Petya Minkova:good evening from Brussels
Alain Bidron:Hi Petya, Renate, sorry I am a bit early ;-)
Renate De Wulf:Not a problem!
Marilia Maciel:on mobile with little battery. i commit to the drafting i volunteered last week.
Marilia Maciel:this week we were all overwhelmed or traveling i think
Avri Doria:not that i intend to speak, but i don't seem to have voice working.
Avri Doria:my issue is personal
Hago Dafalla:Hi all
Hago Dafalla:Please try to call me if possible.my phone is +249922382627
Petya Minkova:@ Hago : i will inform adigo now
Hago Dafalla:ok thanks
Petya Minkova:dialing
Olivier Crepin-Leblond:https://community.icann.org/display/CPMMB/Cross-community+WG+Contribution+Draft
Cintra Sooknanan:I have not posted to the wiki
Cintra Sooknanan:we are still working internally on the bottom up vs top down def
Cintra Sooknanan:we have started!
Olivier Crepin-Leblond:http://content.netmundial.br/
Marilia Maciel:limit will go updates
Marilia Maciel:it was decided yesterday um emc
Marilia Maciel:4 pages aprox
Marilia Maciel:according to net mundial secretariat
Cintra Sooknanan:does this mean we should limit our submissions to 1000 chars?
Sarah Falvey - CRR/Google:so 10,000 words is about 20 pages
Stephanie Perrin:one way around the character restriction, which seems excessive, would be to send multiple submissions divided into narrow topics?
Cintra Sooknanan:or to link to the wiki page report?
Greg Shatan:It has appeared.
Kristina Rosette:lots of acronyms :-)
Philip Corwin:Sarah, he said 10,000 characters -- that's a lot fewer words -- my ballpark guess is maybe 1500 including spaces
Marilia Maciel:the justification for the limit is the little time to process contributions. i think we should try as much as possible to be concise :)
Sarah Falvey - CRR/Google:Yeah my bad...I thought that seemed really long!
Philip Corwin:My favorite new ICANN acronym is GAG ;-)
Stephanie Perrin:So lets say 6 pages...gives us enough spaces to state high level principles and high level arguments as to how ICANN meets governance goals and objectives better than other models. Problem being, governance objectives may not necessarily be spelled out and defined, let alone agreed...please let me know if I have missed a key document
Marilia Maciel:stephanie contributions about principles and ecosystem are submitted separately
Stephanie Perrin:I@Marilia, even better. I like ethe link idea, that would ably support the high level principle approach ....we could link to the fully embellished arguments
Marilia Maciel:so now 4 pages for each. BUT. the limit will go up. thiswas decided yesterday by EMC
Kristina Rosette:format seems fine to me, but suggest we limit significantly the "background" information
Stephanie Perrin:Do we even need an introduction?
Marilia Maciel:i honestly dont know how they will deal with external references. it may enviem imposwible to summarize
Philip Corwin:That was a ballpark guess -- depends on the mix of long versus short words
Stephanie Perrin:We could send the technical arguments in through the technical folks....and the civil society arguments through civil society, etc.. Might as well capitalize on the much noted agreement we achieved yesterday :-)
Marilia Maciel:yes separate contributions may be better than internal links
Avri Doria:icann is a very big mystery for many in here.
Avri Doria:not just 'out there'
Philip Corwin:I think it is a good idea to break the overall piece into seoarate contributions
Stephanie Perrin:Need a link to a primer on ICANN, you cannot waste argument space on bringing folks up to speed, but I certainly concur that this has to addressed.
Stephanie Perrin:are we going to express views on INternet governance writ large, or confine ourselves to ICANN?
Cintra Sooknanan:I agree with that approach Olivier, the background info should be linked by a wiki
Kristina Rosette:Hasn't ICANN already created a primer on ICANN?
Greg Shatan:I just did a character count on a 5 1/2 page single-spaced memo. With spaces it was over 16000 characters and 2650 words.
Marilia Maciel: agree with Stephanie.
Marilia Maciel:the limit of characters will go up. the secretariat of net mundial will publish new numbers in the website soon
Olivier Crepin-Leblond:Thanks Marilia
Philip Corwin:The best defense is a good offense -- I disagree with concept of focusing on defense of ICANN. Suggest instead a mix of that, ideas for improving ICANN, and some vision of where that improved ICANN sits within an evolved IG ecosystem.
