Attendees: 

Sub-group Members:   Alberto Soto, Asha Hemrajani, Avri Doria, Carlos Vera, Edward Morris, Elizabeth Andrews, Farzaneh Badii, Herb Waye, Mike Silber, Raoul Plommer, Robin Gross, Sebastien Bachollet, Sivasubramanian Muthusamy   (13)

Staff:  Bernie Turcotte, Brenda Brewer, Laena Rahim

Apologies:  Cheryl Langdon-Orr

**Please let Brenda know if your name has been left off the list (attendees or apologies).**

Transcript

Recording

Agenda

1.  Call Admin and Roll Call/Apologies

2.  Welcome – Opening Remarks – Meeting schedule (3 min SBT)

3.  Action items Call #1 DT Ombudsman (10 min SBT and all)

4.  Discuss our work plan  [short and medium term]  (15 min)

5.  Next Meeting (5 min)

6.  AOB (5 min)

Notes

1 Call Admin and Roll Call/Apologies Sebastien Bachollet

2.  Welcome – Opening Remarks – Meeting schedule (3 min SBT)

  • Asja Hemrajani: Possible to change 1900UTC proposed meetings to either of the two other slots?
  • Sebastien Bachollet: ACTION ITEM Propose this in an email to the group.

 3.  Action items Call #1 DT Ombudsman (10 min SBT and all)

  • Sebastien Bachollet: Use of Ombuds vs Ombudsman. Dependencies between the sub-groups. Most groups have coordination participants except for CEP and IRP. Evaluate current Ombuds charter vs itnernational best practices. Work can be split into 4 parts Independence, Neutrality and impartiality, Confidentiality and Informality and other standards.
  • Mike Silber: overly complex? should we not look at this holistically?
  • Sebastien Bachollet: do not disagree just trying to break down the work.
  • Herb Waye: we could possibly compare the types of Ombudsman roles (legislative, university etc.). There are quite a lot of variation between these types.
  • Mike Silber: could we ask someone from the current ombud's office to start with that? Always easier to work from a draft. could the Ombuds office do such a first rough draft?
  • Ed Morris: Edward Morris: Point I'm trying to make: Other groups and the entire CCWG have at times attempted to give the Ombudsman powers and responsibilities that go far beyond the traditional remit of an Ombudsman (i.e. fairness). George Sadowsky in Istanbul opined that what we were really talking about was more of an Inspector General than an Ombudsman. Has anyone considered this or, and perhaps Herb can chip in here, whether some of the things that have or may be proposed are beyond the Ombudsmans competence and how we should handle that. Or was George correct in stating we might want to first see if we want an Ombuddy or something else?
  • Mike Silber: Ed - valid point but IMO the way to do this is to look at the powers and framework. Then to hire candidates who embody those
  • Edward Morris: Let's sort what the powers are we want to give the position then figure out what the position should be.
  • Mike Silber: a very good example is the South African "Public Protector" and I will try find time to right a few lines about that
  • Herb Waye: agree there are limitations. Informality is critical. An Inspector General takes this in a completely different direction and is not an Ombuds role.
  • Asha Hemrajani: Agree with EM - we have to look at function and role and then we can look at how they perform that role. So we need a draft to get going.
  • Sebastien Bachollet: doing everything at once is difficult.

4.  Discuss our work plan  [short and medium term]  (15 min)

5.  Next Meeting (5 min)

  • Monday August 22, 1900 UTC.
  • Sebastien Bachollet: any questions for the next call Presentation by the past and current ICANN Ombuds?
  • Sivasubramanian: Mr Waye, are there examples of "informality" that you are talking about? And the boundaries for informality?  Could it be possible that at times lack of respectful attention could pass as informality?
  • Herb Waye: I can address informality next week during the presentation
  • Sebastien Bachollet: Robin can you be the liaison with the IRP group? RG agrees.

6.  AOB (5 min)

  • Sebastien Bachollet: any other business - none? Adjourned.

 

Documents Presented

Chat Transcript

 Brenda Brewer:Good day all and welcome to Ombudsman Subgroup Meeting #2 on 16 August 2016 @ 13:00 UTC!

