Members:  Alan Greenberg, Alice Munyua, Athina Fragkouli, Becky Burr, Cheryl Langdon-Orr, Jorge Villa, Julia Wolman, Julie Hammer, Leon Sanchez, Lyman Chapin, Pär Brumark, Olga Cavalli, Robin Gross, Samantha Eisner, Sébastien Bachollet, Thomas Rickert, Tijani Ben Jemaa  (17)

Participants:  Avri Doria, Barrack Otieno, Carlos Raul, David McAuley, Greg Shatan, James Bladel, Jonathan Zuck, Jorge Cancio, Kavouss Arasteh, Keith Drazek, Martin Boyle, Matthew Shears, Nigel Roberts, Padmini Baruah, Paul Twomey, Pedro Ivo Silva, Phil Buckingham, Sabine Meyer, Tapani Tarvainen, Tom Dale, Tracy Hackshaw, Yasuichi Kitamura   (22)

Legal Counsel:  Holly Gregory, Michael Clark, Rosemary Fei, Stephanie Petit

Staff: Alice Jansen, Berry Cobb, Brenda Brewer, Grace Abuhamad, Hillary Jett, Kim Carlson, Laena Rahim

Apologies:  Eberhard Lisse, Izumi Okutani, Mathieu Weill

**Please let Brenda know if your name has been left off the list (attendees or apologies).**



Proposed Agenda

1. Welcome, Roll Call & SoI

2. Update on public comment tool (PC1), webinars & status of public comment on Second Draft Proposal

3. Human Rights Related Work 

4. Public Comment on Second Draft Proposal (PC2) process 

5. Outreach

6. A.O.B


These high-level notes are designed to help you navigate through content of the call and do not substitute in any way the transcript. 

1. Greg Shatan and Nigel Roberts on phone. 

Reminder: you are invited to fill in your statement of interest if incomplete. Staff is happy to assist. 

2.   Webinars

You are encouraged to spread the archives of the webinar. It is important that we get as much visibility as possible and as much community feedback as possible. There is a possibility to add another webinar towards the end of public comment period. Please let your respective communities know that we are happy to accommodate. We have received interesting questions from participants. They have been captured. Q&A will be published on our wiki. We are applying final touches and it will be published shortly after this call. 


- Invitations should be sent in UTC. Conflicting messages were sent in other webinars: e.g. PTI related comment on ICG webinar. Suggestion to review questions and answers. If answers require further clarification, we may want to consider providing further clarification. The document is complex even for those who have folllowed CCWG carefully. The third webinar should be scheduled 15 days prior to deadline. 

ACTION ITEM CoChairs to double check whether there are areas on which the CCWG can shed more light and to reach out to ICG to ensure the community has appropriate information. 

ACTION ITEM: Kavouss to send his calendar source to staff and Cochairs to determine error. 

ACTION ITEM: Staff to accommodate a webinar mid public comment period.


We have received two comments and will begin analyzing the comments before the comment period ends. 


PC1 responses are being reviewed by Rapporteurs are finalizing comments. The report is due on 19 August. 

Comments have made their way into the recently published report - as appropriate. We are confirming work that has already been done. This group is being transparent to community about how comments were processed. 


- We should not be focusing on this now.

--> We committed to providing detailed analysis and response. 

- We need to record what we have done. It is a part of completion process. It is essential to document it. 

- It is unfortunate we did not focus on responses as we did work. We have to do this.

3. Human Rights

There was a very vivid discussion about HR. We agreed to include a reference to human rights in our report acknowledging that there is more work to be done (see section in Work Stream 2). We have not been able to come up with consensus language and have provided language that was in discussion (paragraph 152). 

We have set up a mailing-list for discussing this issue. We have discussed whether we should be meeting in Dublin. The objective is to discuss expectation of WG. 


- We cannot amend PC2 but we should be prepared to discuss in Dublin. We should look into Human Rights as a whole.

- The subgroup needs to come up with a simple statement for Bylaws. We need to flesh out a set of topics that will need to covered in WS2. 

- What does Human Rights mean in ICANN context? We have to know what we are saying when we put this statement into the Bylaws. Board has underlying documents to explain what bylaws is. A lot needs to be done in terms of implementation. 

- On our to-do list: 1) Bylaw change; 2) common understanding of what we are putting into Bylaw (understanding of what fundamental rights is) ; 3) identify list for Work Stream 2. We must draw clear delineated boundaries. 

- We have to be aware that we are putting this for technical and business community, not for diplomats. We need to be careful as well in context of independent review panel. We are getting caught up in definitions. 

- Remain high level, not simple. We should avoid political motivation.

