MaryamBakoshi:Dearall, welcome to the CCWP on ICANN & HR call on Monday, 17th Aug 2015 at 13:00 UTC
MaryamBakoshi:MeganRichards& Sara Bockey have joined the meeting
MaryamBakoshi:RafikDammak has joinedRafikDammakhasjoined
MaryamBakoshi:MatthewSHears and marilia Marciel MatthewSHearsandmariliaMarciel have joined
MaryamBakoshi:TatianaTropina has joinedTatianaTropinahasjoined
Megan Richards, EuropeanCommission:muchbetter !
MariliaMaciel:Maybewe can see Maybewecansee the agenda on screen?
Niels ten Oever - Article19:1. Short evaluation ICANN2. Works as agreed.1. chart2. legal3. administrivia3. CCWG accountability & human rights4. other issues
Marilia Maciel:Lost audioLostaudio, Niels
Megan Richards, European Commission:we have lost your voice Niels wehavelost yourvoiceNiels!
Maryam Bakoshi:Alexandra, Avri Doria, Stephanie Perrin & Farzaneh have joined
Maryam Bakoshi:Niles will rejoin Nileswillrejoin soon
matthew shears:seem to have seemtohave audio issues
Maryam Bakoshi:We are calling Wearecalling him now
Marilia Maciel:Ok, thanks, Maryam
Maryam Bakoshi:We are working Weareworking to get Niels back on the line
Niels ten Oever - Article19:yyou lost me?
Niels ten Oever - Article19:aii
MaryamBakoshi:Theoperator has been Theoperatorhasbeen trying to call you
Niels ten Oever -Article19:canyou call me again?
Niels ten Oever - Article19:I just hung Ijusthung up now
Niels ten Oever - Article19:pls call me plscallme again
Niels ten Oever - Article19:where did you wheredidyou lose me?
matthew shears:I am here Iamhere (I think)
Megan Richards, European Commission:at the beginning atthebeginning !!
TatianaTropina:canyou hear canyouhear me?
Niels ten Oever - Article19:No we Nowe cannot hear you
Tatiana Tropina:too badtoobad
Maryam Bakoshi:Tatiana do Tatianado you have a number we can sial out to
Maryam Bakoshi:Amr Elsadr AmrElsadr has joined
Maryam Bakoshi:@Tatiana - calling you now
Marilia Maciel:Vacations for Vacationsfor you guys, in Europe I think :)
Maryam Bakoshi:Yes Tatiana YesTatiana is on the line
Marilia Maciel:Avri? Matt? :)
matthew shears:I think Ithink that the accountabillity proposal is also asking for input from commenters on the issue of human rights in the bylaws in parallel
Megan Richards, European Commission:this is thisis what the report seems to say but perhaps this is evolving: •Work plan for Work Stream 2 to: oEnhance diversity and the culture of transparency within ICANNoFurther address concerns about community accountability. The 2nd Draft Report includes a recommendation for regular structural reviews of SOs and ACs to assess their accountability towards their participants as well as towards the stakeholders they are designed to represent.oElaborate on a Commitment to human rights in the ICANN Bylaws.•Details on an implementation plan for Work Stream 1, including a Bylaws drafting process.
Megan Richards, European Commission:sorry- wrong cut and paste !! apologies
matthew shears:in terms of intermsof strategy it will be important for a number of diverse entities to input on this in the publoc consultation - the comment revirew process does inthepublocconsultation- thecommentrevirewprocessdoes not weight the inputs so more inputs on issues of concernsuch as HR issuesofconcernsuchasHR is important
Avri Doria:i plan to iplanto put in my own comment on the issue.
Avri Doria:both HR related bothHRrelated and other.
matthewshears:I think we Ithinkwe have to leave a lot of this to WS2. If we start to get into the detail the bylaw may get very long and cumbersome
Tatiana Tropina:I think it Ithinkit is better to avoid detailing bylaws in order to avoid long legal debates which can get us to nowhere and delay the changes we want
Tatiana Tropina:*again I don't know how far this discussion went before, may be I am just repeating what has already been discussed many times
Megan Richards, European Commission:perhaps its a perhapsitsa problem with the mike - in a nutshell I agree with marilia's commentinanutshellIagree withmarilia'scomment
Maryam Bakoshi:Hi MeganHiMegan, please could you provide your number for dial out
Amr Elsadr:@Matt: RE: HRs in WS2, that sounds logical to me, so +1. For now, some form of commitment from the CCWG to include HR issues in WS2 wouldn't be such a bad thing though.
