consensus view, that the IRP should not apply to SO/AC activities.

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): (14:47) our Diversity WT report is being transmitted to the plenary

  Farzaneh Badii: (14:47) I was in minority opinion about term limits steve. not the other

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): (14:48) I tried to make that point last week Alan

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): (14:49) not that I am against term limits at a

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): (14:50) l, just that we don't need to make it a Practice. proposed by us

  Steve DelBianco: (14:50) we are saying: Clarified that implementation of Good Practices are optional, on p. 8: "AC/SO/Groups are only expected to implement good practices to the extent that these practices are applicable and an improvement over present practices, in the view of AC/SO/Group participants."

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): (14:50) yes Alan exactly

  Steve DelBianco: (14:54) A minority of work team members want to add a good practice to consider term limits, for AC/SO/Groups that choose to hold elections.  

  Farzaneh Badii: (14:55) I agree with that

  Bernard Turcotte - ICANN: (14:55) time check 5 minutes left in call

  Steve DelBianco: (14:56) 3 of 9

  Farzaneh Badii: (14:56) Kavouss didnt vote

  Greg Shatan: (14:57) Typically we go by absence of opposition.

  Greg Shatan: (14:58) Not by absence of support.

  Sebastien (ALAC): (14:58) And some put red ticks

  Farzaneh Badii: (14:58) lets do that Steve.

  Farzaneh Badii: (14:58) lets go to ccwg

  Greg Shatan: (14:58) Isn't also accurate to say that a minority opposed it?

  Farzaneh Badii: (14:59) I think you are right Greg

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): (15:00) or state 3 members attending the call of Aug 24 called for... ...  

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): (15:00) we are at top of the hour

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): (15:01) extension by up to 5 min please

  Farzaneh Badii: (15:02) here: If ICANN were to expand the list of languages that it supports, availability of this support should also be extended  to publications of SO/AC/Groups.

  Steve DelBianco: (15:02) if ICANN were to expand the list of languages that it supports, this support should also be made available to SO/AC/Groups.

  Farzaneh Badii: (15:03) I added them to our report

  Bernard Turcotte - ICANN: (15:04) August 30th SOAC call is 1900UTC

  Bernard Turcotte - ICANN: (15:05) sorry 31 August 0500

  Herb Waye Ombuds: (15:05) Great meeting and dialogue everyone

  Farzaneh Badii: (15:05) thanks bye

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): (15:05) bye 👋

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