Zoom chat: 2022-01-19 At-Large Consolidated Policy Working Group (CPWG)

15:34:56 From Yeşim Saglam - ICANN Org to Everyone:
Welcome to At-Large Consolidated Policy Working Group (CPWG) Call taking place on Wednesday, 19 January 2022 at 13:00 UTC.
15:35:09 From Yeşim Saglam - ICANN Org to Everyone:
Agenda: https://community.icann.org/x/etMGCw
15:59:15 From Evin Erdogdu - ICANN Org to Everyone:
Hello all, welcome 
16:01:27 From Amrita Choudhury to Everyone:
Hi All
16:01:57 From Michael Palage to Everyone:
Jonathan do we have some Jeopardy music to listen to while we wait :-)
16:03:47 From Jonathan Zuck to Everyone:
@Michael, Jeopardy might be too ironic as score for waiting on Olivier in Turkey...
16:06:59 From Yeşim Saglam - ICANN Org to Everyone:
RTT Link: https://www.streamtext.net/player?event=ICANN
16:07:10 From Herb Waye to Everyone:
Greetings from the Office of the Ombuds… hope everyone is doing well.
16:08:21 From Gopal Tadepalli to Everyone:
Greetings. I am sorry for leaving in the next five to ten minutes. - Dr. T V Gopal, Professor, Department of Computer Science and Engineering, College of Engineering, Guindy Campus, Anna University , Chennai, INDIA.
16:09:23 From Evin Erdogdu - ICANN Org to Everyone:
Thank you and updated under AOB, Justine
16:09:34 From Justine Chew to Everyone:
1. SSAD ODP: The next GNSO Council and ICANN Board Consultation on SSAD ODP scheduled for 27 January 2021 at 21:00 UTC for 60 mins, is open to observers. Pre-registration required at https://icann.zoom.us/webinar/register/WN_XJ4k_qM0TfOdTsTkMbqOwQ 2. ALAC-GNSO session at ICANN73: Suggestions on discussion topics welcomed.
16:10:20 From John McCormac - HosterStats.com to Everyone:
Will the Accuracy Scoping Q/A be covered?
16:11:33 From Evin Erdogdu - ICANN Org to Everyone:
Bless you!!
16:12:49 From Michael Palage to Everyone:
@Jonathan - Allergies to the Multi-Stakeholder Process - need to check that out with your doctor :-) Know treatment - face to face meetings
16:14:32 From Roberto Gaetano to Everyone:
@Michael - vicious circle - no F2F meetings until çJZ is coughing :-)
16:14:52 From Alfredo Calderon (ICANN73 Mentor) to Everyone:
@Jonathan, if your at the West Coast, weather transition from East to West, and early morning contributes to increase allergies.
16:16:29 From Justine Chew to Everyone:
+1 Jonathan
16:17:08 From John McCormac - HosterStats.com to Everyone:
@JZ Should I be worried about wearing out more keyboards? :) It is a completely different market to that when the CCT was in progress.
16:18:40 From John McCormac - HosterStats.com to Everyone:
@JZ Most recs were fine.
16:19:14 From Gopal Tadepalli to Everyone:
@Justine: Thank you. I registered for the 27 January webinar. - Dr. T V Gopal, Anna University, Chennai, INDIA.
16:19:21 From Evin Erdogdu - ICANN Org to Everyone:
Quick (but long) link to the presentation on the workspace: https://community.icann.org/display/alacpolicydev/At-Large+Workspace%3A+ALAC+Responses+to+ICANN+Board+Clarifying+Questions%3A+ALAC+Advice+on+Subsequent+Procedures?preview=/184996169/184996171/20211209v1%20SubPro%20Board%20Questions%20ppt%20for%20CPWG%2015Dec2021.pdf
16:19:25 From Steinar Grøtterød to Everyone:
What is - in our opinion, the showstoppers seen from ALAC, to start the new round in the near future?