Megan Richards, European Commission:My number is Mynumberis +322 2962443 but marilia said butmariliasaid exactly what I was going to say -
Avri Doria:The Corporation shall operate for the benefit of the Internet community as a whole, carrying out its activities in conformity with relevant principles of international law and applicable international conventions and local law and, to the extent appropriate and consistent with these Articles and its Bylaws, through open and transparent processes that enable competition and open entry in Internet-related markets. To this effect, the Corporation shall cooperate as appropriate with relevant international organizations
matthew shears:shame we canshamewecan't just asterisk the bylaw above after the word conventions and add if need be UDHR and ICCPR
Tatiana Tropina:@Matthew, it's articles of incorporation I think :)
Megan Richards, European Commission:the articles of thearticlesof incorporation cover all
Avri Doria:... coverl all that are relevant ... applicable ... and to the extent apprpproprote consistent with the bylaws.
TatianaTropina:Yes, in a general way
Megan Richards, European Commission:the Articles theArticles take precedence over the bylaws - the bylaws can limit the application or clarify the specific provisions
Tatiana Tropina:+1 to Megan. I see any changes made to bylaws as clarification of this general commitment
Megan Richards, European Commission:ICANN has agreed ICANNhasagreed to apply the applicable and relevant provisions by virtue of the provisions of its ARticles of incorporation - public international law and its application is a separate issue and not what we should be discussing here
matthew shears:agree with simple matthewshears:agreewithsimple phrasing for bylaws
Avri Doria:those are not thosearenot my concerns, as much as the concerns of tothers. i support the oftothers. isupportthe most general language.
Tatiana Tropina:I actually donIactuallydon't see any way to make other than simple wording of otherthansimplewordingof bylaws
Megan Richards, European Commission:am responding in amrespondingin the chat then
Megan Richards, European Commission:we should ensure weshouldensure that the work is not duplicating that done in GAC HR wg and HRwgand other fora
matthew shears:good point goodpoint- have the GAC discussions evolved since the meeting in BA?
Megan Richards, European Commission:not yet but notyetbut would be a pity if the various groups were to either duplicate or heavens forbid contradict that of each other
Avri Doria:Isn't the GAC having a simlar definitional issues tthe GAC havingasimlardefinitionalissues as the WP4 is having
Megan Richards, European Commission:thanks and apologies thanksandapologies for no voice :-)
Maryam Bakoshi:Dear allDearall, welcome to the ICANN and HR call on Friday 29th May 2015
Maryam Bakoshi:Rafik Dammak and RafikDammakand Niels Ten Oever have joined the meeting
Marilia Maciel:Hello allHelloall!
Maryam Bakoshi:Welcome MariliaWelcomeMarilia
Maryam Bakoshi:Monika has joinedMonikahasjoined
rafik:maybe she is maybesheis shy :)
Monika Zalnieriute:I also right Ialsoright it here:)
Monika Zalnieriute:haha, I read that I am shy here:)
Monika Zalnieriute:ok, I wait for the call then!
Niels ten Oever -Article19:Monika,can you canyou pick up?
MonikaZalnieriute:Istill did not get a Istilldidnotgeta call
Maryam Bakoshi: Pranesh Prakash
Monika Zalnieriute:but I butI can hear You though,
Maryam Bakoshi:Vipul KarbhandaVipulKarbhanda
Maryam Bakoshi:have both joinedhavebothjoined
Monika Zalnieriute:mayeb someone knowmayebsomeoneknow, what I should click to make my mic work?
Niels ten Oever -Article19:Cliclon the mic MonikaCliclonthemicMonika
MaryamBakoshi:Alexandraplease could you state your Alexandrapleasecouldyoustateyour full name for record purposes. Thank you
Alexandra:Maryam,it's Alexandra sAlexandra Kulikova
MariliaMaciel:Pleasestart the recordingPleasestarttherecording
MariliaMaciel:Please,can we let canwelet the ppl on the phone introduce themselves?
Alexandra:i'mnot sure mnotsure I won't be able to speak though unfortunately(
Marilia Maciel:Please, mute your mics
rafik:niels shoulds disable the nielsshouldsdisablethe mic for his adobe connect :)
Marianne F:Hi all Hiall,there is thereis feedback so we are hearing Niels twice
Marianne F:You're welcom Monika, apologies for rewelcomMonika,apologiesfor the lengthy email nonetheless! :)
Marilia Maciel:What is the Whatisthe deadline to comment?
Niels ten Oever - Article19:Depends if we Dependsifwe want to print it nicely
Niels ten Oever - Article19:If we want Ifwewant it to be gone via editor, design and print, we will need to have it done by Monday
rafik:@Niels it is a working document for CCWP to continue the discussion, expecting the CCWP to produce its first delvierable
Niels ten Oever - Article19:Indeed, so we need to agree on a approval procedure toagreeonaapprovalprocedure(point 1.3 :) )
rafik:I would see Iwouldsee it as an "issue report" not necessarily needed an approval , it is neededanapproval,itis more research work to give input
Niels ten Oever - Article19:let's discuss this under the next point
Pranesh Prakash:If we don't make Ifwedon'tmake a strong defence of HR, who will? :-) Having said that I don't think there's a need to establish a duty to protect on ICANN's part.
