Zoom Chat: 2021-03-23 At-Large Policy Session 2: Reimagining ICANN's Role; Responding to National Pressure

10:24:36 From sergio salinas porto to Everyone : hi everyone!!!!!
10:25:01 From Innocent Adriko to Everyone : Hello everyone!
10:25:06 From Priyatosh Jana_ICANN70 Fellow to Everyone : hi everyone
10:25:15 From Daniel Nanghaka to Everyone : Hello Everyone
10:25:27 From Priyatosh Jana_ICANN70 Fellow to Everyone : greetings from India
10:25:43 From Aris Ignacio to Everyone : Hello and good day to all!
10:27:57 From Seun Ojedeji to Everyone : Greetings from Nigeria
10:28:12 From Joanna Kulesza (ALAC EURALO) to Everyone : Hello everyone!
10:29:25 From Satish Babu to Everyone : Hi everyone!
10:29:47 From Dave Kissoondoyal - ALAC to Everyone : Hello everyone
10:30:53 From Stephen Dakyi to Everyone : Hello All
10:30:58 From Harold Arcos to Everyone : Hi everyone!
10:31:16 From Cédric Leroy to Everyone : Hello there :)
10:32:59 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr to Everyone : hi all
10:33:25 From Michelle DeSmyter - ICANN Org to Everyone : Hello, my name is Michelle DeSmyter and I will be monitoring this chat room. In this role, I am the voice for the remote participants. Please note that I will read aloud comments/questions submitted in English within the time set by the Chair of this session.

When submitting a question or comment that you want me to read out loud on the mic, please start with a <QUESTION> and end with a “</QUESTION>” or <COMMENT> </COMMENT>. Text outside these quotes will be considered as part of “chat” and will not be read out loud on the microphone.

To listen to the interpretation, please click on the interpretation icon in the Zoom toolbar and select the language you will listen to and/or speak during this session.

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10:34:09 From Dave Kissoondoyal - ALAC to Everyone : Welcome our guests
10:35:55 From Gisella Gruber - ICANN Org to Everyone : Wishing everyone a warm welcome to the At-Large Policy Session 2: Reimagining ICANN's Role; Responding to National Pressure.
10:36:25 From Heidi Ullrich to Everyone : Welcome, All.
10:36:42 From Brajesh Jain to Everyone : Good day from Brajesh jain New Delhi India
10:37:13 From Chokri Ben Romdhane to Everyone : hi all
10:39:38 From Gisella Gruber - ICANN Org to Everyone : For Zoom real time transcription, please go under “more”, Show Subtitle
10:41:03 From Judith Hellerstein to Everyone : These transcripts are machine AI transcripts and not the Human ones we often have within At Large
10:41:15 From Judith Hellerstein to Everyone : Plus they only work when the speakers are speaking English
10:50:27 From bertrand de la chapelle to Everyone : apologies but as I mentioned to the organizers, I unfortunately have a conflict for a portion of this session and have to exit now for a while.
10:50:47 From avri doria to Everyone : come back soon, see you Bertrand
10:51:04 From Holly Raiche to Everyone : Thank You Bertrand for your time
10:57:30 From Daniel Nanghaka to Everyone : The Multi Stakeholder model has evolved and transition despite the need to have more inclusiveness in the Multi Stakeholder model
10:57:58 From Michelle DeSmyter - ICANN Org to Everyone : When submitting a question or comment that you want me to read out loud on the mic, please start with a <QUESTION> and end with a “</QUESTION>” or <COMMENT> </COMMENT>. Text outside these quotes will be considered as part of “chat” and will not be read out loud on the microphone.
10:58:10 From Michelle DeSmyter - ICANN Org to Everyone : To listen to the interpretation, please click on the interpretation icon in the Zoom toolbar and select the language you will listen to and/or speak during this session.
10:58:30 From Michelle DeSmyter - ICANN Org to Everyone : If you are unable to access the Interpretation feature please select English on this alternative platform https://crn.interpret.world/loginlink?token=ICANN-ALAC&lang=SRC
11:04:16 From Keith Drazek (Verisign) to Everyone : I should have said "At Large community" and not just "ALAC." Apologies for the common mistake!
