Maryam Bakoshi:Dear all, welcome to the CCWP on ICANN & HR call on Monday, 17th Aug 2015 at 13:00 UTC
Maryam Bakoshi:Megan Richards & Sara Bockey have joined the meeting
Maryam Bakoshi:Rafik Dammak has joined
Maryam Bakoshi:Niels has joined
Maryam Bakoshi:Matthew SHears and marilia Marciel have joined
Maryam Bakoshi:Tatiana Tropina has joined
Marilia Maciel:Hello all!
Megan Richards, European Commission:much better !
Tatiana Tropina:Hi everyone!
Marilia Maciel:Maybe we can see the agenda on screen?
Niels ten Oever - Article19:1. Short evaluation ICANN2. Works as agreed.1. chart2. legal3. administrivia3. CCWG accountability & human rights4. other issues
Marilia Maciel:Lost audio, Niels
Megan Richards, European Commission:we have lost your voice Niels !
Maryam Bakoshi:Alexandra, Avri Doria, Stephanie Perrin & Farzaneh have joined
Maryam Bakoshi:Niles will rejoin soon
matthew shears:seem to have audio issues
Maryam Bakoshi:We are calling him now
Marilia Maciel:Ok, thanks, Maryam
Maryam Bakoshi:We are working to get Niels back on the line
Niels ten Oever - Article19:yyou lost me?
Niels ten Oever - Article19:aii
Marilia Maciel:Yes, no audio
Maryam Bakoshi:The operator has been trying to call you
Niels ten Oever - Article19:can you call me again?
Niels ten Oever - Article19:I just hung up now
Niels ten Oever - Article19:pls call me again
Niels ten Oever - Article19:where did you lose me?
matthew shears:I am here (I think)
Megan Richards, European Commission:at the beginning !!
Tatiana Tropina:can you hear me?
Niels ten Oever - Article19:No we cannot hear you
Tatiana Tropina:too bad
Maryam Bakoshi:Tatiana do you have a number we can sial out to
Maryam Bakoshi:Amr Elsadr has joined
Maryam Bakoshi:@Tatiana - calling you now
Marilia Maciel:Vacations for you guys, in Europe I think :)
Maryam Bakoshi:Yes Tatiana is on the line
Marilia Maciel:Avri? Matt? :)
matthew shears:I think that the accountabillity proposal is also asking for input from commenters on the issue of human rights in the bylaws in parallel
Megan Richards, European Commission:this is what the report seems to say but perhaps this is evolving: •Work plan for Work Stream 2 to: oEnhance diversity and the culture of transparency within ICANNoFurther address concerns about community accountability. The 2nd Draft Report includes a recommendation for regular structural reviews of SOs and ACs to assess their accountability towards their participants as well as towards the stakeholders they are designed to represent.oElaborate on a Commitment to human rights in the ICANN Bylaws.•Details on an implementation plan for Work Stream 1, including a Bylaws drafting process.
Megan Richards, European Commission:sorry - wrong cut and paste !! apologies
matthew shears:in terms of strategy it will be important for a number of diverse entities to input on this in the publoc consultation - the comment revirew process does not weight the inputs so more inputs on issues of concernsuch as HR is important
Avri Doria:i plan to put in my own comment on the issue.
Avri Doria:both HR related and other.
matthew shears:+ 1
matthew shears:I think we have to leave a lot of this to WS2. If we start to get into the detail the bylaw may get very long and cumbersome
Tatiana Tropina:I think it is better to avoid detailing bylaws in order to avoid long legal debates which can get us to nowhere and delay the changes we want
Tatiana Tropina:*again I don't know how far this discussion went before, may be I am just repeating what has already been discussed many times
Megan Richards, European Commission:perhaps its a problem with the mike - in a nutshell I agree with marilia's comment
Maryam Bakoshi:Hi Megan, please could you provide your number for dial out
Amr Elsadr:@Matt: RE: HRs in WS2, that sounds logical to me, so +1. For now, some form of commitment from the CCWG to include HR issues in WS2 wouldn't be such a bad thing though.
Megan Richards, European Commission:My number is +322 2962443 but marilia said exactly what I was going to say -
Avri Doria:The Corporation shall operate for the benefit of the Internet community as a whole, carrying out its activities in conformity with relevant principles of international law and applicable international conventions and local law and, to the extent appropriate and consistent with these Articles and its Bylaws, through open and transparent processes that enable competition and open entry in Internet-related markets. To this effect, the Corporation shall cooperate as appropriate with relevant international organizations
matthew shears:shame we can't just asterisk the bylaw above after the word conventions and add if need be UDHR and ICCPR
Tatiana Tropina:@Matthew, it's articles of incorporation I think :)
Megan Richards, European Commission:the articles of incorporation cover all
Avri Doria:... coverl all that are relevant ... applicable ... and to the extent apprpproprote consistent with the bylaws.