- We need to clarify in which field it can be applied and in which it cannot be applied to avoid any polemics. 

CONCLUSION: Agree on high level statement. 

ACTION ITEM: Subgroup to gather language that has been suggested and to put together a strawman text (Bylaw) along with rationale for CCWG discussion by mid September. This timeline will allow for conclusion in final report. Nigel is to coordinate.  

4 PC2

We will be using PC1 tool for consistency. Staff is incorporating comments as they arrive. Staff will implement timezone rotation to ensure it is up-to-date asap. Staff will also be providing weekly summary of input received to Chairs/Rapporteurs.


- Suggest using subgroups for analysis. 

ACTION ITEM: Thomas is to follow up on Kavouss' suggestion to have analysis subgroups for PC2

5. Outreach

This agenda item is to give you the opportunity to relay comments you have received from  your communities. Early warning system helps us a great deal.

- Note: there is possibility to post comment to NTIA. 


- Presentation of Core Values: columns should include existing 11 core values and amendments to these. Comparison is needed. Detected report gaps: example: 211-228 

ACTION ITEM: Kavouss to send details on report gaps.

- We need to include original ones (third column). It is very confusing.

ACTION ITEM - Becky to produce comparison to existing Bylaws

- Suggestion to have a repository for issues. Use a simple English approach (e.g. compact is very difficult to understand). Proofreading is desirable. 

ACTION ITEM: Share any items you believe need clarification in the report to the list. 

- Report puts GAC in a disadvantage position. 

--> We are not changing anything with GAC advice. There is no intention to marginalize GAC advice

6. A.O.B

Action Items

ACTION ITEM CoChairs to double check whether there are areas on which the CCWG can shed more light and to reach out to ICG to ensure the community has appropriate information. 

ACTION ITEM: Kavouss to send his calendar source to staff and Cochairs to determine error. 

ACTION ITEM: Staff to accommodate a webinar mid public comment period.

ACTION ITEM: Subgroup to gather language that has been suggested and to put together a strawman text (Bylaw) along with rationale for CCWG discussion by mid September. This timeline will allow for conclusion in final report. Nigel is to coordinate.  

ACTION ITEM: Thomas is to follow up on Kavouss' suggestion to have analysis subgroups for PC2. 

ACTION ITEM: Kavouss to send details on report gaps.

ACTION ITEM - Becky to produce comparison to existing Bylaws

ACTION ITEM: Share any items you believe need clarification in the report to the list

Documents Presented

Chat Transcript

Kimberly Carlson: (8/10/2015 14:40) Welcome to CCWG Accountability Meeting #48 on 11 August!  Please note that chat sessions are being archived and follow the ICANN Expected Standards of Behavior: 

  arasteh: (8/11/2015 05:51) Hi KIM

  arasteh: (05:51) hI THOSE ALREADY oN LINE

  Kimberly Carlson: (05:51) Hello!

  arasteh: (05:51) hI bRENDA

  Brenda Brewer: (05:52) Good Day Kavouss!

  Padmini: (05:53) Hi :)

  Olga Cavalli - GAC Argentina: (05:53) hello good morning here in buenos aires !

  Rosemary Fei (Adler & Colvin): (05:53) Good morning!

  Leon Sanchez (Co-Chair, ALAC): (05:56) Hello everyone!

  Sabine Meyer (GAC - Germany): (05:57) hello everyone!

  jorge cancio (GAC): (05:57) hello all!

  Tom Dale (GAC Secretariat): (05:58) Hello all

  becky burr: (05:58) good morning from DC

  arasteh: (05:58) lLeo, Thomas and Mathieu .if every bod is present. Must be tired

  Padmini: (05:58) I am catching a lot of static. Has the call started?

  Kimberly Carlson: (05:59) We're still gathering, call has not started

  arasteh: (05:59) I hope they together with other texts editors and text assemblers as weéll as ICANN staff are recovered by now

  Julia Wolman GAC Denmark: (06:00) Hello all

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr ALAC - APRegional Member: (06:01) Hi all

  Michael Clark (Sidley): (06:01) Good day all

  Phil Buckingham: (06:01) good afternoon

  Thomas Rickert, CCWG Co-Chair: (06:01) Hi all!

  Alice Jansen: (06:02) Happy Birthay Greg!

  Sabine Meyer (GAC - Germany): (06:02) happy birthday!

  Martin Boyle, Nominet: (06:02) Happy birthday to Greg

  Carlos Raul: (06:02) Happy B-day

  jorge cancio (GAC): (06:02) you ;-)

  Keith Drazek: (06:03) Hi all

  Martin Boyle, Nominet: (06:03) (An excellent way to spend a birthday, too!)