11:05:17 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr to Everyone : at least you notice it when made, thanks @Keith ;-)
11:05:39 From Jonathan Zuck to Everyone : Good catch, @Keith. It IS easy to forget there's more than just the 15 members of the ALAC
11:05:54 From Roberto to Everyone : The problem is that the At-Large Community does not have an acronym :-)
11:06:15 From Hadia Elminiawi (ALAC) to Everyone : @Keith we understand what you mean
11:06:22 From Alan Greenberg to Everyone : ALCOM?
11:08:21 From León Felipe Sánchez Ambía to Everyone : Well said Avri
11:08:31 From León Felipe Sánchez Ambía to Everyone : BUMP
11:08:49 From León Felipe Sánchez Ambía to Everyone : That’s what drives us
11:08:57 From León Felipe Sánchez Ambía to Everyone : To serve our community
11:09:20 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr to Everyone : as it should be León
11:09:55 From León Felipe Sánchez Ambía to Everyone : Indeed Cheryl
11:10:19 From Holly Raiche to Everyone : <Question> - Is ICANN’s structured for that kind of open decision making <question>
11:11:04 From Holly Raiche to Everyone : <Comment> There is a CCWG on Governance - enhance the role?<comment>
11:11:15 From León Felipe Sánchez Ambía to Everyone : Yes Keith. And our community is, to me, the best and most reliable warning system. We need ti cooperate and communicate
11:12:29 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr to Everyone : agreed León
11:13:09 From Alexandra Kulikova to Everyone : Within ICANN org this work of early warning has been carried out for a some time now by the GSE and GE teams to inform the management and the community but these efforts could benefit from some joint monitoring with the broader community, if anything - for better geographical coverage
11:13:28 From Dave Kissoondoyal - ALAC to Everyone : This is the beauty of public comments initiated by ICANN in all spheres of the process
11:13:30 From Roberto to Everyone : I am under the impression that the multistakeholder community has worked pretty well so far in providing early warnings - or do I miss cases in which it did not?
11:14:17 From Roberto to Everyone : No special body to provide this early warning, bu the diversity of the community has done the job
11:15:17 From León Felipe Sánchez Ambía to Everyone : Not wrong Roberto. Maybe org and Board didn’t listen in the past (GDPR). We’ve learned and are more aware and receptive I think
11:15:39 From Rick Lane (Iggy Ventures, LLC) to Everyone : As part of the IANA transition, ICANN org is not allowed to lobby.
11:15:47 From Evan Leibovitch to Everyone : Depends on what you consider "early warnings", Roberto. Threats to the technical structure of the DNS (ICANN's good at that) or threats to public trust in the DNS (ICANN is awful at that).
11:16:20 From Rick Lane (Iggy Ventures, LLC) to Everyone : An "educating" policy makers is by definition lobbying
11:17:42 From Evan Leibovitch to Everyone : Disagree. One can provide factual data that informs policy without forcing a direction/
11:17:57 From Roberto to Everyone : @Evan - there is a difference between providing an early warning and acting on it - the latter did not work always
11:17:57 From Jonathan Zuck to Everyone : Well actually, @Rick, "lobbying" is technically about a specific bill before a governmental body...
11:17:58 From León Felipe Sánchez Ambía to Everyone : Agree @Evan
11:17:59 From Rick Lane (Iggy Ventures, LLC) to Everyone : That is what lobbyist do.
11:18:05 From Michelle DeSmyter - ICANN Org to Everyone : A kind reminder when submitting a question or comment that you want me to read out loud on the mic, please start with a <QUESTION> and end with a “</QUESTION>” or <COMMENT> </COMMENT>. Text outside these quotes will be considered as part of “chat” and will not be read out loud on the microphone.
11:19:32 From Alan Greenberg to Everyone : <QUESTION: Keith mentioned we were somewhat taken by surprise by GDPR and Avri has indicated that we are doing a MUCH better job at monitoring things now. I have to wonder whether we should also be looking at whether it has been our in-action that has lead to some legislation, and that is we were more focused on public interest issues, we could avoid having governments make regulations that then impact us. QUESTION>
11:19:45 From Carlton SAMUELS to Everyone : <COMMENT> The original idea was that the At-Large Community had a singular role in monitoring the national space with special focus on end user interests. The disconnect is that most national governments are interested in matters related to the Internet that ICANN was really wary to be seen as having an interest. For example, matters of content and access and privacy and privilege until recently were considered "electrified third rails" and outside the ICANN remit </COMMENT>
11:24:53 From Joanna Kulesza (ALAC EURALO) to Everyone : +1 @Bertrand on silos. Getting the message across is the key challenge here.
