Dearall, welcome to the CCWP on ICANN & HR call on Monday, 17th Aug 2015 at 13:00 UTC
Maryam Bakoshi
MaryamBakoshi:
Megan Richards
MeganRichards& Sara Bockey have joined the meeting
Maryam Bakoshi:Rafik Dammak has joined
Maryam Bakoshi:Niels has joined
MaryamBakoshi:RafikDammakhasjoined
MaryamBakoshi:Nielshasjoined
matthewshears
matthew shears
:hello
Maryam Bakoshi:Matthew SHears and marilia Marciel
MaryamBakoshi:MatthewSHearsandmariliaMarciel have joined
Maryam Bakoshi:Tatiana Tropina has joined
MaryamBakoshi:TatianaTropinahasjoined
MariliaMaciel:Helloall
Marilia Maciel:Hello all
!
Megan Richards,
European Commission
EuropeanCommission:
much better
muchbetter !
Marilia Maciel
MariliaMaciel:Sure.
Tatiana Tropina
TatianaTropina:
Hi everyone
Hieveryone!
Marilia Maciel
MariliaMaciel:Yes
Marilia Maciel:Maybe we can see
MariliaMaciel:Maybewecansee the agenda on screen?
Niels ten Oever - Article19:1. Short evaluation ICANN2. Works as agreed.1. chart2. legal3. administrivia3. CCWG accountability & human rights4. other issues
Marilia Maciel:Perfect
Marilia Maciel:
Lost audio
Lostaudio, Niels
Megan Richards, European Commission:
we have lost your voice Niels
wehavelost yourvoiceNiels!
Maryam Bakoshi:Alexandra, Avri Doria, Stephanie Perrin & Farzaneh have joined
Maryam Bakoshi:
Niles will rejoin
Nileswillrejoin soon
matthew shears:
seem to have
seemtohave audio issues
Maryam Bakoshi:
We are calling
Wearecalling him now
Marilia Maciel:Ok, thanks, Maryam
Maryam Bakoshi:
We are working
Weareworking to get Niels back on the line
Niels ten Oever - Article19:yyou lost me?
Maryam Bakoshi
MaryamBakoshi:Yes
Niels ten Oever - Article19:aii
Marilia Maciel
MariliaMaciel:Yes,
no audio
noaudio
Maryam Bakoshi:The operator has been
MaryamBakoshi:Theoperatorhasbeen trying to call you
Niels ten Oever -Article19:
can you
canyou call me again?
Niels ten Oever - Article19:
I just hung
Ijusthung up now
Niels ten Oever - Article19:
pls call me
plscallme again
Niels ten Oever - Article19:
where did you
wheredidyou lose me?
matthew shears:
I am here
Iamhere (I think)
Megan Richards, European Commission:
at the beginning
atthebeginning !!
Tatiana Tropina:can you hear
TatianaTropina:canyouhear me?
Niels ten Oever - Article19:
No we
Nowe cannot hear you
Maryam Bakoshi:No
Tatiana Tropina:
too bad
toobad
Maryam Bakoshi:
Tatiana do
Tatianado you have a number we can sial out to
Maryam Bakoshi:*dial
Tatiana Tropina:+4917635423791
Maryam Bakoshi:
Amr Elsadr
AmrElsadr has joined
Maryam Bakoshi:@Tatiana - calling you now
Marilia Maciel:
Vacations for
Vacationsfor you guys, in Europe I think :)
Maryam Bakoshi:
Yes Tatiana
YesTatiana is on the line
Marilia Maciel:Avri? Matt? :)
matthew shears:
I think
Ithink that the accountabillity proposal is also asking for input from commenters on the issue of human rights in the bylaws in parallel
Megan Richards, European Commission:
this is
thisis what the report seems to say but perhaps this is evolving: •Work plan for Work Stream 2 to: oEnhance diversity and the culture of transparency within ICANNoFurther address concerns about community accountability. The 2nd Draft Report includes a recommendation for regular structural reviews of SOs and ACs to assess their accountability towards their participants as well as towards the stakeholders they are designed to represent.oElaborate on a Commitment to human rights in the ICANN Bylaws.•Details on an implementation plan for Work Stream 1, including a Bylaws drafting process.
