Sub-Group Members: Alan Greenberg, Antonia Chu, Athina Fragkouli, Cheryl Langdon-Orr, Farzaneh Badii, Finn Petersen, Greg Shatan, Izumi Okutani, Jan Scholte, Jonathan Zuck, Jorge Villa, Kavouss Arasteh, Ken Salaets, Laena Rahim, Leon Sanchez, Malcolm Hutty, Nick Shorey, Olga Cavalli, Par Brumark, Rafael Perez Galindo, Robin Gross, Rudi Daniel, Sebastien Bachollet, Seun Ojediji, Willie Currie (25)
Staff: Adam Peake, Alice Jansen, Brenda Brewer
Apologies: Jeff Newman, Keith Drazek, Matthew Shears, Akinbo Adebunmi, Avri Doria, Phil Buckingham
**Please let Brenda know if your name has been left off the list (attendees or apologies).**
- The Adobe Connect recording is available here: https://icann.adobeconnect.com/p4rm9fwbjfx/
- The audio recording is available here: http://audio.icann.org/gnso/gnso-wp3-08jul15-en.mp3
1- Welcome and roll-call
2- Review of Action Items from call #1
3- Review of preliminary results from sub-groups
4- Next steps and AOB
5- Closing remarks
Action: Leon's document to be uploaded to the wiki.
WP3 Meeting #2 -- 8th July 2015
These high-level notes are designed to help you navigate through content of the call and do not substitute in any way the transcript.
1. Welcome and roll-call
Alan Greenberg calling in.
2. Review of Action Items from call #1
Please review the geographic review document, noted in the reading list and recently sent to the mailing list.
The Board will act in Dublin, after a period of delay the document will be
acted on. The final document hasn't yet be present to the board for
action. Expected that will be implemented, included some degree of
self-selection for some small islands, but the overall structure of 5
regions will remain, with some self determination to be considered.
Asks why the paper is particularly relevant? Perhaps in that it doesn't do much to address diversity issues.
Comment: Was the large and populous region of the Asia Pacific fairly represented? Could the number of regions be
increased, perhaps to 7. But this represents the current option on geographic regions in ICANN. But there is discussion of sub-regional groupings.
Volunteers to populate sub-groups.
Haven't noticed any until an hour ago, when one participant asked to join the staff accountability sub-groups.
sub-groups: SO/AC accountability, staff and board accountability, Diversity
* SO/AC accountability -
* Staff accountability -
Please add name on the relevant wiki page or make your interest known to staff: firstname.lastname@example.org
What are the work stream 2 issue in regards to each of the accountability, transparency, diversity issues.
We should not remain silent on diversity in the IRP panel or in the SO/AC accountability
Presentation of a draft document on SO/AC accountability. Based on a
review of documents on the reading list. Identifying mechanisms already
in place. Leon, "preliminary inventory of existing accountability
mechanisms for SO/AC". Will be shared with the group.
Many of the AoC issues are targeting board and staff rather than the SO/AC
Bylaws, leaves open for each SO/AC to consider accountability/transparency
in their own procedures. We might dive into these to see how they address
this. And make broad recommendations, but not in details.
SO bylaws must be approved by the Board. ACs do not have to do this.
Jan S. The SO/AC gain very significant powers under the proposals, but
preliminary review see there are almost no provisions that hold the SO/AC
accountable to their own or the broader Internet community. This is a
Jan is right. And we know that the groups in ICANN only represent a very
small subset of the larger community. Can make sure that those
participating are accountable to their own membership.
ICANN talks about the need for diversity, but we don't do a lot about it.
What is different is now significant new powers are about to be given to
the SO/AC, and perhaps these issues cannot be put off further. Even to
Identify and itemize issues, and relate to any WS1 issue.
Do we need to make each constituency accountable? We are looking at a
complex path. The problem is implementability.
When talking about SO/AC accountability, we talk about accountability to
the community (i.e. other SO/AC), then the the community it represents.
Are we talking about accountability of the GNSO, or SGs or constituencies.
Is it a self governance issue, or to be dealt with by some outside agent.
