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Sub-group Members: Anne Aikman-Scalese, Avri Doria, Cheryl Langdon-Orr, Daniel Appelman, David McAuley, Greg Shatan, Griffin Barnett, Harold Arcos, Herb Waye, Janet Shih Hajek,  John Laprise, Jorge Cancio, Kavouss Arastah, Mark Carvell, Markus Kummer, Matthew Shears, Niels ten Oever, Paul McGrady, Rudi Daniel   (19)

Observers/Guests:  Beth Bacon, Javier Rua-Jovet   (2)

Staff:  Brenda Brewer, Elizabeth Andrews, Karen Mulberry, Nathalie Vergnolle, Tristana Webster   (5)

Apologies:  Tatiana Tropina

** If your name is missing from attendance or apology, please send note to acct-staff@icann.org **


Transcript

Recording

Agenda

1. Administrivia

Roll call, absentees, SoIs, etc

2.  Evaluation, or: reculer pour mieux sauter

      a. To what extend does our work entail recommendations for

implementation? If so, how detailed should we be? Is this in our mandate

or remit?

      b. Should we review the FoI in the light of the tension between annex 6

and 12) ?

3. AOB

Notes (including relevant parts of chat):

1. Administrivia

Roll call, absentees, SoIs, etc

·  No updates to SOI noted

·  No questions or comments on draft presented to the Plenary for reading.  Very positive result

·  Working with standard drafting team, wondering if we should take a step back, and discuss our path forward. 

2.  Evaluation, or: reculer pour mieux sauter

      a. To what extend does our work entail recommendations for implementation? If so, how detailed should we be? Is this in our mandate

or remit?

      b. Should we review the FoI in the light of the tension between annex 6 and 12) ?

·  Annex 6: https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/58723827/Annex%2006%20-%20FINAL-Revised.pdf?version=1&modificationDate=1456255586000&api=v2[community.icann.org]

·  Annex 12: https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/58723827/Annex%2012%20-%20FINAL-Revised.pdf?version=1&modificationDate=1456255865000&api=v2[community.icann.org]

· Jorge Cancio (GAC Switzerland): To sum up my thoughts on the pending assignements: with the FoI we have covered everything relevant to the interpretation. What is left are aspects of implementation: 1) what policies and frameworks do we need or do we need to improve; 2) how do we do this in a bottom-up and multistakeholder fashion; 3) how does this interact with existing and future policies and procedures; 4) how does this impact on GAC Advice;  5) what is the effect on ICANN operations. We have to decide how deep and far we can and want to get on these 5 topics...

·  David: I agree that the FoI is done, and we should discuss terms of implementation.

·  Paul: it seems to me that the FoI should be referred to as necessary by ICANN moving forward, and it's not for us to nail all the changes that it could imply.

·  Greg: we are not asked to implement the bylaw, in the ICANN sense of implementation.

· Jorge Cancio (GAC Switzerland): I feel we have to touch on the 5 left issues on a very general level, giving some guidance and recommendations on how we think that ICANN (the corporation and the community) should deal with these topics. Agree with Greg: we do not implement, we just give some guidance on how we think implementation should be tackled considering the 5 pending topics we have according to Annex 6 and 12.

·  Rudi Daniel: agree Greg....on providing signposts as within  the framework of intrepretation.

·  Kavouss Arasteh 4: We have done what we asked to do and there is no more works to be done

·  avri doria: if we have a question about our scope, why dont we go back to the main group for an answer?

·  Anne Aikman: I agree with Avri. 

·  Jorge Cancio (GAC Switzerland): We can go back to the CCWG Plenary with some idea on what we would prefer to do...

·  Greg: I agree we should maybe make recommendations or give options to the plenary on how we'd like to handle this, rather than ask an open question.

·  Niels proposes to draft an email for the CCWG plenary, explaining what we are struggling with and listing several scenarios to move forward.  

·  Anne: would we use the rest of this call to discuss the content of this email?

·  Kavouss Arasteh 4: This group should not be engaed to reconciliating between  annexes 6 and 12

·  Niels: we have 3 options: 1) we are done 2) create a new document with the other elements that we should cover 3) providing examples and adding to the FoI

·  Greg: there is a 4th option: to test the FoI.

·  Anne: we could ask the plenary for examples if we were to pursue option 3).

·  Show of hands: 5-6 Participants agree with this approach. 

3. AOB

Action Items 

  • none

Documents Presented

  • none

Chat Transcript

Yvette Guigneaux:Welcome all to the Human Rights Subgroup Meeting #17  |  Tuesday, 20 December 2016 @ 19:00 UTC!