16:19:27 From Evin Erdogdu - ICANN Org to Everyone:
(15 Dec)
16:19:52 From Gopal Tadepalli to Everyone:
Thank you. I am leaving now and will catch up on the ICANN Community Wiki. - Dr. T V Gopal, Anna University, Chennai, INDIA
16:20:27 From Evin Erdogdu - ICANN Org to Everyone:
Google Doc (for comment): https://docs.google.com/document/d/11UybkiWqGzV0kZvY8om7ZTTttlx7ULM456ILp8CqsfI/edit?usp=sharing
16:20:48 From John McCormac - HosterStats.com to Everyone:
The risk is that the market is heading into a post-Covid junk drop where a lot of doms regged during Covid by businesses that thought they could go online will be dropped. There's also a kind of splitting effect happening with some new gTLDs that are actually finding a market.
16:20:56 From Justine Chew to Everyone:
"showstoppers" is a strong word @Steiner
16:21:51 From John McCormac - HosterStats.com to Everyone:
One shostopper is NIS2's unintended effect on WHOIS and privacy due to the DNS element (I think that Alac never mentioned this.)
16:23:49 From Alan Greenberg to Everyone:
John, I don't understand this. Which unintended effect and which DNS element? Can you please elaborate?
16:24:41 From Jeffrey Neuman to Everyone:
You all know how I feel. We should not be holding up the industry from innovating simply because there are issues with the legacy TLDs
16:25:06 From John McCormac - HosterStats.com to Everyone:
@Alan The EU seems to want to know everything about the whole DNS chain from rootservers to end DNS even those operated by individuals. That might be difficult where the owner is using WHOIS privacy for the domain name.
16:25:08 From Justine Chew to Everyone:
@Steiner, please see our draft response under Topic 1
16:25:20 From Jeffrey Neuman to Everyone:
All of the problems are with the existing TLDs.
16:26:44 From John McCormac - HosterStats.com to Everyone:
Even with all the aspirations to transparency, some may not comply or use iffy WHOIS data. ICANN Compliance doesn't seem to want to scale to the level of WHOIS compliance necessary to ensure that WHOIS data is valid/accurate. (Based on reading the Q&A posted on the list this morning.) I can understand ICANN Compliance's position on this.
16:26:45 From Alan Greenberg to Everyone:
@John, my understanding is that the applicability to non-public-serving DNS servers has bee eliminated in current versions.
16:26:56 From Jeffrey Neuman to Everyone:
It just seems like a form of policy blackmail. But the ones that are actually hurt are the TLDs that don't even exist yet.
16:27:11 From Jeffrey Neuman to Everyone:
The strategy plays into the incumbents who don't want new TLDs
16:27:16 From John McCormac - HosterStats.com to Everyone:
@Alan I am not sure that the suggested amendments were adopted.
16:28:08 From John McCormac - HosterStats.com to Everyone:
@Alan I tried to find the adopted version of NIS2 but there are some more stages.
16:28:22 From Alan Greenberg to Everyone:
Still ongoing...
16:29:41 From Jeffrey Neuman to Everyone:
Again you are just playing into the hands of the incumbents who have no interest in any new TLDs and therefore are incentivized to drag out any debates.
16:29:53 From John McCormac - HosterStats.com to Everyone:
I think that there are about 2.7 million DNSes in the gTLDs but I haven't broken them down by country/IP yet.
16:30:14 From avri doria to Everyone:
It may be somewhat reflective of having a far greater number of groups and individuals expressing strong reservations that have to worked through.
16:31:13 From Jeffrey Neuman to Everyone:
@Avri - and the fact that we have rewarded those who stick with their strong reservations without any incentive to compromise
16:31:42 From Steinar Grøtterød to Everyone:
What is the “top priority”?
16:31:56 From John McCormac - HosterStats.com to Everyone:
@Jeff Should ring-fenced marketing budgets be part of any new gTLD evaluation?
16:31:58 From Alan Greenberg to Everyone:
@Avri, it is certainly partly attributable to that. Also to our desire for "perfection" (very much something that varies by who is judging!).