Tatiana Tropina:Yes, in a general way
Megan Richards, European Commission:the Articles take precedence over the bylaws - the bylaws can limit the application or clarify the specific provisions
Tatiana Tropina:+1 to Megan. I see any changes made to bylaws as clarification of this general commitment
Megan Richards, European Commission:ICANN has agreed to apply the applicable and relevant provisions by virtue of the provisions of its ARticles of incorporation - public international law and its application is a separate issue and not what we should be discussing here
matthew shears:agree with simple phrasing for bylaws
Avri Doria:those are not my concerns, as much as the concerns of tothers. i support the most general language.
Tatiana Tropina:I actually don't see any way to make other than simple wording of bylaws
Megan Richards, European Commission:am responding in the chat then
Megan Richards, European Commission:we should ensure that the work is not duplicating that done in GAC HR wg and other fora
matthew shears:good point - have the GAC discussions evolved since the meeting in BA?
Megan Richards, European Commission:not yet but would be a pity if the various groups were to either duplicate or heavens forbid contradict that of each other
Avri Doria:Isn't the GAC having a simlar definitional issues as the WP4 is having
Megan Richards, European Commission:thanks and apologies for no voice :-)
Maryam Bakoshi:Dear all, welcome to the ICANN and HR call on Friday 29th May 2015
Maryam Bakoshi:Rafik Dammak and Niels Ten Oever have joined the meeting
Marilia Maciel:Hello all!
Maryam Bakoshi:Welcome Marilia
Maryam Bakoshi:Monika has joined
rafik:maybe she is shy :)
Monika Zalnieriute:I also right it here:)
Monika Zalnieriute:haha, I read that I am shy here:)
Monika Zalnieriute:ok, I wait for the call then!
Niels ten Oever - Article19:Monika, can you pick up?
Monika Zalnieriute:I still did not get a call
Maryam Bakoshi: Pranesh Prakash
Monika Zalnieriute:but I can hear You though,
Maryam Bakoshi:Vipul Karbhanda
Maryam Bakoshi:have both joined
Monika Zalnieriute:mayeb someone know, what I should click to make my mic work?
Niels ten Oever - Article19:Clicl on the mic Monika
Maryam Bakoshi:Alexandra please could you state your full name for record purposes. Thank you
Alexandra:Maryam, it's Alexandra Kulikova
Marilia Maciel:Please start the recording
Monika Zalnieriute:yes, I can,
Marilia Maciel:Please, can we let the ppl on the phone introduce themselves?
Alexandra:i'm not sure I won't be able to speak though unfortunately(
Marilia Maciel:Please, mute your mics
rafik:niels shoulds disable the mic for his adobe connect :)
Marianne F:Hi all , there is feedback so we are hearing Niels twice
Marianne F:You're welcom Monika, apologies for the lengthy email nonetheless! :)
Marilia Maciel:What is the deadline to comment?
Niels ten Oever - Article19:Depends if we want to print it nicely
Niels ten Oever - Article19:If we want it to be gone via editor, design and print, we will need to have it done by Monday
rafik:@Niels it is a working document for CCWP to continue the discussion, expecting the CCWP to produce its first delvierable
Niels ten Oever - Article19:Indeed, so we need to agree on a approval procedure (point 1.3 :) )
rafik:I would see it as an "issue report" not necessarily needed an approval , it is more research work to give input
Niels ten Oever - Article19:let's discuss this under the next point
Pranesh Prakash:If we don't make a strong defence of HR, who will? :-) Having said that I don't think there's a need to establish a duty to protect on ICANN's part.
Marianne F:OF course, they do have this responsibility just we need to proceed step by step. So if the point is made in a note then it is there on the record to be used and referred to later if need be (just reiterating verbal point in writing)
Niels ten Oever - Article19:+1
Maryam Bakoshi:Nigel Hickson has joined
Marilia Maciel:Audio issues here. Will have to go out and enter again, sorry
Marianne F:+1 from me for leaving it in as example; just to edit and tighten up for now and indicate there option of more detailed analysis later
Pranesh Prakash:+1 to Marianne
Monika Zalnieriute:Guys, I agree to have it as an example: would You like to have it a shorter part though for now?
Monika Zalnieriute:in this particular report?
Monika Zalnieriute:+ Lee; it might be too much stuff.
Monika Zalnieriute:All at once.
Marianne F:Hi, if the feeling is to keep it in then perhaps as a note? But Lee is pointing out the timing issue so I would defer to those who know ICANN better than I do
Marianne F:Please mute mics when typing! :)
Marianne F:If in doubt leave it out
Alexandra:Agree that the UDRP part might draw attention from the substantial issues int he first partin the shape it is now
Alexandra:I might have missed it - could smb please remind again how GAC is going to be engaged?
Pranesh Prakash:Apologies. I have to leave now. But would just like to reiterate that we mustI (strategically) bear the burden of being the people who take positions on sensitive commercial issues. If we don't, no one else will. We can build bridges after we have some rough position.
Marianne F:+1 from me Pranesh; point well taken, cheerio!
rafik:@Alexandra we have some GAC members in the CCWP, it has its own working group and Lee is basically doing the liaison. maybe Lee can elaborate here
Marilia Maciel:Maybe we could move to the session in BA?