Marianne F:OF courseOFcourse, they do have this responsibility just we need to proceed step by step. So if the point is made in a note then it is there on the record to be used and referred to later if need be (just reiterating verbal point in writing)
Niels ten Oever - Article19:+1
Maryam Bakoshi:Nigel Hickson has NigelHicksonhas joined
Marilia Maciel:Audio issues hereAudioissueshere. Will have to go out and enter again, sorry
Marianne F:+1 from me for leaving it in as exampleinasexample; just to edit and tighten up for now and indicate there option of more detailed analysis later
Pranesh Prakash:+1 to Marianne
Monika Zalnieriute:Guys, I agree to have it as an example: would You like to have it a shorter part though for now?
MonikaZalnieriute:+ Lee; it might be too much stuff.
Marianne F:Hi, if the feeling is to keep it in then perhaps as a note? But Lee is pointing out the timing issue so I would defer to those who know ICANN better than I do
Marianne F:Please mute mics Pleasemutemics when typing! :)
Marianne F:If in doubt Ifindoubt leave it out
Alexandra:Agree that the Agreethatthe UDRP part might draw attention from the substantial issues int he first partin the shape hefirstpartintheshape it is now
Alexandra:I might have Imighthave missed it -could smb please remind couldsmbpleaseremind again how GAC is going to be engaged?
Pranesh Prakash:Apologies. I have to leave now. But would just like to reiterate that we mustI wemustI(strategically) bear the burden of being the people who take positions on sensitive commercial issues. If we don't, no one else will. We can build bridges after we have some rough position.
Marianne F:+1 from mePranesh; point well taken, cheerio!
rafik:@Alexandra we have some GAC members in the CCWP, it has its own working group and Lee is basically doing the liaison. maybe Lee can elaborate here
Marilia Maciel:Maybe we could Maybewecould move to the session in BA?
Monika Zalnieriute:So I SoI would like to get the idea what do we do?: please type in here, so I could briefly have an idea who is for LEAVING the UDRP and who is for TAKING OUT
Niels ten Oever - Article19:The consensus seems Theconsensusseems to be that it could be mentioned as an short examplementionedasan shortexample, but we leave ourt the longer weleaveourtthelonger expose.
Marilia Maciel:Yes, that is my feeling too
rafik:@monika in few words more coming work for you :)
Monika Zalnieriute:Ok, how long - and how detailed - simply a page or so or approx how long?
Niels ten Oever -Article19:Shorter
MarianneF:Mentionit, keep it short as a concrete example vs. a full expose.
MonikaZalnieriute:yes,yes, so simply a singlereferneceasinglerefernece, You mean -thats itthatsit?
MonikaZalnieriute:shorterthan a pageshorterthanapage, You mean?
Niels ten Oever - Article19:Yes
MonikaZalnieriute:simply like an examplementionesimplylikeanexamplementione, in a sentence?:)
Alexandra:guys, just a quick comment/observation: an elaborate description of this one case elaboratedescriptionof thisonecase study now will definitely attract criticism from Russian GAC representatives - as at the Signapore meeting theSignaporemeeting they were very vocal on the Crimean domains issue from the HR perspective. It's a very debateable issue verydebateableissue in terms of how exactly that relates to the ICANN remitthatrelatesto theICANNremit, but if the HRtalk starts theHRtalkstarts with UDRP in detail I can expect the reaction :) what I mean is that there seems to be a strong link for them berween ICANN and that incidet in themberweenICANN and thatincidetin the HR context. I can expect there will be efforts to stick it in
Marianne F:..I see your point but won't there be this sort of push back anyway? If this example really could become a red herring (forgive the pun) then leave it out for now. We can always put it back in...
Alexandra:yeah I yeahI guess you're right.. But it would be good to at least formulate some stance on the issue from the group? or have a longer least of potential case studies for future
rafik:there will be therewillbe pish back for many topics, that is why we have to work on consensus and "educate"
Marilia Maciel:Yes, open to collaboration/endorsements
rafik:we need to weneedto get CCWP to have ownership on itw own deliverableownershiponitwowndeliverable
Marianne F:I agreeIagree; send the final version of the report to the CCWP for comments. People comment best when there is something concrete to comment on.
rafik:the public session thepublicsession is not clashing with important sessions
rafik:kathy is not coming to BA
Marilia Maciel:I would go bit further and Iwouldgobitfurtherand ask them for their aseesmenttheiraseesment
Marilia Maciel:some sort of somesortof responsibility to speak
Marianne F:Thanks NielsThanksNiels, thanks all for a great meeting
Alexandra:Hi everyone, in listening only mode unfortunatelyHieveryone, inlisteningonlymodeunfortunately
Amr Elsadr:This AC room ThisACroom is audio enabled, so you can use it to speak without dialling into the conference.
matthew shears:Is there a ICANN WP IsthereaICANNWP template?
matthew shears:when we were whenwewere doing the Charter for the CCWG Accountbaility there CCWGAccountbailitythere was a template - granted it is a WG not WP WGnotWP but just wondered
Amr Elsadr:Great. Thanks.