16:32:18 From Jeffrey Neuman to Everyone:
Unfortunately not in a position to speak at the moment, but those who insist on solving all problems of the incumbent TLDs are just giving in to the incumbent TLDs and what they actually want
16:32:28 From Alan Greenberg to Everyone:
Also, "entropy" only increases in ICANN.
16:32:30 From John McCormac - HosterStats.com to Everyone:
Many of the NGTs that failed to meet expectations underestimated the amount of marketing required to establish a TLD.
16:32:58 From Jeffrey Neuman to Everyone:
@John - yes, and that is all a GOOD sign of a maturing industry
16:33:18 From Jeffrey Neuman to Everyone:
The only way to learn lessons is to fail and try again
16:34:28 From Evin Erdogdu - ICANN Org to Everyone:
We will do so :) thank you
16:35:07 From John McCormac - HosterStats.com to Everyone:
@Jeff it is a rapidly changing industry and that's what is worrying. By the time ICANN/etc gets around to the new round, the market has changed and the demand may have disappeared. It might be better to compress the timeschedule for applications and launches.
16:35:59 From Alfredo Calderon (ICANN73 Mentor) to Everyone:
Welcome @all ICANN73 Fellows joining the WG and exploring how to contribute with their profesional background to the conversations.
16:36:22 From Allan Magezi ICANN73 Fellow to Everyone:
Thank you Alfredo
16:41:03 From John McCormac - HosterStats.com to Everyone:
@Michael I think that the ROR is present in a lot of gTLDs but it is not really that kind of registrar.
16:41:25 From John McCormac - HosterStats.com to Everyone:
(Stichling Registrar or Last Resort in the ICANN reports)
16:43:46 From John McCormac - HosterStats.com to Everyone:
Many ccTLD registries decided to stop acting as registrars a few years ago due to competition with their registrars.
16:44:51 From hadia Elminiawi to Everyone:
apologies I shall need to leave the meeting now. Bye for today
16:46:34 From Alan Greenberg to Everyone:
There are hands up!
16:47:14 From John McCormac - HosterStats.com to Everyone:
The ccTLD registries will generally work with the registrants but agree on the way that registrants are unware of their rights.
16:48:15 From Jonathan Zuck to Everyone:
It's an interesting thought but it's out of scope for the current effort. We have been focused on the communication between registrar and registrant, not with registry.
16:49:34 From John McCormac - HosterStats.com to Everyone:
The reality is that registration has become commoditized in that web developers often register domain names for their clients and the registrant may not even be aware of the process as long as they keep paying the fees to the web developers.
16:49:51 From Chokri Ben Romdhane to Everyone:
Hi all , I'm sorry for being late but at least I'm with you
16:50:46 From Michael Palage to Everyone:
@John but that kind of goes to my point, the GNSO sets the charter. ALAC, GAC and SSAC only get to weigh in AFTER the charter has been set. The charter was always about how to facilitate the business interest of Registries and Registrars, not expressing the interest of the end user/registrant
16:51:13 From Michael Palage to Everyone:
Sorry last comment was to Jonathan
16:52:11 From John McCormac - HosterStats.com to Everyone:
@Michael About 25% of the market in gTLDs is that of the resellers and endusers as opposed to registrar hosted domain names. It is a bit like the underwater section of an iceberg with the registrars being the only visible part.
16:52:17 From Michael Palage to Everyone:
Look at the SSAD discussion - the GNSO has excluded ALAC, SSAC and GAC from the discussions taking place which has been limited to GNSO Appointee EPDP representatives
16:53:04 From Jonathan Zuck to Everyone:
And so it is
16:53:48 From Chokri Ben Romdhane to Everyone:
@Michael the interest of end users is to pay less and get or transfert DNS in a shorted periode with the secure methods
16:53:59 From John McCormac - HosterStats.com to Everyone:
@Michael That's based on about 95% of the .COM market's hosters categorized and identified. There has to be some way of educating the registrants.
16:54:44 From Chokri Ben Romdhane to Everyone:
I think that the TRP wg is not much worry about this issues!
16:55:43 From Michael Palage to Everyone:
@John McCormac - I am fully aware of the importance of resellers and why I am personally glad that NIS has been expanded in its scope to include the entire eco system.