Monika Zalnieriute:So I would like to get the idea what do we do?: please type in here, so I could briefly have an idea who is for LEAVING the UDRP and who is for TAKING OUT
Niels ten Oever - Article19:The consensus seems to be that it could be mentioned as an short example, but we leave ourt the longer expose.
Marilia Maciel:Yes, that is my feeling too
rafik:@monika in few words more coming work for you :)
Monika Zalnieriute:Ok, how long - and how detailed - simply a page or so or approx how long?
Niels ten Oever - Article19:Shorter
Marianne F:Mention it, keep it short as a concrete example vs. a full expose.
Monika Zalnieriute:yes, yes, so simply a single refernece, You mean - thats it?
Monika Zalnieriute:shorter than a page, You mean?
Niels ten Oever - Article19:Yes
Monika Zalnieriute:simply like an example mentione, in a sentence?:)
Alexandra:guys, just a quick comment/observation: an elaborate description of this one case study now will definitely attract criticism from Russian GAC representatives - as at the Signapore meeting they were very vocal on the Crimean domains issue from the HR perspective. It's a very debateable issue in terms of how exactly that relates to the ICANN remit, but if the HRtalk starts with UDRP in detail I can expect the reaction :) what I mean is that there seems to be a strong link for them berween ICANN and that incidet in the HR context. I can expect there will be efforts to stick it in
Marianne F:.. I see your point but won't there be this sort of push back anyway? If this example really could become a red herring (forgive the pun) then leave it out for now. We can always put it back in...
Alexandra:yeah I guess you're right.. But it would be good to at least formulate some stance on the issue from the group? or have a longer least of potential case studies for future
rafik:there will be pish back for many topics, that is why we have to work on consensus and "educate"
Marilia Maciel:Yes, open to collaboration/endorsements
rafik:we need to get CCWP to have ownership on itw own deliverable
Marianne F:I agree; send the final version of the report to the CCWP for comments. People comment best when there is something concrete to comment on.
rafik:the public session is not clashing with important sessions
rafik:kathy is not coming to BA
Marilia Maciel:I would go bit further and ask them for their aseesment
Marilia Maciel:some sort of responsibility to speak
Marianne F:Thanks Niels, thanks all for a great meeting
Alexandra:Hi everyone, in listening only mode unfortunately
Amr Elsadr:This AC room is audio enabled, so you can use it to speak without dialling into the conference.
matthew shears:Is there a ICANN WP template?
matthew shears:when we were doing the Charter for the CCWG Accountbaility there was a template - granted it is a WG not WP but just wondered
Amr Elsadr:Great. Thanks.
Amr Elsadr:Bringing in/recruiting the expertise would be fantastic.
jorge cancio GAC-Switzerland:As information under 4: GAC agreed in Singapore to form a working group on human rights and international law
jorge cancio GAC-Switzerland:It is now being constituted, with a large number of interested GAC members, and with the work being lead by Peru
Amr Elsadr:@Jorge: That's wonderful. Looking fwd to seeing what this WG comes up with. Thanks.
matthew shears:i think it will be important to ensure linkages betwen the WP and the WG - maybe it should be written into the charter
Amr Elsadr:I see this now in the text on the etherpad, which answers my earlier question: To propose procedures and mechanisms with the aim of producingassessments on if and how policies and procedures under developedand/or being implemented may impact on human rights.
Monika Zalnieriute:I am here, I can hear everything, but I am not sure I can speak.
Monika Zalnieriute:Do You hear me?
Amr Elsadr:@Monika: Click on the phone icon on the top left of the screen.
matthew shears:I like the idea of looking at HR in the broader framing of CSR - it might be easier for the SOs and ACs to understand (and be open to)
Maryam Bakoshi:@Monika, please give me your number and I will dial out to you
Monika Zalnieriute:Ok, I have turned my mic, it should work,
Monika Zalnieriute:aha, ok, my phone no xxxxxxxxxxxx
Maryam Bakoshi:Dialling out to you now
Maryam Bakoshi:Yes we can
Niels ten Oever - Article19:Yes we can
Niels ten Oever - Article19:go ahead
Monika Zalnieriute:Ok, so do I speak now?
Niels ten Oever - Article19:Yes, pls go ahead
Niels ten Oever - Article19:We still don't hear you Monika
Monika Zalnieriute:Cool, I hear everything, and I think I agree with Niels
matthew shears:aree Niels - we should focus where we add value and focus - for for example on CSR
Monika Zalnieriute:I see its pretty much clear that we should focus most of our attention on CSR,
Alexandra:It might be useful to look at the Global Network Initiative experience in HR audit
Amr Elsadr:@Monika: I'm not entirely convinced that CSR should be the focus. The real need of HR consideration in ICANN is on how the policies affect domain name holders. This is done using the governance mechanisms via the contracts between ICANN and the registries and registrars, as well as the contracts between the registrars and the registrants.
Amr Elsadr:I'm not sayin that CSR should be excluded, but it shouldn't dominate the focus of the group.
Avri Doria:aplogies for being late. i thought it was later.