Greg Shatan:1632 words equaled 10,050 characters with spaces. This is a little over 3 (three!) pages single spaced,
Avri Doria:We have to ask ourselves to what extent we want to defend ICANN as it is currently configured.
Stephanie Perrin:I agree with what Marilyn is saying, and without sounding like a Barbie doll saying "math is hard", we do need to indicate the complexity and the inter-retaionships. And possibly some of the really difficult policy problems that any system is going to have to grapple with.
Avri Doria:Can we use the Brazil and other meetings to put pressure on ICANn to fix that which is broken.
Kristina Rosette:Support (a) combining approaches suggested by Phil and Avri: (b) using separate submissions; and (c) to extent possible, avoid recreating the wheel (in terms of "background")
Stephanie Perrin:Agree with Avri, but if we come up with a statement of what ICANN hope to be, or how it represents itself, it provides a platform for saying what about it, lets make sure multistakeholderism actually works (is global, is comprensive, takes account of economic realities, etc etc)
Marilia Maciel:not sureabout the focus of the ecosystem question
Marilia Maciel:could we try to clarify?
Avri Doria:The problem is that it gets hard to hold the current incarnation of ICANN up as genuinely multistakeholder.
Avri Doria:ad one thing we should not do is defend the indefensible
Kristina Rosette:@Avri: I don't disagree, but I think we have to be careful that we don't create an opportunity for others to say "Look, even the active ICANN community members believe it's failing and a new model is needed."
Stephanie Perrin:@Olivier, on the subject of not knowing what is going on, we just got the invitation to the high level multistakeholder meeting in Barcelona next Monday. Too late for anyone to travel cheaply from here, and no other documentation other than the agenda. It is difficult for me to imagine how I can be useful....but of course will be dialing in and giving it a go....
Avri Doria:Kristina, yeah, but. If it is being usurped, then we really need to be honest about it. It is a tough problem. Is there anything that makes us beleive we can fix it it?
Avri Doria:if we defend the indefensible, we lose our own credibility.
Sarah Falvey - CRR/Google:is it possible that one of the strategy panels is also tackling this issue
Avri Doria:it is a delicate balance.
Marilia Maciel:the focus is not icann itself but its links with externals. how to improve that? imo
Sarah Falvey - CRR/Google:and so we can possibly use their work to inform our work so as not to reinvent the wheel
Stephanie Perrin:This is one of the things that I think we should bring out under complexity. OBviously, those of us donating time here think it is worth it and think we can make a difference. The pace of change and growth needs to be noted. But I agree that, given the somewhat extravagant rhetoric abounding these days, one has to be very careful how to express criitism. AS a former bureaucrat, I may be expressing cauttion that comes from how the political level responds to communications in such situations...but I dont think ICANN is much different. High level of risk.
Marilia Maciel:it is suggestion
Marilia Maciel:guiding contributions
Avri Doria:prhaps we should focu on normative principles of how things should work and not on descriptions of how the ICANn model is being gutted.
Cintra Sooknanan:Olivier is breaking up on my end
Stephanie Perrin:@Avri...that was what I thought in my original proposal, principles of how it works then how ICANN is trying to make it work (which gives room for noting gaps)
Stephanie Perrin:@Olivier just a note, the invitation arrived I think on the 15th, not today, but still not enough time....
Avri Doria:Stepaine, i was just slow getting there.
Avri Doria:the problem is new gaps are being introduced weekely by BoardStaff.
Avri Doria:As I go into a week of enhanced Cooperation meetings, I am again worried about how one argues that ICANN is on the right path.
Kristina Rosette:With apologies, I have to drop for another call.
Olivier Crepin-Leblond:Thanks Kristina
Stephanie Perrin:@avri...yes and as a somewhat parachuted-in member of the EWG, I am sensitive to how disruptive these things are. But any new body would be like a landoffice free-for-all.....think Dawson City. possibly not an analogy that would be useful in the report.
Philip Corwin:I like the Town hall concept that Marilyn suggested
Marilia Maciel:thanks. bye