Do we really trust the "community". We are empowering the community
We want to hold the Board accountable, but concern also about the
community. We need to find a way to do something, but be careful about
where we put our trust.
Raise as objectives or questions. So they are accountable within their
own community and the community as a whole
Sub group of WP1 and weighting mechanisms. ACs looks at broader issues than ICANN.
Action: Leon's document to be uploaded to the wiki.
Meeting times for the WP3 calls, which are the correct dates and times.
The calendar invites are correct. Next call Friday 10th at 06:00 UTC.
Staff confirm the calendar invites are accurate.
When will we have follow-up discussion on the lawyer's presentation?
Homework for the group to review and a wider discussion in the group about the models. Build consensus is Paris. And on the call next Tuesday.
Calls scheduled to accommodate other CCWG calls and to, as possible, share the burden of inconvenient call times.
If you wish please use the presented document of SO AC existing mechanisms as a basic template.
Action: Leon's document to be uploaded to the wiki.
Brenda Brewer: (7/8/2015 08:23) Welcome to WP3 Meeting #2 on 8th July at 14:00 UTC! Please note that chat sessions are being archived and follow the ICANN Expected Standards of Behavior: http://www.icann.org/en/news/in-focus/accountability/expected-standards
Olga Cavalli - GAC Argentina: (08:56) Hello!
Pär Brumark (GAC Niue): (08:56) Hi Olga!
Olga Cavalli - GAC Argentina: (08:56) Hi Par! doing well?
Pär Brumark (GAC Niue): (08:57) Yes! And you?
Olga Cavalli - GAC Argentina: (08:57) good but having a cold :(
Leon Sanchez: (08:57) Hello everyone
Olga Cavalli - GAC Argentina: (08:57) hola Leon
Pär Brumark (GAC Niue): (08:57) :-(
Athina Fragkouli (ASO): (08:59) hello all
Rudi daniel: (09:08) hello all
Malcolm Hutty: (09:08) hi athina
Jan Scholte: (09:08) We may also want to look at the recent GNSO Review by Westlake Governance which highlighted diversity issues.
Farzaneh Badii: (09:08) I dont hear well
Farzaneh Badii: (09:09) it's like someone is whispering
Adam Peake: (09:09) Cheryl, you line is quite queit today
Adam Peake: (09:09) (quiet even)
CLO: (09:10) I will adjust my position...
Alan Greenberg: (09:14) Sorry, 24 page report...
CLO: (09:14) I had offered to join two of Yvette deb groups at the end of our last call...
Sébastien (ALAC): (09:15) Diversity - https://community.icann.org/display/acctcrosscomm/DiversitySO/AC accountability - https://community.icann.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=53783727Staff accountability - https://community.icann.org/display/acctcrosscomm/Staff+accountability
Rudi daniel: (09:16) just 2 sub groups?
Rudi daniel: (09:16) ok
CLO: (09:17) should read two of the Sub groups... specifically SO/AC andiversdityd
CLO: (09:17) grrr diversity
Greg Shatan: (09:17) and who is Yvette??
Greg Shatan: (09:19) I will volunteer for SO/AC Accountability
Alan Greenberg: (09:21) The address for the SO/AC Acct is https://community.icann.org/x/r6w0Aw
Greg Shatan: (09:23) Thank you, Alan. I have added my name.
arasteh: (09:25) Dear Brenda
arasteh: (09:25) I am now avilable
Brenda Brewer: (09:25) Hi Kavouss
Brenda Brewer: (09:25) regular number or the same number used yesterday?
arasteh: (09:26) Can the operator call me on the same number that was used for CCWG Call
Brenda Brewer: (09:26) yes..thanks
arasteh: (09:26) I do not remember that
Brenda Brewer: (09:26) I have it.