Amr Elsadr:Bringing inBringingin/recruiting the expertise would be fantastic.
jorge cancio GAC jorgecancioGAC-Switzerland:As information under Asinformationunder 4: GAC agreed in Singapore to form a working group on human rights and international law
jorge cancio GAC jorgecancioGAC-Switzerland:It is now Itisnow being constituted, with a large number of interested GAC members, and with the work being lead by Peru
Amr Elsadr:@Jorge: That's wonderful. Looking fwd to seeing what this WG comes up with. Thanks.
matthew shears:i think it ithinkit will be important to ensure linkages betwen the linkagesbetwenthe WP and the WG - maybe it should be written into the charter
Amr Elsadr:I see this Iseethis now in the text on the etherpadtheetherpad, which answers my earlier question: To propose procedures and mechanisms with the aim of producingassessments on ofproducingassessmentson if and how policies and procedures under developedandunderdevelopedand/or being implemented may impact on human rights.
MonikaZalnieriute:Iamhere, I can hear everything, but I am not sure I can speak.
MonikaZalnieriute:DoYou hear meDoYouhearme?
Amr Elsadr:@Monika: Click on the phone icon on the top left of the screen.
matthew shears:I like the Ilikethe idea of looking at HR in the broader framing of CSR - it might be easier for the SOs and ACs to understand (and be open to)
Maryam Bakoshi:@Monika, please give me your number and I will dial out to you
Monika Zalnieriute:Ok, I have turned my mic, it should work,
Monika Zalnieriute:aha, ok, my phone no xxxxxxxxxxxx
Maryam Bakoshi:Dialling out to Diallingoutto you now
Maryam Bakoshi:Yes we canYeswecan
Niels ten Oever - Article19:Yes we canYeswecan
Niels ten Oever - Article19:go aheadgoahead
Monika Zalnieriute:Ok, so do I speak now?
Niels ten Oever - Article19:Yes, pls go ahead
Niels ten Oever - Article19:We still donWestilldon't hear you MonikahearyouMonika
MonikaZalnieriute:Cool, I hear everything, and I think I agree with Niels
matthew shears:aree Niels areeNiels - we should focus where we add value and focus -for for example on forforexampleon CSR
Monika Zalnieriute:I see its Iseeits pretty much clear that we should focus most of our attention on CSR,
Alexandra:It might be Itmightbe useful to look at the Global Network Initiative experience in HR auditexperienceinHRaudit
Amr Elsadr:@Monika: I'm not entirely convinced that CSR should be the focus. The real need of HR needofHR consideration in ICANN is on how the policies affect domain name holders. This is done using the governance mechanisms via the contracts between ICANN and the registries and registrars, as well as the contracts between the registrars and the registrants.
AmrElsadr:I'mnotsayinthat CSR should be excluded, but it shouldn't dominate the focus of the group.
Avri Doria:aplogiesforbeing late. i thought it aplogiesforbeinglate. ithoughtit was later.
nigel hickson:Assume Lee can talkonCOE work nigelhickson:AssumeLeecantalkonCOEwork?
matthew shears:@ Amr - understand your point re CSR - but I guess my feeling is that using that approach as an umbrella may make the issue for palatable
Amr Elsadr:@Matt: Looks interesting. Will have to put a couple of hours aside to go through it. :)
matthew shears:has this been hasthisbeen circulated more broadly LeebroadlyLee?
jorge cancio GAC jorgecancioGAC-Switzerland:will a short willashort summary of this call be circulated?
matthew shears:I think it Ithinkit will be very important going forward that this WP has the fullest visibility of what is going on vis-a-vis ICANN and HR bpoth inside and outsdide ICANNHRbpothinside andoutsdideICANN
Amr Elsadr:Thanks allThanksall. Bye.
matthew shears:thanks Niels thanksNiels all
Maryam Bakoshi:Thank you all jorge cancio GACThankyouall
Anri vd Spuy AnrivdSpuy:Thanks.
Niel Ten Oever, Rafik Dammak, Amr Elsadr, Marilia Marciel, Benjamin Akinmoyeje, Jorge Cancio, Concettina Cassa, Chris Lahatte, Nigel Hickson, Alexandra, Lee Hibbard, Matthew Shears, Monika Zalnieruite, Megan Richards, Jean-Jacques Sahel, Stephania Milan, Avri Doria