  Edward Morris:Hi Brenda!

  Herb Waye:Hello everyone

  Bernard Turcotte Staff Support:hi all

  Mike Silber:greets

  Alberto Soto:Hello everyone!

  Asha Hemrajani:Hello all

  Asha Hemrajani:Staff could I please have a dial out

  Bernard Turcotte Staff Support:Have not checked but will do

  Brenda Brewer:Asha, please private chat your phone number to me

  Asha Hemrajani:I am in now

  Asha Hemrajani:Thanks

  Brenda Brewer:good to hear, Asha!

  Avri Doria:i thought we were doing rotating pain sharing.

  Mike Silber:https://ombudsresearch.org.uk/tag/ombud/ is a useful discussion on nomenclature

  Carlos Vera .. Ecuador:Saludos desde Ecuador

  Mike Silber:one ombud, two ombuds

  Mike Silber:could we ask someone from the current ombud's office to start with that?

  Bernard Turcotte Staff Support:Ed there is no sound

  Edward Morris:Could I please get another call out. +xxxxx 857 Thx

  Brenda Brewer:yes Ed

  Avri Doria:yes we hear you Ed

  Avri Doria:yes keeps dropping off mid sentence

  Mike Silber:we seem to be having an issue - could you rather type ed?

  Bernard Turcotte Staff Support:Ed you keep droppiing -

  Edward Morris:Sorry guys. The phone works fine elsewhere. :(

  Herb Waye:back

  Bernard Turcotte Staff Support:cam  you type your point in the chat?

  Asha Hemrajani:Maybe type in the chat Ed?

  Brenda Brewer:Calling again Ed.

  Edward Morris:Point I'm trying to make: Other groups and the entire CCWG have at times attempted to give the Ombudsman powers and responsibilities that go far beyond the traditional remit of an Ombudsman (i.e. fairness). Geiorge Sadowsky in Istanbul opined that what we were really talking about was more of an Inspector General than an Ombudsman. Has anyone considered this or, and perhaps Herb can chip in here, whether some of the things that have or may be proposed are beyond the Ombudsmans competence and how we should handle that. Or was George correct in stating we might want to first see if we want an Ombuddy or somerhing else?

  Edward Morris:Thanks Brenda

  Brenda Brewer:Apologies, Edward, the dialout won't go through.

  Mike Silber:Ed - valid point but IMO the way to do this is to look at the powers and framework. Then to hire candidates who embody those

  Edward Morris:Can you fimd me a call in number for Leeds?

  Edward Morris:UK

  Edward Morris:+1 Mike

  Mike Silber:a very good example is the South African "Public Protector" and I will try find time to right a few lines about that

  Edward Morris:Let's sort what the powers are we want to give the position then figure out what the position should be.

  Edward Morris:Thanks Mike

  Mike Silber:exactly!

  Raoul Plommer:Sounds good to me :)

  Edward Morris:+1 Asha

  Sivasubramanian M 2:Mr Waye, are there examples of "informality" that you are talking about? And the boundaries for informality?  Could it be possible that at times lack of respectful attention could pass as informality?

  Herb Waye:I can address informality next week during hte presentation

  Sivasubramanian M 2:Thank you Mr Waye

  Sivasubramanian M 2:Thanks Sebastien, for reading out the question

  Alberto Soto:no comments

  Robin Gross:I don't have audio but can type.

  Robin Gross:Yes I can do that.

  Herb Waye:Brenda do I send the ppt to you prior to the presentation?

  Asha Hemrajani:Would be good to get Herb's & Chris' ppt in advance.

  Herb Waye:I will send it in a few days in advance so Brenda can forward it o the gang

  Asha Hemrajani:That would be appreciated Herb.

  Bernard Turcotte Staff Support:bye all

  Brenda Brewer:Brenda =  acct-staff@icann.org

  Asha Hemrajani:Thanks and bye

  Alberto Soto:Thanks, bye, bye!!

  Avri Doria:bye

  Raoul Plommer:cheers!


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