11:25:23 From Dave Kissoondoyal - ALAC to Everyone : +1 @Bertrand
11:25:25 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr to Everyone : true that, @Joanna
11:25:52 From Daniel Nanghaka to Everyone : That is absolutely correct @Bertrand
11:25:54 From Holly Raiche to Everyone : Wel
11:25:55 From Roberto to Everyone : It reminds me the story of the blind men and the elephant…
11:27:19 From Fiona Alexander’s iPad to Everyone : @Rick - The IANA transition placed no such restrictions on ICANN. I don’t think what you have suggested is actually possible under US law
11:27:33 From Carlton SAMUELS to Everyone : I sit on national and regional advisory councils and committees. I can tell you that most every issue of interest which peripherally engage the DNS begins with matters of access, affordability, content regulation, privacy and such weighty subjects. The few strains that get into the ICANN channel from the national government perspective are generally via GAC representation; regionally via the CTU and in the national space via national GAC reps. In the Caribbean and in respect of ICANN matters we must dialogue as one Caribbean. Every [ICANN interest] is represented and engaged collaboratively; GAC, At-Large, ccNSO, NCSG.
11:27:50 From León Felipe Sánchez Ambía to Everyone : I have to drop to attend another meetinf
11:27:56 From Dave Kissoondoyal - ALAC to Everyone : @Bertrand, nous avons de très bons souvenirs de vous à l'ICANN
11:27:57 From León Felipe Sánchez Ambía to Everyone : Thanks all
11:27:59 From Roberto to Everyone : As Chair of the former GNSO Review WG I have to agree with Bertrand
11:28:15 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr to Everyone : bye for now León
11:28:41 From Dave Kissoondoyal - ALAC to Everyone : Bye @Leon
11:29:09 From bertrand de la chapelle to Everyone : Thanks @Dave, always happy to hear that :-)
11:29:56 From Evan Leibovitch to Everyone : <QUESTION>ICANN is notorious for insisting that it's not a regulator. It is backed by no multilateral treaty. Its model of stakeholder engagement -- with industry making policy, and governments and the public interest serving as advisors -- is a 180° flip on how most multilateral activity takes place in other sectors. Is ICANN's structure really sustainable given pressure for actual Internet regulation?</QUESTION>
11:31:36 From Evan Leibovitch to Everyone : (BTW, Hi Bertrand and Avri!)
11:33:02 From Gregory Shatan to Everyone : The current GNSO structure is alive. Whether it is well....
11:33:19 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr to Everyone : well noted @Keith worthy changes made so far, but more worthy work to follow...
11:33:26 From bertrand de la chapelle to Everyone : Hi Evan and Carlton, long time no see (let alone meet :-)
11:33:38 From Roberto to Everyone : In the beginning, there were constituencies - and those were institutional silos - now you have also different ways to collaborate
11:33:45 From Jonathan Zuck to Everyone : For SURE!
11:34:22 From Rick Lane (Iggy Ventures, LLC) to Everyone : So would this be lobbying? Issues related to consumer data Issues related to H.R. 133, Consolidated Appropriations Act for Fiscal Year 2021.
11:35:10 From Rick Lane (Iggy Ventures, LLC) to Everyone : comment - So would this be lobbying? Issues related to consumer data Issues related to H.R. 133, Consolidated Appropriations Act for Fiscal Year 2021. - comment
11:36:35 From Evan Leibovitch to Everyone : H.R. 133 means nothing to me, since I don't live in the US. Is ICANN engaging in governance colonialism by forcing American norms on other countries? Is THIS sustainable?
11:36:59 From Keith Drazek (Verisign) to Everyone : I will note that the participation of the European Commission reps from the GAC in the EPDP Phases 1, 2 and 2A have been very helpful vis-à-vis impacts on ICANN policy related to GDPR. That's a perfect example, in my opinion, of how participation in PDP working groups can be very effective.
