Zoom Chat: 2021-08-18 At-Large Consolidated Policy Working Group (CPWG)

07:53:45 From Devan Reed - ICANN Org to Everyone:
Hello All, Welcome to the At-Large Consolidated Policy Working Group (CPWG) Call on Wednesday, 21th July 2021.
07:55:19 From Devan Reed - ICANN Org to Everyone:
Hello All, Welcome to the At-Large Consolidated Policy Working Group (CPWG) Call on Wednesday, 18th July 2021.
07:56:01 From Devan Reed - ICANN Org to Everyone:
Hello All, Welcome to the At-Large Consolidated Policy Working Group (CPWG) Call on Wednesday, 18th August 2021.
07:59:18 From Alaina-Captioner to Everyone:
Good morning! Captions are ready whenever you begin!
07:59:49 From Evin Erdogdu to Everyone:
Hello all, welcome
07:59:58 From Dave Kissoondoyal to Everyone:
Hello everyone
08:00:17 From Priyatosh Jana to Everyone:
hi everyone
08:00:22 From hadia Elminiawi to Everyone:
Thanks
08:00:32 From Priyatosh Jana to Everyone:
greetings from India
08:01:14 From Amrita Choudhury to Everyone:
Hi All
08:01:15 From Satish Babu to Everyone:
Hello everyone...
08:01:24 From Heidi Ullrich to Everyone:
Welcome, All.
08:01:26 From Sarah Kiden to Everyone:
Hi everyone
08:02:54 From hadia Elminiawi to Everyone:
Thanks
08:04:44 From Herb Waye Ombuds to Everyone:
Greetings all.
08:05:11 From Alfredo Calderon (ICANN72 mentor) to Everyone:
Just a note to all. Starting August 20th, ICANN72 Fellows will be encouraged to actively participate in Working Groups based on their interests.
08:05:34 From Jonathan Zuck to Everyone:
That’s great Alfredo
08:07:59 From Matthias M. Hudobnik to Everyone:
Hello all!
08:08:54 From John McCormac - HosterStats.com to Everyone:
@CW Wasn't the GoDaddy article about brand gTLD applications and a preliminary applicant guidebook?
08:10:09 From Sivasubramanian M to Everyone:
@CW What is the Godaddy article that you have mentioned here please?
08:10:53 From John McCormac - HosterStats.com to Everyone:
https://circleid.com/posts/20210809-its-time-for-icann-to-release-a-preliminary-applicant-guidebook
08:11:11 From Sivasubramanian M to Everyone:
Thank you John
08:11:14 From Roberto to Everyone:
Yes we are
08:12:09 From Greg Shatan to Everyone:
It's a helpful reminder to the ALAC. Thank you.
08:14:36 From christopher wilkinson to Everyone:
@Siva - My message to Olivier and Jon was cried to CPWG. You will get it when the ICANN servers have read it!
08:15:21 From Justine Chew to Everyone:
You don't need to tell us twice @SeB
08:15:47 From Sivasubramanian M to Everyone:
@CW It is an important concern that you have raised, about lobbying. Thank you CW
08:15:56 From John McCormac - HosterStats.com to Everyone:
The irony about pushing for more brand gTLDs is that the brand gTLDs have had the highest attrition rate of the 2012 round. Many of them are still unused.
08:16:52 From Jonathan Zuck to Everyone:
Of course @JM, it’s just a money grab by consultants and service providers. Reality doesn’t really enter into it
08:17:33 From John McCormac - HosterStats.com to Everyone:
@JZ More experts. :) Sometimes I wonder if there is a factory somewhere that makes them.
08:18:03 From Lianna Galstyan to Everyone:
Thanks, Satish, nothing to add
08:20:18 From John McCormac - HosterStats.com to Everyone:
Godaddy is also a significant player in the new gTLD market with its recent takeovers. It also has the shelfspace to sell new gTLD domain name on its websites. That could really change things for the new gTLDs as they have been struggling for the last few years.
