Members: Alan Greenberg, Becky Burr, Cheryl Langdon-Orr, Eberhard Lisse, Fiona Asonga, Jordan Carter, Jorge Villa, Julia Wolman, Julie Hammer, Leon Sanchez, Lyman Chapin, Mathieu Weill, Olga Cavalli, Pär Brumark, Robin Gross, Roelof Meijer, Sébastien Bachollet, Steve DelBianco, Thomas Rickert, Tijani Ben Jemaa (20)
Participants: Aarti Bhavana, Allan MacGillivray, Andrew Sullivan, Avri Doria, Barrack Otieno, Brett Schaefer, Christopher Wilkinson, David Maher, David McAuley, Edward Morris, Farzahen Badii, Finn Petersen, Greg Shatan, Harold Arcos, Jonathan Zuck, Jorge Cancio, Kavouss Arasteh, Keith Drazek, Mary Uduma, Maura Gambassi, Megan Richards, Milton Mueller, Niels ten Oever, Pedro Ivo Silva, Philip Corwin, Sabine Meyer, Stephen Deerhake, Tatiana Tropina, Tom Dale, Tracy Hackshaw (30)
Legal Counsel: Holly Gregory, Michael Clark, Rosemary Fei, Stephanie Petit (4)
Observers and Guests: Barbara Wanner, Chris Wilson, David Johnson, Gangesh Varma, John Poole, Ryan Carroll (6)
Staff: Alice Jansen, Bernie Turcotte, Berry Cobb, Brenda Brewer, Grace Abuhamad, Hillary Jett, Karen Mulberry, Marika Konings, Nigel Hickson, Yuko Green
Apologies: Martin Boyle
**Please let Brenda know if your name has been left off the list (attendees or apologies).**
The Adobe Connect recording is available here: https://icann.adobeconnect.com/p5y5mu5bqvo/
The audio recording is available here: http://audio.icann.org/gnso/gnso-ccwg-acct-08dec15-en.mp3
1. Welcome, roll-call, SOI
2. Webinars and Board call debrief
3. IRP Subgroup
These high-level notes are designed to help you navigate through content of the call and do not
substitute in any way the transcript.
Webinars and Board call debrief
All Chartering Organizations are encouraged to hold calls. We are also encouraging you all to conduct outreach
A document that concentrates all Q&As will be published later today.
Co-Chairs held a call with Board for informational discussion. Transcript will be published. Board gave overview of comments
submitted. Agreement that Board would go deeper into detail. We were invited to hold another call that might take place next
Sunday with objective of having Q&A to guide Board on comments. This call is not a negotiation. Board input will be treated
at same level as community input. Refer to Bruce Tonkin's email for topics on which clarification needed: Human Rights,
inspection rights, Board consideration of GAC advice.
Responsible for substantive process design.
Becky will lead.
Review of EOIs received.
We had determined that if too big of a group, we would define selection criteria. The proposed group is of a manageable
size. In addition to size, diversity is important. Suggesting to keep numbers of individuals as is. We will keep group
opened for any additional contributors that would allow for better geographic representation.
If a policy that deployed independent review council, the policy would need to specify manner in which IRP would resolve
any inconsistencies. Lawyers will draft paperwork and implementation oversight team will review. There is no requirement
to be lawyer or prior experience but it is important to have key contributions. Kavouss Arasteh has volunteered.
ACTION ITEM: Staff to send a reminder to Kavouss Arasteh that an Expression of Interest is needed.
There is room for publishing a supplemental report if need be. Co-Chairs have prepared an email hat could be sent to
Chartering Organizations. Review of proposed letter.
Provisions for formal resolutions need to be consistent with timeline. There is precedent for CWG where one of the
COs issued a non-objection statement. Charter is not fully explicit on this Formal approval is better than anything else. It would be
inappropriate to take absence of answer as support or objection. We will need to assess level of support. We need to
be aware that we are asking to endorse recommendations which may leave implementation details open for dialogue (handled during implementation phase). It is important to communicate it to Chartering Organizations. We will need to assess
consensus for clarity. Recommendations are based on public consultations. CCWG-ACCT also charged with looking at overall
comments. Consensus will need to be revised if major concerns. Chartering organizations need to define process in own timeline.
ACTION ITEM: CoChairs to update draft and send
ALAC made comments on Mission Statement on Second Proposal. We need to understand rationale why not included.