16:55:53 From John McCormac - HosterStats.com to Everyone:
Has there ever been an analysis of which people/orgs are transferring domain names? (The registrant versus someone acting for the registrant.)
16:57:43 From John McCormac - HosterStats.com to Everyone:
@Michael NIS2 might have gone a bit too far. It was like they hadn't a clue about the DNS chain or the market when formulating the legislation. Those %s are based on actually measuring the registrar and reseller market in gTLDs (and some ccTLDs) each month.
16:59:14 From Jonathan Zuck to Everyone:
As it should be. We just need to ensure that restrictions on scope apply to all parties. Again, this is an issue worth raising but it won't make it into the charter of THIS WG.
16:59:57 From John McCormac - HosterStats.com to Everyone:
@Olivier There's at least 9.22% of .COM on sale at the moment but I don't break down the registrant types.
16:59:59 From Michael Palage to Everyone:
@John McCormac - The folks at DG Connect involved in NIS 2,0 have a clue, and lots of the ICANN community have been trying to educate them.
17:01:13 From John McCormac - HosterStats.com to Everyone:
@Michael There are approx. 511K one hit wonders (hosters with only 1 domain name hosted) in .COM alone. I don't think that these DG Connect people ever quantified the problem.
17:01:38 From Michael Palage to Everyone:
@John McCormac - the last time I check over 70% of European ccTLDs distinguish between Natural and Legal registrants. Unfortunately Alan can speak to why this DID NOT HAPPEN in the EPDP.
17:02:41 From Michael Palage to Everyone:
My apologizes but I must leave early for another meeting - good call and disucssion
17:02:42 From John McCormac - HosterStats.com to Everyone:
@Michael They do. But there's an added twist. A sole trader operates in their own name so a domain name regged by a sole trader is regged in their own name. A bit of a nighmare for the N/L solution.
17:06:56 From John McCormac - HosterStats.com to Everyone:
There are often a few more options for the N/L solution with European ccTLD registries. The .EU, I think has a more simplified version.
17:08:54 From Jeffrey Neuman to Everyone:
When speaking with the members of the SSAC, they agreed with me that they did not intend for us to come up with an actual number (ceiling) for the number of TLD variants that could be delegated at the top level. Rather, we should work on structuring an evaluation process for ICANN to ensure that the Registry will be able to manage the number of TLD variants that they are proposing. "Managing" the TLD variants also includes information about how they will educate registrars and registrants.
17:09:50 From John McCormac - HosterStats.com to Everyone:
@Jeff The best thing that ICANN could do would be to run a survey to see how many endusers/registrants have ever read the registration agreement for their domain name.
17:10:24 From Jeffrey Neuman to Everyone:
@John, you might as well ask them how many of them have read the Zoom license of terms and conditions. Will be the same answer
17:10:31 From John McCormac - HosterStats.com to Everyone:
:)
17:10:48 From Jonathan Zuck to Everyone:
@John, would that number be statistically significant? doesn't seem like a good use of resources to ask that question.
17:11:18 From John McCormac - HosterStats.com to Everyone:
@JZ The ever trustworthy small sample opinion poll should be used?
17:11:25 From avri doria to Everyone:
I think more people read it than might be thought. But what can they do about it?
17:11:28 From Dave.Kissoondoyal to Everyone:
I am sorry for being late
17:11:41 From Jeffrey Neuman to Everyone:
@John - the answer is that few people read any Ts and Cs of anything.
17:11:50 From John McCormac - HosterStats.com to Everyone:
@Jeff True.
17:11:59 From Jonathan Zuck to Everyone:
Indeed
17:12:15 From Jeffrey Neuman to Everyone:
How many people actually read the short ICANN warning that comes up before each call? Would any of you know if that ever changed?
17:13:53 From John McCormac - HosterStats.com to Everyone:
There's a documentary on Netflix (Terms and Conditions Apply) that covers a lot of how people treat T&Cs
17:16:08 From John McCormac - HosterStats.com to Everyone:
@Alan There does seem to be a kind of "other peoples' problem" aspect to ICANN's position with some of those issues. I'm not sure that ICANN Compliance has the staff to deal with dealing with everyone of the issues and it may not be the right organization/party to deal with some of them.