  Rosemary Fei (Adler & Colvin): (06:03) Happy Birthday, Greg!

  arasteh: (06:03) Happy Birth day to Our active Friend Grecf

  Megan Richards: (06:03) happy birthday !!

  Pär Brumark (GAC Niue): (06:04) Hi all!

  Alice Jansen: (06:04) Thomas - I am having audio issue

  Alice Jansen: (06:04) redialing my apologies

  Athina Fragkouli (ASO): (06:06) hello all!

  Julia Wolman GAC Denmark: (06:08) I think another webinar later on would be a very good idea, especially as it high holiday season now in many countries

  jorge cancio (GAC): (06:09) good point, Julia

  Leon Sanchez (Co-Chair, ALAC): (06:09) @Kavouss thanks for pointing this out. We will surely ask staff to kindly review this issue for future events and point the time in UTC

  David McAuley (RySG): (06:10) Good morning all, and +1 @Julia

  Matthew Shears: (06:14) + 1 additional webinar

  Greg Shatan (Birthday Boy): (06:14) Thank you all for your kind birthday wishes!  It's  a  great way to start a birthday!

  Carlos Raul: (06:14) drnks pending.....

  Sébastien (ALAC): (06:15) And we would like to have the 2 options

  Julia Wolman GAC Denmark: (06:15) what about in the beginning of sept, then there is still time to provide comments

  Sabine Meyer (GAC - Germany): (06:15) you get an extra webinar, Greg!

  arasteh: (06:15) CCWG ACCT Meeting | 12:00 UTC | 11 AugustWhen Tue Aug 11, 2015 7pm – 9pm Bangkok

  arasteh: (06:15) This is what is on Google Calender

  arasteh: (06:15) Indicating Bangkok

  arasteh: (06:16) Leon You see the BANGKOK

  Carlos Raul: (06:17) yes

  Olga Cavalli - GAC Argentina: (06:20) avris audio is not good

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr ALAC - APRegional Member: (06:20) Agree with Avri... and the manner we are dealing with the PC's  is in keeping wioth ATRT 1 recomendations 

  Greg Shatan (Birthday Boy): (06:21) Agree with Avri as well.  This feels like standard practice to me.  Otherwise, the comment period is far less meaningful.

  Holly Gregory: (06:21) Good morning

  Jonathan Zuck (IPC): (06:21) Agree

  Avri Doria: (06:22) sorry i forgot to turn off wifi on my phone.  it seems to break up worse when i do.

  Julia Wolman GAC Denmark: (06:22) +1 Avri

  Avri Doria: (06:22) ... or rather when I don't.

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr ALAC - APRegional Member: (06:23) good point Thomas

  Sébastien (ALAC): (06:24) OK go

  Sébastien (ALAC): (06:25) It was intentionnal

  Tijani BEN JEMAA: (06:25) I don't here anything any more

  Alan Greenberg: (06:25) Kavouss talking now. If you don't here, it is on your end

  Thomas Rickert, CCWG Co-Chair: (06:25) Thanks, Sébastien!

  Alan Greenberg: (06:25) here=hear

  Carlos Raul: (06:27) I suggest they also go over the commments on the 1st draft..........

  Carlos Raul: (06:27) ....some of then are still in limbo

  Tijani BEN JEMAA: (06:27) it was my line

  Megan Richards: (06:28) difficult for CCWG to ask for transparency from ICANN if it does not apply the same principles:-)

  Tijani BEN JEMAA: (06:28) they called me back

  Tijani BEN JEMAA: (06:28) thx Alan

  Paul Twomey: (06:30) Hi everyone

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr ALAC - APRegional Member: (06:31) Hi Paul

  Padmini: (06:32) Could I please be added to said mailing list?

  Brenda Brewer: (06:32) Nigel Roberts is on phone line only.

  jorge cancio (GAC): (06:32) On HR I feel that the public comment period still gives us an opportunity to sense the general sentiment within the larger community and act accordingly still under WS1

  Kimberly Carlson: (06:33) @Padmini, yes I'll add you

  Padmini: (06:34) Thanks!

  David McAuley (RySG): (06:34) pls mute lines if not speaking

  Alice Jansen: (06:35) Loud typing - could you please mute?

  Avri Doria: (06:36) I think that we need to a- comeup with wording for a simple statement for  the bylaws of an value of repsecting human rights  within ICANN's mission and operations b - we should flesh out the topics that will need discussion as part of WS2

  Jonathan Zuck (IPC): (06:36) “I loved...[human rights]... against reason, against promise, against peace, against hope, against happiness, against all discouragement that could be.”

  jorge cancio (GAC): (06:37) +1 to Avri

  arasteh: (06:37) Secretaraiat


  Matthew Shears: (06:39) agree with Avri above

  arasteh: (06:44) nIGEL i AM HERE

  Carlos Raul: (06:49) ?????