ACTION ITEM: Becky to provide rationale
Marrakech: Since there is no confirmed plan for CCWG-ACCT to have a meeting adjacent to Marrakech, there will be
no travel funding for the CCWG members to attend ICANN55. In the past, CCWG members have received funding for
ICANN meetings as an exception to attend meetings outside of the ICANN program and extend stay for program. The
CCWG will have working sessions on the ICANN meeting schedule, for which there will be remote participation
available. Any funding for CCWG members who wish to attend Marrakesh should be discussed with the appointing
SO/AC since SO/ACs receive travel funding for ICANN meetings per the ICANN travel policy
- ACTION ITEM: Staff to send a reminder to Kavouss Arasteh that an Expression of Interest is needed.
- ACTION ITEM: CoChairs to update draft and send
- ACTION ITEM: Becky to provide rationale
- PDF: IRP Implementation Oversight Team.pdf
- PDF: CCWG Timeline.pdf
- DOC: Proposed note.docx | PDF: Proposed note.pdf
Brenda Brewer: (12/8/2015 12:32) Welcome all to the CCWG Accountability Meeting #71 on 8 December 2015 @ 19:00 UTC! Please note that chat sessions are being archived and follow the ICANN Expected Standards of Behavior: http://www.icann.org/en/news/in-focus/accountability/expected-standards
Sabine Meyer: (12:58) Hello everyone!
Becky Burr: (12:58) hello everyone
Olga Cavalli - GAC Argentina: (12:58) hello from Buenos Aires
Alan Greenberg: (12:59) I have an AOB item.
Aarti Bhavana: (12:59) Hi all!
Holly Gregory: (12:59) Greetings!
Greg Shatan: (12:59) Hello all.
FIONA ASONGA (ASO): (12:59) Hallo Everyone
Tatiana Tropina: (12:59) Hi all
Milton Mueller: (12:59) Greeting
Mathieu Weill, ccNSO, co-chair: (13:00) Hello everyone
Andrew Sullivan: (13:01) apologies that I will depart early
Bernard Turcotte Staff Support: (13:01) hello all
Pär Brumark (GAC Niue): (13:03) Hi all!
Greg Shatan: (13:03) Happy Birthday, CCWG!
Leon Sanchez (Co-Chair, ALAC): (13:03) Happyr birthday CCWG!
Robin Gross: (13:03) Greetings!
Rosemary Fei (Adler Colvin): (13:03) I'm in the room now.
David McAuley (RySG): (13:04) Amazing Kavouss, be well
Sabine Meyer: (13:04) Get well soon, Kavouss!
Thomas Rickert, CCWG Co-Chair: (13:04) Wow - Kavouss, that is quite a commitment.
Thomas Rickert, CCWG Co-Chair: (13:05) Get well soon!
Leon Sanchez (Co-Chair, ALAC): (13:05) Kavouss, get well soon
jorge cancio (GAC Switzerland): (13:05) full recovery wishes for Kavouss!!
Megan Richards European Commission: (13:05) rapid recovery for Kavouss !
Niels ten Oever: (13:05) Sorry to be late
Niels ten Oever: (13:06) hi all
Stephen Deerhake (.as): (13:06) Yes, fine.
Holly Gregory: (13:06) Kavouss, our thoughts are with you with all good wishes for your speedy recovery!
Jordan Carter (.nz, WP1 rapporteur): (13:07) get well soon, Kavouss!
Megan Richards European Commission: (13:07) is it just my connection or are there drops in the line ?
Robin Gross: (13:07) I get the drops too.
Maura Gambassi - IT: (13:07) hi all!!
Milton Mueller: (13:07) Megan, I felt some drops too
Jordan Carter (.nz, WP1 rapporteur): (13:07) No drops via the dial out service
jorge cancio (GAC Switzerland): (13:07) there should be no minors exposed to ccwg conf calls :D
Mathieu Weill, ccNSO, co-chair: (13:07) Are they audio drops ?
Milton Mueller: (13:08) just once
Greg Shatan: (13:08) Fine for me.
Sabine Meyer: (13:08) once, from Leon.
Megan Richards European Commission: (13:08) ok now
FIONA ASONGA (ASO): (13:08) it dropped once
Brett Schaefer: (13:08) dropped again
Greg Shatan: (13:09) No drops on the phone. Are those with drops on adobe audio?
David McAuley (RySG): (13:09) couple on adobe Greg
Sabine Meyer: (13:10) Yes, it seems to be Adobe-only.
Edward Morris: (13:11) Indeed, Adobe is very poor this evening.