11:37:22 From Rick Lane (Iggy Ventures, LLC) to Everyone : Filing of an outside ICANN lobbying entity 4th Qtr 2020: https://disclosurespreview.house.gov/ld/ldxmlrelease/2020/Q4/301232645.xml
11:38:13 From Rick Lane (Iggy Ventures, LLC) to Everyone : comment - ICANN dollars going to "lobbying" activities to influence specific legislation. - comment
11:39:31 From Carlton SAMUELS to Everyone : @Keith +1 Broader participation in the policy development should always be encouraged. And we must structure WG and decision-making to valorize those with some equity.
11:40:43 From Rick Lane (Iggy Ventures, LLC) to Everyone : $120,000 lobbying for one outside ICANN consultant in 2020. If an outside ICANN entity is lobbying, it has to be coordinated and approved by ICANN org.
11:41:12 From Rick Lane (Iggy Ventures, LLC) to Everyone : From another ICANN outside lobbying entity: Internet governance; understanding of and support for the multi-stakeholder model; monitoring data privacy reform and budget proposals with respect to WHOIS data; Section 230 responsibilities for online content & activities.
11:42:48 From Rick Lane (Iggy Ventures, LLC) to Everyone : There were several CDA 230 bill introduced in Congress. In addition, the was language in the funding bills that passed Congress included Whois language.
11:43:28 From Evan Leibovitch to Everyone : Sure, I can be Yvan today... :-)
11:44:42 From Holly Raiche to Everyone : As I said, one real upside of COVID is that ICANN silos are having to talk to each other
11:45:18 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr to Everyone : some of our ALSes are deeply engaged with their National Government (and indeed other players in the environment of Internet, Internet Governance and DNS, but it would be interesting to more specifically survey them all on this...
11:45:50 From Daniel Nanghaka to Everyone : COVID has been a challenge of its own and has impacted so much and also affected the various Processes within the community not limited to participation
11:46:11 From Rick Lane (Iggy Ventures, LLC) to Everyone : A total of $320,000 paid by ICANN org to outside lobbying entities in 2020 to influence the US Congress. https://disclosurespreview.house.gov/ld/ldxmlrelease/2020/Q4/301233867.xml. There is no accounting of what ICANN spent on "lobbying" activities in other countries.
11:47:24 From Rick Lane (Iggy Ventures, LLC) to Everyone : Also the lobbying disclosures includes lobbying the US Department of Commerce, not just the US Congress.
11:48:18 From Yrjo Lansipuro to Everyone : @CLO +1 To keep an eye on the plans of the national government and to provide early warning is indeed a valuable role that an ALS can play
11:49:18 From Rick Lane (Iggy Ventures, LLC) to Everyone : BTW: To ICANN org's credit, they contracted with really good lobbyist
11:49:31 From Satish Babu to Everyone : It would be interesting to find out how many of our ALSes have adopted advocacy roles in the recent past...
11:51:32 From Roberto to Everyone : Somebody said that democracy is something that you do not just build, and it’s done - you must keep it alive every day. The multi-stakeholder model is the same, you need to work on it every day.
11:51:34 From Marita Moll to Everyone : @Satish -- Telecommunities Canada, an ALS I have worked with for many years has been engaging with the Canadian government on digital policy for years.
11:52:33 From Marita Moll to Everyone : We are not official lobbyists. We engage in processes where we are able and a process exists. It is a grassroots operation
11:53:24 From Rick Lane (Iggy Ventures, LLC) to Everyone : There is no prohibition on Verisign or any other contracted party to lobby or "educate" to make the points Keith is making
11:53:31 From Abdeldjalil Bachar Bong to Everyone : our ALS HOUSE OF AFRICA is a good partner of Government, we have some joint projects.
11:53:38 From Satish Babu to Everyone : @Marita I'm sure some of our ALSes are playing positive advocacy roles...however, one the whole we have not provided any guidance to the remaining ones on this....something that we should probably think about.
11:54:00 From Evan Leibovitch to Everyone : By the time it gets to early warning, it's too late. Why isn't ICANN consulted -- before the fact -- by national bodies to inform of the consequences of national law/regulations on the stability or effectiveness of the DNS?