08:20:23 From Evin Erdogdu to Everyone:
Steinar is an apology today
08:21:07 From Greg Shatan to Everyone:
@John, the last time around, there was a lot of "FOMO-buying" of Brand TLDs (FOMO = "Fear of Missing Out"). It might be different this time. (Emphasis on "might")
08:21:39 From John McCormac - HosterStats.com to Everyone:
@Greg Yep. :) A very different market to the 2021 market.
08:22:22 From Jonathan Zuck to Everyone:
@JM, you think GoDaddy has a chance of changing the market for new gTLDs? Has shelf space really been the issue?
08:23:11 From John McCormac - HosterStats.com to Everyone:
@JZ Yes. It is has significant market presence. (I have a hosting brands report on the market and Godaddy really has depth in markets outside the US.
08:23:24 From Sivasubramanian M to Everyone:
Why is there an emphasis that the losing FOA has to authorize the transfer?
08:23:32 From Raymond Mamattah to Everyone:
Daniel has covered it well. nothing to add pls.
08:23:37 From SNEHA YADAV to Everyone:
Hello Everyone
08:24:41 From John McCormac - HosterStats.com to Everyone:
@JZ The monthly Hosting Brands report. Basically, it is far more than just the US Godaddy registrar and this is done on a domain name/hoster basis. It has about 95% grouping on the main brands in .COM and its only about 4K hosting brands that account for 95% of the .COM
08:25:06 From Jonathan Zuck to Everyone:
So, @JM shouldn’t we wait and see if GD can actually impact the sale of second level domains?
08:25:28 From John McCormac - HosterStats.com to Everyone:
@JZ It already does.
08:26:05 From Jonathan Zuck to Everyone:
On the NEW gTLDs? There’s new life there?
08:26:45 From Olivier Crépin-Leblond to Everyone:
@Siva: because there is concern that a transfer that was not allowed, actually happens unnoticed
08:27:04 From John McCormac - HosterStats.com to Everyone:
Yep. The main problem for most of the NGTs is that they can't get shelfspace on registrars. Many registrars have gone ccTLD-first and the NGTs are only fractions of the markets in various countries.
08:27:29 From John McCormac - HosterStats.com to Everyone:
Godaddy has about 25% of the gTLD market.
08:27:49 From Jonathan Zuck to Everyone:
So @JM, you’ve come to believe it’s an awareness and availability problem, rather than a demand problem?
08:28:16 From John McCormac - HosterStats.com to Everyone:
@JZ all three really but visibility is a major factor.
08:29:18 From Olivier Crépin-Leblond to Everyone:
@John: I thought GoDaddy was more in the 75%+ zone if one includes its affiliates & registrars it owns?
08:30:01 From Lianna Galstyan to Everyone:
Thanks everyone and sorry to leave the call now.
08:30:17 From Justine Chew to Everyone:
I'm dropping off for the IDNs EPDP call.
08:30:18 From John McCormac - HosterStats.com to Everyone:
@Olivier No. around the 25%. The market is a bit more complex than it seems at the hoster level. I've grouped the registrar's hosters as well.
08:30:33 From Sivasubramanian M to Everyone:
@Yrjo Just as there is a proposal for-profit brand TLDs (and a brand round), what if there is a probono proposal for a propono IGO / NGO TLD class, a preferential TLD round, with essential safegurds, such as the IGO's TLD is a single Registrant TLD, non-commerical, and that it needs to pass through a rigid criteria of what is an IGO, what is an eligible NGO, leading to a solution to enable UN to have UN.un, icann to have icann.icann ? This may not solve the IGO / NGO issues in its entirely, but with a probono TLD application fee structure, it might solve some of the security issues.
08:31:26 From Abdulkarim Oloyede to Everyone:
Bye.Have to love now for EPDP on IDn
08:31:52 From Sivasubramanian M to Everyone:
(if it makes sense for microsoft to have microsoft.microsoft, it should also make sense for IGOs and NGOs.