Mathieu Weill, ccNSO, co-chair: (13:11) I sense a disturbance in Adobe
Pedro Ivo Silva [GAC Brasil]: (13:12) We had problems during yesterday's GAC call as well...
David McAuley (RySG): (13:12) adobe cannot cope with anniversary
jorge cancio (GAC Switzerland): (13:12) yesterday we had a real disturbance with adobe... during the GAC call...
Sabine Meyer: (13:13) Your lack of faith in Adobe Connect is disturbing.
Mathieu Weill, ccNSO, co-chair: (13:17) ;-)
Robin Gross [GNSO-NCSG]: (13:17) What are the points of doubt or needing clarification?
Greg Shatan: (13:17) Adobe Wan Kenobi?
Eberhard W Lisse [.NA ccTLD Manager]: (13:19) Audio is going off again
Robin Gross [GNSO-NCSG]: (13:19) ok - so only what was in that email from the board? thanks.
Mathieu Weill, ccNSO, co-chair: (13:20) Indeed Robin
Stephen Deerhake (.as): (13:23) IRP Oversight Team is overloaded with NA...
Megan Richards European Commission: (13:24) line is breaking up again
Harold Arcos 2: (13:26) I have drops on adobe audio
Megan Richards European Commission: (13:27) nothing coming through now
Olga Cavalli - GAC Argentina: (13:28) lack of diversity nobody from latin america
Greg Shatan: (13:28) I volunteer Leon. :-)
Olga Cavalli - GAC Argentina: (13:28) have no mic to speak
Andrew Sullivan: (13:28) dropped here too
Robin Gross [GNSO-NCSG]: (13:28) audio keeps dropping on AC room
Greg Shatan: (13:28) I volunteer Leon.
Harold Arcos (ALAC): (13:29) I lost adobe audio. I don't hear anything
Olga Cavalli - GAC Argentina: (13:29) audio in adobe is very bad
Leon Sanchez (Co-Chair, ALAC): (13:29) Thanks Greg! :-)
Megan Richards European Commission: (13:30) I second Leon !!
Mathieu Weill, ccNSO, co-chair: (13:31) Hey, volunteering co chairs is nnot fair !
Sabine Meyer: (13:32) Good thing you proposed a participant for the group, Mathieu!
Mathieu Weill, ccNSO, co-chair: (13:32) Was not an easy sell ;-)
Mathieu Weill, ccNSO, co-chair: (13:32) ... to convince her to apply ;-)
Steve DelBianco [GNSO - CSG]: (13:33) Bylaws commit to bottom-up policy development. If an expert/objection panel made a decision that was against that policy, that could be challenged
Becky Burr: (13:34) that is also correct Steve
David McAuley (RySG): (13:35) Good point Tijani
Olga Cavalli - GAC Argentina: (13:36) + 1 to tijani
Andrew Sullivan: (13:36) alas, I must drop. Bye all
Eberhard W Lisse [.NA ccTLD Manager]: (13:38) Audio is dropping a lot
Becky Burr: (13:38) agree alan
Leon Sanchez (Co-Chair, ALAC): (13:38) Haven't have any drops on audio bridge so far
Bernard Turcotte Staff Support: (13:38) whoever has the straw please mute
Stephen Deerhake (.as): (13:42) Will this letter be posted somehwere where it can be read (AC font is microscopic)
Steve DelBianco [GNSO - CSG]: (13:43) from our Charter: "In the event that one or more of the participating SO’s or AC’s do(es) not adopt one or more of the recommendation(s) contained in the Draft Proposal(s), the Co-Chairs of the CCWG-Accountability shall be notified accordingly. This notification shall include at a minimum the reasons for the lack of support and a suggested alternative that would be acceptable, if any. The CCWG-Accountability may, at its discretion, reconsider, post for public comments and/or submit to the chartering organizations a Supplemental Draft Proposal, which takes into accounting the concerns raised.
Greg Shatan: (13:44) @Stephen, you should have + button below the pdf to zoom in.
Eberhard W Lisse [.NA ccTLD Manager]: (13:44) I also do not want to read it on screen only, I print things I have to consider properly.
jorge cancio (GAC Switzerland): (13:45) dear Mathieu: we had a pending question.