11:54:04 From Glenn McKnight, Virtual School of Internet Governance to Everyone : Keith's presentation at the Virtual School of Internet Governance on GNSO policy process https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdIXFBMoaXk
11:54:18 From Evan Leibovitch to Everyone : That's not lobbying, but it could/should be a prime function.
11:54:53 From Michelle DeSmyter - ICANN Org to Everyone : Kind reminder: To listen to the interpretation, please click on the interpretation icon in the Zoom toolbar and select the language you will listen to and/or speak during this session.
11:55:36 From Rick Lane (Iggy Ventures, LLC) to Everyone : The concern is that when ICANN org is "educating" policy makers, they are presenting one side of the issue. DNS Abuse and the Whois issue is a perfect example.
11:55:56 From Evan Leibovitch to Everyone : The English transcription of Seb is wild.
11:56:37 From Judith Hellerstein to Everyone : @evan is it he machine AI trying to do the translation not a human
11:56:56 From Judith Hellerstein to Everyone : Thanks for a great session but I got to leave
11:57:08 From Glenn McKnight, Virtual School of Internet Governance to Everyone : Its beyond machine transcription.
11:57:13 From Evan Leibovitch to Everyone : Then AI has a long way to go :-)
11:57:24 From Rick Lane (Iggy Ventures, LLC) to Everyone : Just look how ICANN org and the contracted parties view their contractual obligations on DNS abuse
11:57:41 From Judith Hellerstein to Everyone : Yes Zoom AI transcription is not that good
11:58:01 From Roberto to Everyone : Actually, the AI is not translating, is just trying to guess what Seb is saying assuming it is English.
11:58:13 From Holly Raiche to Everyone : Great quotes
11:58:26 From Glenn McKnight, Virtual School of Internet Governance to Everyone : Thanks all
11:58:28 From Jonathan Zuck to Everyone : Great discussion, everyone!
11:58:32 From Holly Raiche to Everyone : Well done Hadia
11:58:33 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr to Everyone : Thank you to everyone Organisers, Panelists and audience/chat for a fabulous session... Absolutely excellent, we do ever so need to do more of this...
11:58:39 From Daniel Nanghaka to Everyone : It has been a great discussion
11:58:40 From Evan Leibovitch to Everyone : Great stuff, all.
11:58:43 From Aris Ignacio to Everyone : Thanks a lot for this session.
11:58:48 From Katambi Joan to Everyone : Thanks @Hadia and Team .
11:58:54 From Holly Raiche to Everyone : And thanks particularly to Bertrand, Keith and Avri
11:59:00 From Keolebogile Rantsetse (ICANN 70 Fellow) to Everyone : great discussions. thanks for the informative session
11:59:02 From Chris Buckridge to Everyone : Thank you all for a very interesting and timely discussion!
11:59:06 From Abdeldjalil Bachar Bong to Everyone : great thanks
11:59:12 From Keith Drazek (Verisign) to Everyone : Thanks to At Large for hosting this important session!
11:59:13 From Dave Kissoondoyal - ALAC to Everyone : Great discussions and interesting session.. thanks for the panelists
11:59:15 From J-P Voilleque (ICANNWiki) to Everyone : +1 to all the above thanks and praise
11:59:33 From Maureen Hilyard to Everyone : Excellent session - very much appreciated the contributions made by Avri, Bertrand and Keith. Well done Hadia
11:59:34 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr to Everyone : bye for now
11:59:35 From Marita Moll to Everyone : Interesting and useful discussion. Many thanks
11:59:37 From Daniel Nanghaka to Everyone : Thank you all and Bye
11:59:41 From Satish Babu to Everyone : Thanks and bye!
11:59:42 From Seun Ojedeji to Everyone : thanks Hadia and the panelist
11:59:44 From Seun Ojedeji to Everyone : cheers!
11:59:49 From alberto soto to Everyone : Thanks, bye bye!
11:59:50 From Dave Kissoondoyal - ALAC to Everyone : Thanks and bye to all
11:59:51 From pari esfandiari to Everyone : thank you
11:59:54 From Natalia Filina to Everyone : great interesting discussion, many thanks!
11:59:55 From Roberto to Everyone : Bye
11:59:55 From Heidi Ullrich, ICANN Org to Everyone : Thanks, All
11:59:56 From Tripti Sinha to Everyone : Thank you!
11:59:58 From Innocent Adriko to Everyone : Bye