  Kavouss Arasteh 4:Yalda, which means birth, is a Syriac word imported into the Persian language. It is also referred to as Shab-e Chelleh, a celebration of winter solstice on December 21--the last night of fall and the longest night of the year

  Kavouss Arasteh 4:This is an Iranian / persian tradition

  Brenda Brewer:Kavouss, dial out in progress to you.

  Anne Aikman-Scalese (IPC):Hi Cheryl.  Happy Holidays

  David McAuley (RySG):Hi Brenda, as usual I am 4154

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO):thanks Anne and Seasons Greetings to you and yours

  Brenda Brewer:Thank you, David!!

  David McAuley (RySG):sweet 16

  Jorge Cancio (GAC Switzerland):Hi all

  Javier Rua-Jovet:Happy Holidays to all

  Markus Kummer:Hi everyone

  Rudi Daniel: thx....& seasons greeting to all

  Niels ten Oever:Annex 6: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__community.icann.org_download_attachments_58723827_Annex-252006-2520-2D-2520FINAL-2DRevised.pdf-3Fversion-3D1-26modificationDate-3D1456255586000-26api-3Dv2&d=DgIFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=kbiQDH54980u4nTPfwdloDLY6-6F24x0ArAvhdeDvvc&m=x1Q8MgAF6zyy66pD1V0R1OIrcLIWTSxL9fmbiVpjSas&s=inmvTK1ofgaOU6FRoud_zK-iJIUVZTxZgu7DAifkJ6A&e=

  Jorge Cancio (GAC Switzerland):Hi, fyi: I'm with no usable audio

  Niels ten Oever:Annex 12: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__community.icann.org_download_attachments_58723827_Annex-252012-2520-2D-2520FINAL-2DRevised.pdf-3Fversion-3D1-26modificationDate-3D1456255865000-26api-3Dv2&d=DgIFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=kbiQDH54980u4nTPfwdloDLY6-6F24x0ArAvhdeDvvc&m=x1Q8MgAF6zyy66pD1V0R1OIrcLIWTSxL9fmbiVpjSas&s=C92qfhpqNFCRmdSzGntmi2qoli2sxg7rR9G-SS6FgWs&e=

  Jorge Cancio (GAC Switzerland):active audio I mean (mic)

  Kavouss Arasteh 4:Dear brenda

  Kavouss Arasteh 4:pls advise to dial me up

  Niels ten Oever:Annex 6 p. 5

  Brenda Brewer:Kavouss, I have dialed out to you twice with no response.  Will be happy to try again.  Please stand by.

  Niels ten Oever:Annex 12 p.6

  Kavouss Arasteh 4:Grec is the omni present evey where with long long intervention

  David McAuley (RySG):The “Main Report” is consistent with Annex 06 in this respect: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__community.icann.org_pages_viewpage.action-3FpageId-3D58723827-26preview-3D_58723827_58726532_Main-2520Report-2520-2D-2520FINAL-2DRevised.pdf&d=DgIFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=kbiQDH54980u4nTPfwdloDLY6-6F24x0ArAvhdeDvvc&m=x1Q8MgAF6zyy66pD1V0R1OIrcLIWTSxL9fmbiVpjSas&s=v-G66shvPGZHAKku-B3gxzZ3IYf9UX11ZwkcXH6boMw&e=

  David McAuley (RySG):And Annex 12 is as Greg describes

  Kavouss Arasteh 4:Pls allow others tio also talk

  David McAuley (RySG):Thank you Greg for summarizing that discussion we had yesterday

  Jorge Cancio (GAC Switzerland):To sum up my thoughts on the pending assignements: with the FoI we have covered everything relevant to the interpretation. What is left are aspects of implementation: 1) what policies and frameworks do we need or do we need to improve; 2) how do we do this in a bottom-up and multistakeholder fashion; 3) how does this interact with existing and future policies and procedures; 4) how does this impact on GAC Advice;  5) what is the effect on ICANN operations

  Kavouss Arasteh 4:Dvid thanks GREC AND grec thanks David

  Jorge Cancio (GAC Switzerland):We have to decide how deep and far we can and want to get on these 5 topics...

  Kavouss Arasteh 4:Niels, we should not creat job for ourselves

  avri doria:if we have a question about our scope, dont we go back to the mail group for an answer.  as for Ruggie coming up again in other issues, i though wwe had been barred from discussing that, no matter how useful, important and relvant we thought it was.

  avri doria:... to the main group ...