Brenda Brewer: (13:45) @ Stephen, call notes will be sent out with link to the wiki page : https://community.icann.org/x/AcFYAw
Stephen Deerhake (.as): (13:45) Thanks @Greg. I'm a bit of a ludite with AC.
jorge cancio (GAC Switzerland): (13:45) Does non adoption imply explicit rejection or does non-adoption also imply a possibility of simple "non adoption" i.e. no decision to adopt and also no decision to reject
Alice Jansen: (13:46) Letter can be found https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/56148225/Proposed%20note.pdf?version=1&modificationDate=1449603853946&api=v2
Greg Shatan: (13:47) Stephen, Be careful with those ludes! :-
Robin Gross [GNSO-NCSG]: (13:50) Individual stakeholder groups and constituencies are working on their public comment input until 21 December. And so it would be hard for the GNSO to give a final say also on that day. It seems we need to build time for SG's and SOAC's to consider the public comment before deciding
Brett Schaefer: (13:51) What if multiple chartering organizations take no position? How many supporting statements are necessary for moving forward?
jorge cancio (GAC Switzerland): (13:51) In January we should know - there might be SO/AC which cannot take a position on one or some recommendations
Eberhard W Lisse [.NA ccTLD Manager]: (13:52) One thing is ABSOLUTELY clear, no response is NOT agreement!
Steve DelBianco [GNSO - CSG]: (13:52) DId Mathoeu really say we are in unchartered territory? That's brilliant!
Eberhard W Lisse [.NA ccTLD Manager]: (13:52) We have tossed the CHarter out long ago
Tatiana Tropina: (13:53) Milton Mueller asks for a turn to speak - he is now on audio bridge only
Tatiana Tropina: (13:53) can we put him on the queue? thanks
Mathieu Weill, ccNSO, co-chair: (13:53) ACK Tatiana - Milton
Greg Shatan: (13:54) Kavouss's #4 aligns with my hypothetical.
Keith Drazek: (13:58) Milton is up next
Greg Shatan: (13:58) It would be nice if the areas of concern were all "implementation level," which would allow recommendations to be adopted. This kicks the can down the road on disagreements. But it is still entirely possible that the problems are recommendation level issues.
Jordan Carter (.nz, WP1 rapporteur): (14:00) we agreed to collapse the two processes shortly after Dublin
Keith Drazek: (14:01) Wouldn't the Chartering Organizations have their respective internal processes for evaluating and assessing the proposal, separate from the broader public comment period?
Robin Gross [GNSO-NCSG]: (14:02) I don't agree that "we" agreed to that, Jordan.
Robin Gross [GNSO-NCSG]: (14:02) The Chartering Organizations should consider the public comment as part of its evaluation.
Jordan Carter (.nz, WP1 rapporteur): (14:02) but we did - as that is the process that the CCWG has set out and has not overturned. So, I'm afraid that "we" did.
Robin Gross [GNSO-NCSG]: (14:04) I recall "we" were told, but "we" didn't make that decision.
Eberhard W Lisse [.NA ccTLD Manager]: (14:04) It is not in our CHarter to make it up as we go along.
Stephen Deerhake (.as): (14:04) Are the co-chairs certain that the bylaws of the chartering organizations can weigh in on this proposal?
Jordan Carter (.nz, WP1 rapporteur): (14:05) and I sure don't support changing the proces now, when it's well in train.
Jordan Carter (.nz, WP1 rapporteur): (14:05) Stephen, how do you mean?
Stephen Deerhake (.as): (14:05) @Milton: +1
Robin Gross [GNSO-NCSG]: (14:06) +1 Milton
Eberhard W Lisse [.NA ccTLD Manager]: (14:06) +0.9999 Herr Professor Dr Mueller
Eberhard W Lisse [.NA ccTLD Manager]: (14:07) The Charter doesn't say "most of the coommunity is familiar with it"
Eberhard W Lisse [.NA ccTLD Manager]: (14:07) as being enough
Steve DelBianco [GNSO - CSG]: (14:08) My point is about the process our charter requires. Our chartering orgs will answer according to their internal process for making decsisions, and THAT will define when we deliver our porposal to the Board
Robin Gross [GNSO-NCSG]: (14:08) This CCWG seems concerningly out of the hands of the members.
Eberhard W Lisse [.NA ccTLD Manager]: (14:09) Robi, havebn't you figured out yet, that there are interests at play here? They will do whatever it takes.
Eberhard W Lisse [.NA ccTLD Manager]: (14:09) As I wrote when we started.
