Sub-Group Members: Becky Burr, Bruce Tonkin, Carlos Raul Gutierrez, David Maher, David McAuley, Edward Morris, Gary Campbell, Greg Shatan, Jeff Neuman, Jorge Villa, Keith Drazek, Laena Rahim, Markus Kummer, Pedro Ivo Silva, Robin Gross, Samantha Eisner, Stephanie Duchesneau, Steve DelBianco (18)
Staff: Adam Peake, Alice Jansen, Brenda Brewer, Berry Cobb, Jim Trengrove
**Please let Brenda know if your name has been left off the list (attendees or apologies).**
The Adobe Connect recording is available here: https://icann.adobeconnect.com/p90e69gv213/
The audio recording is available here: http://audio.icann.org/gnso/gnso-wp2-05mar15-en.mp3
WP2 call #3 - 5 February 2015
This call is being recording
WP2 documents -
Call for volunteers to join the work groups. Please email <firstname.lastname@example.org> Anyone who has volunteered and not listed in the paper, please let staff know.
There will be an email list for each of the following new sub-groups.
• Community compact group: statement of completeness and questions by next weeks call
• Ombudsman: task, enhancements to current ombudsman function
• Request for reconsideration: Community view as an important improvement.
• Independent review reconsideration:
Items under the section "New Mechanisms", and new powers regarding the ICANN Ombudsman all moved to WP1. Jordan has been told who the volunteers for each were.
Intention is for the descriptions of the enhancements and issues arising will be prepared so we can have a substantive discussion in Istanbul
Drafting should be complete by 19 March so the whole group can prepare for Istanbul (travel)
David Maher, lead: community compact group
Ed Morris, lead, Ombudsman
Becky Burr, lead, request for reconsideration
Robin Gross, lead independent review reconsideration
ICANN technical mission work stream has moved from WP1 to WP2. Keith Drazek will continue to lead
Steve DelBianco: issues for stress test. 4 refer to what happens if ICANN tried to exceed its limited technical mandate. Responses are either proscriptive or restraining. Independent review will need to refer to a standard against which to decide if ICANN has exceeded its mandate. The review process may be the strongest mechanism CCWG creates. Will share the 4 relevant stress tests.
Noted concern if the community could expand ICANN's mandate by consensus.
Suggestion that certain aspects should be frozen in the bylaws, with great care to allow for evolution, but to cast core principles in stone.
Mission statement. The list of commitments reflect the list found in ICANN's missions, bylaws, AoC and ideas suggested in CCWG. But the list should be finite enough to allow the organization to operate, but enough to make our expectations of organization clear.
No attempt being made by WP2 to redefine ICANN mission and core values. But to capture the values in a more comprehensive way. So ICANN's behavior can be measured against it.
Advisors, the articles of incorporation are limited in scope. The state requires ICANN to maintain these documents, believe they have not been changed to date. Some matters to do with the structure of the organizations, such as membership, might require a modification.
Constraining the purpose of the organization in the articles of incorporation may worth looking at and protecting.
Concern about possible limitation in the text about the consensus policies - ongoing for the group
Staff: mailing lists for the 4 sub-working groups
Keith Drazek: will begin a cross-reference of the Mission/Values/Powers and
All groups/volunteers: drafting should be complete by 19 March
Becky Burr: to check leadership of the 4 sub-groups correct and agreed by the individuals concerned
- Staff: mailing lists for the 4 sub-working groups
- Keith Drazek: will begin a cross-reference of the Mission/Values/Powers and the Articles
- All groups/volunteers: drafting should be complete by 19 March
- Becky Burr: to check leadership of the 4 sub-groups correct and agreed by the individuals concerned
Becky Burr: (3/5/2015 13:58) alice, this is the wrong chart. i sent an updated chart around yesterday
Becky Burr: (13:58) whoops, i just see that i didn't send it. over to you now
Brenda Brewer: (14:00) Getting your updated chart now Becky.
Becky Burr: (14:02) thanks Brenda
Brenda Brewer: (14:03) No need to call back in Becky
Steve DelBianco [GNSO - CSG]: (14:04) I'll bet Becky has her Adobe Connect speakers ON
Brenda Brewer: (14:04) you need to mute speaker on AC
Steve DelBianco [GNSO - CSG]: (14:04) Just mute your Adobe speaker Becky
Brenda Brewer: (14:04) turn the volume down on Adobe
Becky Burr: (14:04) no volume at all in adobe. on a phone
Brenda Brewer: (14:05) we willhear you through phone. that works. I hear you.
Edward Morris: (14:10) hi Becky. I've volunteered for Recon as well. Please add.