08:31:55 From Sivasubramanian M to Everyone:
)
08:32:40 From John McCormac - HosterStats.com to Everyone:
@Olivier The market is registrars and resellers. The resellers are about 24% of the overall market but some resellers are owned by the registrars.
08:35:30 From John McCormac - HosterStats.com to Everyone:
ICANN has missed a major opportunity to make the registrar accreditation process more accessible so there are hundreds of medium level hosters/resellers who have no path to becoming ICANN accredited at their current hosting levels. Instead they become ccTLD registrars where they operate outside the US. It is a factor in the decline of the non-core legacy gTLDs (non-.COM)
08:36:04 From Jonathan Zuck to Everyone:
I believe out concern with a brand or IGO round is a name grab with impact on communities and geo regions.
08:36:24 From Jonathan Zuck to Everyone:
Our concern
08:37:11 From John McCormac - HosterStats.com to Everyone:
@JZ Some of the geos are being hammered too.
08:37:34 From Jonathan Zuck to Everyone:
Hammered how What do you mean?
08:37:41 From John McCormac - HosterStats.com to Everyone:
The rise of the ccTLds.
08:37:55 From Sivasubramanian M to Everyone:
@John Easing the Registrar Accreditation process can be good, and can also be bad. It actually requires a combination of a) affordability and ease of the accreditation process and b) tougher criteria to determine the accrediation applicant's propensity to comply with standards.
08:38:36 From John McCormac - HosterStats.com to Everyone:
@Siva I think it may be too late for ICANN to do that and it would face push-back from the registrar community.
08:39:19 From Sivasubramanian M to Everyone:
@John It is also pertinent to think of making Resistrars fully accountable for the actions of any Reseller under him, making it necessary for Registrars to "own" the actions of the Registrar's channel
08:39:31 From Yrjo Lansipuro to Everyone:
@Siva: Interesting idea, but up to IGO’s, whether they would like it
08:39:46 From Sivasubramanian M to Everyone:
@Yrjo Just a thought.
08:39:55 From Sivasubramanian M to Everyone:
@ Not yet thought through.
08:40:01 From John McCormac - HosterStats.com to Everyone:
@Siva It might be a good thing. But the legal aspect is going to be complex because resellers have contracts with the registrars rather than the registry.
08:40:17 From Sivasubramanian M to Everyone:
@John Exactly for that reason.
08:40:35 From Matthias M. Hudobnik to Everyone:
Thanks hadia very interesting
08:41:11 From Sivasubramanian M to Everyone:
@John if the resellers have contracts with Registrars, the contracts have to mirror (or percolate down) the same clauses as the Registrar signs with ICANN, on to the Reseller.
08:42:47 From John McCormac - HosterStats.com to Everyone:
@Siva It would create a lot more work for the lawyers and ICANN. The problem is that it is a highly competitive market and registrars may not want to disclose their own resellers for fear of other registrars poaching them,
08:43:15 From Sivasubramanian M to Everyone:
In a scenario where some Registrars deal with Registrants as Resellers rather than as Registrars, with their own Reseller fronts, in some cases, it becomes a convenient way of escaping the clauses.. We didn't do it
08:43:26 From Sivasubramanian M to Everyone:
That was on the previous comment
08:44:37 From John McCormac - HosterStats.com to Everyone:
The ICANN registry-registrar model was great for the 1990s but this is a very different market. There are about 2.9 million C/N/O/B/I/Mobi/Asia doms on around 15K resellers/hosters. (100 to 499 doms hosted).
08:44:54 From Sivasubramanian M to Everyone:
@John, Registrars may not have to disclose their Resellers, but where they have a Reseller, it is, by the norms of accountablity, as if the Reseller's actions are indistinguishable from that of the Registrar
08:45:20 From John McCormac - HosterStats.com to Everyone:
@Siva it is even more complex. Some of the resellers are owned by the registrars but are not accredited registrars in their own right.