CLO: (09:27) indeed it is Jan
Pär Brumark (GAC Niue): (09:27) +1 Jan!
arasteh: (09:28) BREDA
arasteh: (09:28) tks
Brenda Brewer: (09:28) You're welcome.
arasteh: (09:29) Hi everybody
Leon Sanchez: (09:29) Welcome Kavouss
CLO: (09:29) agree @alan
Athina Fragkouli (ASO): (09:31) I also agree with Alan
Farzaneh Badii: (09:31) so we need accountability mechanisms for SO/ACs
Farzaneh Badii: (09:31) and I think we have some in place already
Farzaneh Badii: (09:32) constituencies can highlight how they ensure accountability
Alan Greenberg: (09:32) @Jan, yes, it IS urgent, and it is possible that transition does not happen for that reason.. Ther eis an old adage about reaping what we sow. But i do beleive that be setting threshholds sufficiently high, we can make this work.
CLO: (09:33) but we can ensure that we get firm commitment to undertake the specific work required to address these matters in WS2
Farzaneh Badii: (09:34) I don't think we have to come up with new accountability mechanisms. I think constituencies have some in place. Also I agree that this is something to be discussed later. but still we can highlight the already in place mechanisms ( if there are any)
Athina Fragkouli (ASO): (09:34) @CLO: this would be a good solution. I support it
Adam Peake: (09:39) The problem statement document addresses some relevant issues and might be reviewed by the group.
Adam Peake: (09:42) Could accounrability be added as an issue in the organizational reviews, but that does not answer the immediate issues
Farzaneh Badii: (09:42) I missed the first point
Malcolm Hutty: (09:42) @CLO, @Farzaneh: agree with both of your last points
Farzaneh Badii: (09:43) but we have to first examine the already existing mechanisms. I dont know about the priority of the issue though. we cant just assume there are no accountability mechanism
arasteh: (09:44) Alan+1
Pär Brumark (GAC Niue): (09:45) +1Alan
arasteh: (09:45) Governments in fact has wider representation
Jonathan Zuck (IPC): (09:46) of course an intention to represent "the rest of the world" is not the same a representing it.
Alan Greenberg: (09:46) @Jonathan. Of course. But better than ignoring the rest altogether.
Alan Greenberg: (09:47) In my opinion, in any case.
Olga Cavalli - GAC Argentina: (09:47) yes
Greg Shatan: (09:48) Call is Friday at 0600 UTC. :-(
Olga Cavalli - GAC Argentina: (09:49) uh 6 utc is 3 am for me :(
arasteh: (09:49) Dear Brenda
Jonathan Zuck (IPC): (09:50) I agree Alan but it's complicated. There's always been a tension between business and consumer groups as to who knows and is more accountable to actual consumers.
Brenda Brewer: (09:50) Staff Calendar Invites are accurate
arasteh: (09:50) for future meeting pls ck my availability as I am outside my home country
Alan Greenberg: (09:50) https://community.icann.org/display/acctcrosscomm/Meetings should be the definitive list
Brenda Brewer: (09:51) Correct Alan!
Seun Ojedeji: (09:52) @Arasteh are you saying that to avoid dialing out to you?
Greg Shatan: (09:53) I'm not sure that anyone's availability is checked, other than to avoid conflicts with other CCWG calls. I suppose I am "available" at 2 am Friday morning, but I normally would not consider myself to be "open for business."
Seun Ojedeji: (09:54) My thought @Greg i don't think availability is checked, i think a specific time is agreed upon and becomes default.
Sébastien (ALAC): (09:54) Seesm that the schedule prposed during our last call (in the PPT) was changed.
Seun Ojedeji: (09:56) So is it confirmed that the meetings we hold weekly at this time?
CLO: (09:56) all good from me thanks Leon
CLO: (09:57) bye for now then...bye
Seun Ojedeji: (09:57) Apologies in advance for the friday meeting @6UTC as i will not be available...that time will generally not work for me
Jan Scholte: (09:57) many thanks Leon
Jonathan Zuck (IPC): (09:57) Thanks Leon
Pär Brumark (GAC Niue): (09:57) Thx all! Bye!
Athina Fragkouli (ASO): (09:57) thank you
Greg Shatan: (09:57) Bye all.
Seun Ojedeji: (09:57) bye
Izumi Okutani (ASO): (09:57) thanks bye