17:20:19 From Jonathan Zuck to Everyone:
and I would like to use a more sophisticated threaded messaging app
17:20:40 From John McCormac - HosterStats.com to Everyone:
A web forum?
17:21:45 From Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond to Everyone:
https://community.icann.org/display/alacpolicydev/At-Large+Policy+Advice+Development+Page
17:21:50 From Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond to Everyone:
You just need to go there
17:24:12 From Evin Erdogdu - ICANN Org to Everyone:
At-Large Policy Advice Development Page: https://community.icann.org/x/bwFO & Consolidated Policy Working Group (CPWG): https://community.icann.org/x/jYDpB
17:24:44 From Satish Babu (Member, ALAC) to Everyone:
Not required...
17:24:53 From John McCormac - HosterStats.com to Everyone:
Is it more a UA issue?
17:25:52 From Evin Erdogdu - ICANN Org to Everyone:
Thanks, noted
17:26:41 From Satish Babu (Member, ALAC) to Everyone:
@John, LGRs are very language-specific, and are best handled by the particular script community.
17:26:50 From Jonathan Zuck to Everyone:
phase
17:26:57 From John McCormac - HosterStats.com to Everyone:
@Satish Agree.
17:27:18 From Evin Erdogdu - ICANN Org to Everyone:
SSAD ODP: The next GNSO Council and ICANN Board Consultation on SSAD ODP scheduled for 27 January 2021 at 21:00 UTC for 60 mins, is open to observers. Pre-registration required at https://icann.zoom.us/webinar/register/WN_XJ4k_qM0TfOdTsTkMbqOwQ
17:27:32 From Jonathan Zuck to Everyone:
It was quite an interesting webinar
17:28:12 From Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond to Everyone:
Operational Design Phase. Interesting….
17:30:45 From Heidi Ullrich - ICANN Org to Everyone:
There is a workspace set up for questions for all sessions at ICANN meetings
17:31:25 From Heidi Ullrich - ICANN Org to Everyone:
See: https://community.icann.org/display/atlarge/At-Large+Questions+for+ICANN73
17:32:47 From Heidi Ullrich - ICANN Org to Everyone:
I’ve added a section for questions for the ALAC/GNSO Council meeting.
17:33:46 From Sivasubramanian M to Everyone:
@Alan... Why "unsuccessfully"? If ALAC has an objection, shouldn't that be automatically forceful?
17:33:55 From Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond to Everyone:
ok I was going to ask that, Heidi
17:35:38 From Alan Greenberg to Everyone:
@Siva, yes, if I ruled the world and ICANN, we would have more clout...
17:36:30 From Amrita Choudhury to Everyone:
Thanks for the updates
17:36:34 From Herb Waye Ombuds to Everyone:
Great to be with you this morning… always informative. Stay safe and be kind
17:36:52 From Satish Babu (Member, ALAC) to Everyone:
Thanks and bye!
17:37:10 From K Mohan Raidu,ISoc India Hyderabad Chapter to Everyone:
can you change the timing please
17:37:32 From K Mohan Raidu,ISoc India Hyderabad Chapter to Everyone:
19.00UTC will be late night
17:37:46 From K Mohan Raidu,ISoc India Hyderabad Chapter to Everyone:
here in India
17:37:49 From Raymond Mamattah to Everyone:
Bye
17:37:50 From Evin Erdogdu - ICANN Org to Everyone:
Thank you all
17:37:51 From Aris Ignacio to Everyone:
thank you very much!
17:37:51 From Dave.Kissoondoyal to Everyone:
Thanks and bye to all
17:37:52 From Alberto Soto to Everyone:
Thanks, bye bye!!
17:37:55 From Allan Magezi ICANN73 Fellow to Everyone:
Thanks bye
17:37:57 From John McCormac - HosterStats.com to Everyone:
later all
17:37:59 From Roberto Gaetano to Everyone:
Bye