  Rudi Daniel:I am also wondering what we understand  by the word "framework"....

  Greg Shatan:It helps to look at the two documents.

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO):agree Jorge and therefore separate documentation in, my view

  avri doria:also Greg kept comfusing framework of interpretation and implementation

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO):Yes agree Avri

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO):Greg transposed terms  but a few times in his verbal

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO):update

  avri doria:i think this discussion confuses the two.

  Greg Shatan:I was onlhy intending to refer to the Framework of Interpretation.  There is no Framework of Implementation.

  David McAuley (RySG):good point Paul, maybe examples is better phrasing

  Jorge Cancio (GAC Switzerland):I feel we have to touch on the 5 left issues on a very general level, giving some guidance and recommendations on how we think that ICANN (the corporation and the community) should deal with these topics

  Paul McGrady:Examples at most, I think.

  Jorge Cancio (GAC Switzerland):Agree with Greg: we do not implement, we just give some guidance on how we think implementation should be tackled considering the 5 pending topics we have according to Annex 6 and 12

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO):Guidelines and Recommendations documentation

  avri doria:we can call ourselves done with a hearty pat on our collective backs.

  Rudi Daniel:agree Greg....on providing signposts as within  the framework of intrepretation

  Jorge Cancio (GAC Switzerland):We can go back to the CCWG Plenary with some idea on what we would prefer to do...

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO):next Plenary is when in January?

  Niels ten Oever:Yes

  matthew s:agree we need to have something for the plenary to chew on rather than an existential question

  David McAuley (RySG):i think plenary on Jan 11

  Kavouss Arasteh 4:We have done what we asked to do and there is no more works to be done ,otherwise those professioan Talkers intervene and intervene on some thing which is not requiored

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO):yes Agree Greg. ( and Jorge / Avri)

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO):agree on the pause..  Jan 11 not too far off

  avri doria:i think asking the plenary the existential question of whether this subgroup still have a purpose beyond the second readng of the framewrk and fixes as required is an ok thing to do.

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO):yes Matthew andem Greg we need to give something to the CCWG  to consider not just a 'question:

  avri doria:i favor a minimilist interpretation of this groups charter.

  Greg Shatan:We should see if we have a preference.

  Kavouss Arasteh 4:May we ask people to reduce tgheir no, of intervention to minimum necessary and also the length of intervention shouldc be drastically shortened

  Jorge Cancio (GAC Switzerland):I would keep the distinction between interpretation and everything else as clear and neat as possible

  Kavouss Arasteh 4:This group should not be engaed to reconciliating between  annexes 6 and 12

  Rudi Daniel:agree

  Greg Shatan:Agree with Jorge

  avri doria:i can live with it. depends on what the letter actuay says

  Jorge Cancio (GAC Switzerland):there are 5 Kavouss today :D

  avri doria:as i said, i think we should be done except for FoI edits based on comments from Plenary and beyond.  i do not think we should take up, or offer to take up any other work unless the planary says we must.

  avri doria:i NEVER said you should not speak becasue you were coughing. NEVER.

  avri doria:i said , on another call, anoyone coughing and not speaking should mute their line.

  Greg Shatan:Ironic remarks will be suppressed in order to comply with the Guidelines on Behavior.

  David McAuley (RySG):early holiday gift

  Anne Aikman-Scalese (IPC):No.  Thank you Niels and Happy Holidays!  Anne

  David McAuley (RySG):Thanks Niels, staff and all - happy holidays

  Greg Shatan:Happy Holidays!

  Paul McGrady:Yay!  Happy Winter Holiday of Your Selection, including "none"!

  Jorge Cancio (GAC Switzerland):Thanks and happy holidays!

  Rudi Daniel: ). seasons greetings all

  avri doria:he was slef censoring

  Greg Shatan:I am suppressing my own ironic intervention.

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO):Seasons Greetings to you all

  Paul McGrady:@Greg - ha!

  avri doria:happy silvester

  Markus Kummer:Bye all and happy holidays!

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO):bye for now

  avri doria:yay for Festivus

  Greg Shatan:I've noticed that too, Kavouss.

  David McAuley (RySG):+1 Cheryl

  avri doria:and do not forget the solstice

  Herb Waye Ombuds:Happy holidays all

  David McAuley (RySG):bye

  Jorge Cancio (GAC Switzerland):bye!

  Greg Shatan:Happy Holidays!

  Javier Rua-Jovet:ciao