Keith Drazek: (14:09) I support a public comment period for anyone who feels they are outside one of the Chartering Organizations. It's not clear to me why anyone else would submit public comments *instead of* contributing to deliberations within their respective stakeholder groups, constituencies or SO/ACs. The RySG (working with the RrSG) are currently working on comments, but I believe the expectation is to submit then into the GNSO discussion first.
Becky Burr: (14:09) ok, i can go through alan's comments and respond again
Becky Burr: (14:10) some of them were addressed in public meetings Alan
Alan Greenberg: (14:10) Thanks Becky.
Robin Gross [GNSO-NCSG]: (14:10) Steve, our (NCSG's) internal process is that we evaluate public comment of others in making our own decisions. So the order is important.
Alan Greenberg: (14:11) @Becky, perhaps, but not that I recall.
Jordan Carter (.nz, WP1 rapporteur): (14:11) We aren't having a face to face meeting in Marrakech?
Sabine Meyer: (14:12) I might or might not have totally made room in my schedule for a Friday F2F.
Robin Gross [GNSO-NCSG]: (14:12) Our report we will decide on what's in WS2 in Marrakech.
Jordan Carter (.nz, WP1 rapporteur): (14:12) I couldn't care less about travel funding, but surely we have to get on with WS2?
Robin Gross [GNSO-NCSG]: (14:12) Our report SAYS we will do that in Marrakech
Eberhard W Lisse [.NA ccTLD Manager]: (14:12) We need to know when this needs to be decided so we can make bookings
Stephen Deerhake (.as): (14:13) Ah, perhaps we are learning the fate of WS2 here?
Eberhard W Lisse [.NA ccTLD Manager]: (14:13) I really do not want to book to arrive on SUnday, pay for the ticket and then they will have one on Thursday with a week or two notice as usuasl
Mathieu Weill, ccNSO, co-chair: (14:14) So far there are 3* 90 minutes slots during the regular Icann week. WS2 and implementation would be on agenda
Mathieu Weill, ccNSO, co-chair: (14:14) We can certainly start planning for that
Robin Gross [GNSO-NCSG]: (14:14) So CCWG members would participate remotely at the Marrakech meeting in the 3 CCWG mtgs? That's the plan?
Eberhard W Lisse [.NA ccTLD Manager]: (14:14) I could not cre less either way, but we need to know about when to arrive!
Mathieu Weill, ccNSO, co-chair: (14:15) @Robin: SO/ACs have travel funding. CWG never had travel funding, for instance
Jordan Carter (.nz, WP1 rapporteur): (14:15) +10, Eberhard
Mathieu Weill, ccNSO, co-chair: (14:15) (during Icann meetings)
Robin Gross [GNSO-NCSG]: (14:15) who makes the decision? ICANN staff? the co-chairs? the CCWG members?
Robin Gross [GNSO-NCSG]: (14:17) when will the decision be made if "we" will want a F2F?
Avri Doria: (14:17) Probably sort of maybe depends on the comments we get.
Jordan Carter (.nz, WP1 rapporteur): (14:17) Robin, do you mean in between now and Marakechc?
Robin Gross [GNSO-NCSG]: (14:17) in Marrakech
Jordan Carter (.nz, WP1 rapporteur): (14:18) or do you mean to prep a third draft proposal supplementary report?
Jordan Carter (.nz, WP1 rapporteur): (14:18) oh
Robin Gross [GNSO-NCSG]: (14:18) My point is we need to decide soon.
Christopher Wilkinson (CW): (14:19) thankyou, Co-Chairs. Good night. CW
Avri Doria: (14:19) can we decide before we see the comments?
Cheryl Langdon-Orr: (14:19) bye for now thanks everyone...
Mathieu Weill, ccNSO, co-chair: (14:19) Thank you everyone !
Jordan Carter (.nz, WP1 rapporteur): (14:19) thanks all!
David McAuley (RySG): (14:19) My nomination for chat entry of the day: Greg Shatan: Adobe Wan Kenobi?
Pär Brumark (GAC Niue) 2: (14:19) Thx all!
Bernard Turcotte Staff Support: (14:19) bye all
Niels ten Oever: (14:19) bye all
Avri Doria: (14:19) byee
Olga Cavalli - GAC Argentina: (14:19) bye thanks
Jonathan Zuck/ACT: (14:19) thanks
FIONA ASONGA (ASO): (14:19) Thanks bye
Tracy Hackshaw (Trinidad & Tobago): (14:19) bye all
Leon Sanchez (Co-Chair, ALAC): (14:19) thanks everyone, bye