08:45:46 From Jonathan Zuck to Everyone:
Yes, I miss them very much
08:45:56 From Sivasubramanian M to Everyone:
@John as for poaching, there is enough understanding among businesses (not just among Registrars in DNS, but in general) that kind of make it a convention not to tread on one another's territtory or channel
08:46:41 From John McCormac - HosterStats.com to Everyone:
@Siva There's the hosting business and there's ICANN's idea of the market. They sometimes coincide but that's quite rare. :)
08:47:02 From Sivasubramanian M to Everyone:
@John as for the complexity, there is always a way of streamlining the complexities. In any case the argument that something is complex so it can't be done is not a valid nor a meritorious argument
08:47:09 From John McCormac - HosterStats.com to Everyone:
It is a very competitive market.
08:47:33 From John McCormac - HosterStats.com to Everyone:
A standard reseller contract from ICANN would be one way of doing it.
08:48:33 From Jonathan Zuck to Everyone:
Thanks @Seb, I get WHY we do it but I think it’s a slippery slope. Ideally, the board would recognize a lack of true consensus and push decisions back to the community, thereby recognizing the issue, without making the substantive decision.
08:49:30 From Roberto to Everyone:
@JMC I am not sure that ICANN would have the authority to enforce a standard Registrar-Reseller contract
08:49:31 From Sivasubramanian M to Everyone:
@John We don't have a situation where we have good enough competition.
08:49:39 From Sivasubramanian M to Everyone:
A standard reseller contract is a very good idea
08:50:34 From John McCormac - HosterStats.com to Everyone:
@Roberto It wold be a standard agreement for registrars that would allow a standardization of the resellers.
08:51:05 From John McCormac - HosterStats.com to Everyone:
Rather than a roll-your-own solution, it would make things easier for registrars and resellers.
08:51:39 From John McCormac - HosterStats.com to Everyone:
The reseller market is approximately 24% in the main gTLDs.
08:51:40 From hadia Elminiawi to Everyone:
the default is natural
08:51:48 From Roberto to Everyone:
@JMC if you make it voluntary for registrars to adhere, fine - what I am saying is that ICANN does not have the authority to make it compulsory
08:52:37 From John McCormac - HosterStats.com to Everyone:
@Roberto The registrars would object straight away to a reseller - ICANN contract.
08:52:43 From Sivasubramanian M to Everyone:
@Roberto What does ICANN have authority to make?
08:53:10 From hadia Elminiawi to Everyone:
Thank you - awaiting your suggestions and additions
08:53:47 From Roberto to Everyone:
Registrars and registries are accredited bodies - resellers are stand alone businesses with no formal relation with ICANN
08:54:27 From Sivasubramanian M to Everyone:
Yes Roberto, Registrars can be asked to comply with the standards related to their channel.
08:54:53 From John McCormac - HosterStats.com to Everyone:
@Roberto. Yes. But a lot of the problems with doms (resellers disappearing) happen with small resellers who are often students setting up a part-time business and then going back to school.
08:54:58 From Sivasubramanian M to Everyone:
By extension, a Registrar would get its Resellers through such agreements.
08:55:56 From Roberto to Everyone:
@JMC I am not suggesting at all to have a reseller - ICANN contract
08:56:35 From John McCormac - HosterStats.com to Everyone:
@Roberto I know. It was just that I was making it clear in case anyone thought I was advocating a reseller-ICANN contract.
08:56:55 From Jonathan Zuck to Everyone:
agree. That many of these are not of interest
08:57:04 From Sivasubramanian M to Everyone:
It can stay as ICANN Registrar contract, with a clause for the Registrar to percolate down the terms of the contract, and own the actions and inactions of those in the channle.
08:57:08 From Sivasubramanian M to Everyone:
channel.