  David McAuley (RySG): (06:49) audio?

  Carlos Raul: (06:49) did we loose the chair

  Carlos Raul: (06:49) nowhere to sit

  Leon Sanchez (Co-Chair, ALAC): (06:50) LOL

  Leon Sanchez (Co-Chair, ALAC): (06:50) luckily we didn't lose a chair Carlos!

  Carlos Raul: (06:51) :)

  Avri Doria: (06:54) i am happy to have Nigel take this task on, i volunteer to help and to comment.

  Greg Shatan (Birthday Boy): (06:55) I have to disagree with that approach.  We can't reach an understanding on bylaws text without reaching an understanding on its meaning.

  David McAuley (RySG): (06:55) I volunteer to help as well

  Matthew Shears: (06:55) also hapy to help

  Avri Doria: (06:55) Greg, I understood the task Nigel was taking on included a degree of undestanding and explanation.

  Thomas Rickert, CCWG Co-Chair: (06:56) Greg, bylaw language is most important to have. Provide as much rationale as you can, but do not take on too much work during the initial phase.

  Thomas Rickert, CCWG Co-Chair: (06:56) That is our only concern.

  Greg Shatan (Birthday Boy): (06:56) Thank you, Avri.  I had hoped and understood that to be the case, but Leon's answer seemed to indicate otherwise.  If you are correct, I support this approach.

  Avri Doria: (06:56) Greg, you make a good argument about the board needing to provide a reasonand exlanation of whaat the bylaw is about.  We should help them by providing that.

  Greg Shatan (Birthday Boy): (06:56) I volunteer to help  as well.

  Greg Shatan (Birthday Boy): (06:56) Thank you, Avri.

  Alan Greenberg: (06:57) I think that Paul's comment about the impact of external panels decisions made based on whatever working we use is an important point.

  Alan Greenberg: (06:57) wording..

  Greg Shatan (Birthday Boy): (06:57) Thomas, as I said, this is intended to steer the work on Human Rights, not to stall it.  I'm confident a group working together can strike the right balance.

  Leon Sanchez (Co-Chair, ALAC): (06:58) Could you please mute your mics if not speaking?

  Padmini: (07:00) how though? I can't find a button

  Avri Doria: (07:00) I am not som much trying to steer, ad certainly not to stall.  All I want to make sure of is that ICANN be committed to understanding and respecting human rights in its mission and operations.

  Alan Greenberg: (07:02) I agree with that. The Bylaw changes were VERY confusing.

  Greg Shatan (Birthday Boy): (07:03) I am as well, but as you say we need to provide a reasoned explanation/rationale of the meaning and effect of this commitment.  At the level of detail helpful to community and to the Board.

  Alan Greenberg: (07:08) Agree with Sebastien. There are things that I want to point out (in this case, a VERY LONG run-on sentence that is nearly impossible to parse). There should be a place other than the public ocmments for point these out.

  Alan Greenberg: (07:12) Current wording uses the phrase "will then try, in good faith and a timely manner, to find a mutually acceptable solution"

  Becky Burr: (07:12) i do not believe that the bylaws change at all with respect to GAC advice and the finding a solution

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr ALAC - APRegional Member: (07:13) xactly Becky ? Alan

  David McAuley (RySG): (07:13) pls mute lines

  Keith Drazek: (07:13) The RySG will discuss on its bi-weekly teleconference this week.

  Becky Burr: (07:14) also, GAC advice is not subject to the IRP.  If ICANN violates the bylaws in following GAC advice, ICANN's action (not the GAC advice) can be challanged through the IRP

  David McAuley (RySG): (07:14) Good advice Thomas

  Pär Brumark (GAC Niue): (07:16) Txh all!

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr ALAC - APRegional Member: (07:16) All OK  from me

  James Bladel: (07:16) Thanks all.

  Matthew Shears: (07:16) thanks all

  Athina Fragkouli (ASO): (07:16) thank you all

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr ALAC - APRegional Member: (07:17) Thanks  alll bye for now

  Rosemary Fei (Adler & Colvin): (07:17) Good bye, all,  Until next time.,

  David McAuley (RySG): (07:17) Thanks and bye all

  Holly Gregory: (07:17) Thank you everyone

  Martin Boyle, Nominet: (07:17) tanks, bye

  Michael Clark (Sidley): (07:17) Thanks bye

  jorge cancio (GAC): (07:17) bye

  Paul Twomey: (07:17) bye

  Greg Shatan (Birthday Boy): (07:17) Bye all!

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