David McAuley: (14:18) yes - having mic problems
David McAuley: (14:19) i can but out of touch tomorro to monday am
Robin Gross [GNSO - NCSG]: (14:19) sure
David McAuley: (14:22) I can make calls to others but will have no access
Carlos Raul Gutierrez: (14:22) Im on the computer now
Steve DelBianco: (14:23) I'll check on that and send right away
Steve DelBianco: (14:23) My microphone not working in Adobe
Brenda Brewer: (14:23) try now steve
Steve DelBianco: (14:24) proscriptive measures are distinct from remedies AFTER the board makes a decision.
Carlos Raul Gutierrez: (14:24) Brenda: I´m on my computer now. Will hang up
Carlos Raul Gutierrez: (14:24) no need to call me back
Steve DelBianco: (14:24) Adobe Mic not working. SOrry!
Steve DelBianco: (14:24) dialing in now
Carlos Raul Gutierrez: (14:25) silent, but present!!!! :?
Steve DelBianco: (14:26) I have audio and Mic now, Becky
David McAuley: (14:26) i do as well
Robin Gross [GNSO - NCSG]: (14:30) yes, we need to be able to restrain the community from expanding the organization's mission
Markus Kummer: (14:35) @ Steve: I agree -- we need belts and suspenders!
Steve DelBianco: (14:35) @Markus -- I understnad most Swiss Men actually do wear belts AND suspenders!
Steve DelBianco: (14:36) Just kidding
Robin Gross [GNSO - NCSG]: (14:37) Perhaps we can't have an absolute ability to prevent mission creep (bylaws can be changed), but we can make it difficult to make those changes. So it is degrees of constraint if we can't have absolute constraints.
Markus Kummer: (14:38) @Robin: that's the point - make it almost impossible to change core changes!
Keith Drazek: (14:38) The MIssion Statement in the current bylaws also refers to Values and Powers that are important to consider in this discussion.
Steve DelBianco: (14:43) ARTICLES OF INCORPORATION
Samantha Eisner: (14:43) https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/governance/articles-en
Adam Peake: (14:44) Steve, aplogies, we don't have Stress Test 16 to hand
Steve DelBianco: (14:44) we're past that now
Becky Burr: (14:47) could you put the mission/compact language back up?
Brenda Brewer: (14:47) yes
Keith Drazek: (14:47) Thanks to Samantha and Greg for this helpful context.
David Maher (GNSO - RySG): (14:48) The articles may be amended by 2/3 vote of the directors
Brenda Brewer: (14:50) The Stress Test 16 is available: https://community.icann.org/display/acctcrosscomm/ST-WP+Draft+Documents
Markus Kummer: (14:52) The example I mentioned of the Swiss Association also provides for the possibility of amending the artciles with a 2/3 majority with the exemption of some articles that are intangible.
Keith Drazek: (14:52) Markus, was that a 2/3 majority of members or directors?
Markus Kummer: (14:53) It is a membership association and would need a 2/3 majority of all members. Bit the point is that some articles are intangible!
Keith Drazek: (14:54) Yes agreed.
Greg Shatan: (14:54) Sam you broke up there
Keith Drazek: (14:55) Becky, I will begin a cross-reference of the Mission/Values/Powers and the Articles.
Becky Burr: (14:59) thank you Keith
Steve DelBianco: (14:59) and there is also IPLEMENTATION of policy, where the community may believe that management failed to implement or went too far. Thats why we need community power to challenge board/management action
Bruce Tonkin: (15:00) I think Samanatha covered the point on types of polciies fairly well.
Samantha Eisner: (15:01) Becky, maybe we're discussing a difference in interpretation regarding the word 'COnsensus Policy" in the contract and then policies developed by consensus?
Bruce Tonkin: (15:01) I think there are really two braod types of policies at ICANN. One affects what registries and registrars must do - e.g transfers policy and WHOPIS policy, and the other type is policies that predominately staff must follow - e.g a meetings policy or travel policy etc. I think the community can create policies in eitehr area via cosnensus and the Board approves them.
Keith Drazek: (15:01) There's a very clear process in place for developing consensus policies, which establishes a level of accountability. Non-consensus policy development may have lower levels of predictability and therefore potentially less accountability. And yes, the implementation issue is a whole other kettle of fish.
Bruce Tonkin: (15:02) The new gTLD policy is a bit of a hybrid. It places no obligations on existing registrars and registries on anyything they must do - but if you are a new registreis - then you obviously have to follow the new gTLD policies.
Samantha Eisner: (15:02) Bruce, yes, there are a range of operational policies as well
Bruce Tonkin: (15:02) Becky is right ta the term with capitals "COnsensus Policies" relates has to be considered in context of the discussion.
Carlos Raul Gutierrez: (15:02) thnak you
Keith Drazek: (15:02) Thanks Becky
Adam Peake: (15:02) thank you
David McAuley: (15:02) thanks
Robin Gross [GNSO - NCSG]: (15:02) Thanks, Becky, and All!
Markus Kummer: (15:02) Thanks and good.-bye!
Becky Burr: (15:02) agree, more discussion needed
Pedro Ivo Silva [GAC Brasil]: (15:03) good night. Bye