08:57:09 From Jonathan Zuck to Everyone:
That’s OFB
08:57:12 From Jonathan Zuck to Everyone:
yes
08:57:50 From Roberto to Everyone:
@JMC and @Siva I agree with the issues you raise, I am only objecting to one of the proposed solutions - anyway, it’s a complex market, agree
08:58:20 From Evin Erdogdu - ICANN Org to Everyone:
Thank you Olivier and Jonathan, noted
08:58:28 From Sivasubramanian M to Everyone:
@Roberto What is complex needs to be demystified
08:58:39 From Sivasubramanian M to Everyone:
and streamlined
08:59:46 From hadia Elminiawi to Everyone:
I shall need to leave now for the IDN EPDP call
08:59:53 From hadia Elminiawi to Everyone:
thanks and bye for now
08:59:56 From Roberto to Everyone:
@Siva demystify does not mean look for shortcuts - it needs a bit of analysis
09:00:11 From John McCormac - HosterStats.com to Everyone:
What has emerged is a two tier market with ICANN registrars doing the registrations but with a lower tier of resellers. This really didn't exist at the same level in the 1990s.
09:00:21 From Sivasubramanian M to Everyone:
@Roberto indeed. No shortcuts suggested here in any manner
09:00:54 From John McCormac - HosterStats.com to Everyone:
@Roberto I can e-mail you some spreadsheets on the market to show the breakdowns between registrars and resellers.
09:00:59 From Heidi Ullrich to Everyone:
The ALAC Monthly meeting on the 24th will have a brief update on the public comment submission process.
09:01:04 From Evin Erdogdu - ICANN Org to Everyone:
Yes, please do reach out :)
09:01:10 From Heidi Ullrich to Everyone:
Along with an update on the ITI.
09:01:46 From Sivasubramanian M to Everyone:
I wonder what purpoe it serves for Godaddy that has its own Registration website tp appoint a reseller who will have a website to register a domain name for a share in profit. (Stated in simplified terms)
09:02:03 From Sarah Kiden to Everyone:
Thank you
09:02:12 From Sivasubramanian M to Everyone:
It might make sense if the Reseller is geographically organized, witha physical point of contact, with a face.
09:02:16 From Priyatosh Jana to Everyone:
thank you all
09:02:19 From John McCormac - HosterStats.com to Everyone:
@Siva The reseller has their own clients and does its own marketing.
09:02:21 From Amrita Choudhury to Everyone:
Thanks all
09:02:27 From Priyatosh Jana to Everyone:
bye bye
09:02:28 From Heidi Ullrich to Everyone:
Thanks, All.
09:02:29 From Sivasubramanian M to Everyone:
Then GoDaddy can have a hundred thousand resellers
09:02:32 From Evin Erdogdu - ICANN Org to Everyone:
Thank you all, as always! “See” you next week.
09:02:33 From Matthias M. Hudobnik to Everyone:
Thanks bye!
09:02:50 From Roberto to Everyone:
@JMC with the possible exception of CORE, that was at the beginning the registrar - actually, it was even in the testbed - where the members where (at least initially) not accredited - therefore formally resellers
09:02:55 From Sivasubramanian M to Everyone:
(GoDaddy as an example Registrar)
09:03:20 From Herb Waye Ombuds to Everyone:
Take care everyone…. Stay safe and be kind
09:03:22 From Abdeldjalil Bachar Bong_Chad to Everyone:
bye thanks
09:03:26 From John McCormac - HosterStats.com to Everyone:
@Roberto Yep. Everyone was a reseller before the registrars model.
09:03:30 From Alfredo Calderon (ICANN72 mentor) to Everyone:
Stay well and safe!
09:03:31 From Hanan Khatib to Everyone:
thank you
09:03:33 From Evin Erdogdu - ICANN Org to Everyone:
Haha
09:03:36 From John McCormac - HosterStats.com to Everyone:
Later all.
09:03:43 From Greg Shatan to Everyone:
Bye all!
09:03:46 From K Mohan Raidu, ISoc India Hyderabad Chapter to Everyone:
bye bye all