Megan Richards, European Commission:sorry- wrong cut and paste !! apologies
matthew shears:
in terms of
intermsof strategy it will be important for a number of diverse entities to input on this
in the publoc consultation - the comment revirew process does
inthepublocconsultation- thecommentrevirewprocessdoes not weight the inputs so more inputs on
issues of concernsuch as HR
issuesofconcernsuchasHR is important
Avri Doria:
i plan to
iplanto put in my own comment on the issue.
Avri Doria:
both HR related
bothHRrelated and other.
matthew shears
matthewshears:+ 1
matthew shears:I think we
matthewshears:Ithinkwe have to leave a lot of this to WS2. If we start to get into the detail the bylaw may get very long and cumbersome
Tatiana Tropina:
I think it
Ithinkit is better to avoid detailing bylaws in order to avoid long legal debates which can get us to nowhere and delay the changes we want
matthew shears:yep
Tatiana Tropina:*again I don't know how far this discussion went before, may be I am just repeating what has already been discussed many times
Megan Richards, European Commission:
perhaps its a
perhapsitsa problem with the mike -
in a nutshell I agree with marilia's comment
inanutshellIagree withmarilia'scomment
Maryam Bakoshi:
Hi Megan
HiMegan, please could you provide your number for dial out
Amr Elsadr:@Matt: RE: HRs in WS2, that sounds logical to me, so +1. For now, some form of commitment from the CCWG to include HR issues in WS2 wouldn't be such a bad thing though.
Megan Richards, European Commission:
My number is
Mynumberis +322 2962443
but marilia said
butmariliasaid exactly what I was going to say -
Avri Doria:The Corporation shall operate for the benefit of the Internet community as a whole, carrying out its activities in conformity with relevant principles of international law and applicable international conventions and local law and, to the extent appropriate and consistent with these Articles and its Bylaws, through open and transparent processes that enable competition and open entry in Internet-related markets. To this effect, the Corporation shall cooperate as appropriate with relevant international organizations
matthew shears:
shame we can
shamewecan't just asterisk the bylaw above after the word conventions and add if need be UDHR and ICCPR
Tatiana Tropina:@Matthew, it's articles of incorporation I think :)
matthew shears:thanks
Megan Richards, European Commission:
the articles of
thearticlesof incorporation cover all
Avri Doria:... coverl all that are relevant ... applicable ... and to the extent apprpproprote consistent with the bylaws.
Tatiana Tropina
TatianaTropina:Yes, in a general way
Megan Richards, European Commission:
the Articles
theArticles take precedence over the bylaws - the bylaws can limit the application or clarify the specific provisions
Tatiana Tropina:+1 to Megan. I see any changes made to bylaws as clarification of this general commitment
Megan Richards, European Commission:
ICANN has agreed
ICANNhasagreed to apply the applicable and relevant provisions by virtue of the provisions of its ARticles of incorporation - public international law and its application is a separate issue and not what we should be discussing here
matthew shears:agree with simple
matthewshears:agreewithsimple phrasing for bylaws
Avri Doria:
those are not
thosearenot my concerns, as much as the concerns
of tothers. i support the
oftothers. isupportthe most general language.
Tatiana Tropina:
I actually don
Iactuallydon't see any way to make
other than simple wording of
otherthansimplewordingof bylaws
Megan Richards, European Commission:
am responding in
amrespondingin the chat then
Megan Richards, European Commission:
we should ensure
weshouldensure that the work is not duplicating that done in GAC
HR wg and
HRwgand other fora
matthew shears:
good point
goodpoint- have the GAC discussions evolved since the meeting in BA?
Megan Richards, European Commission:
not yet but
notyetbut would be a pity if the various groups were to either duplicate or heavens forbid contradict that of each other
Avri Doria:Isn'
t the GAC having a simlar definitional issues
tthe GAC havingasimlardefinitionalissues as the WP4 is having
Dearall, welcome to the ICANN and HR call on Friday 29th May 2015
Maryam Bakoshi:
Rafik Dammak and
RafikDammakand Niels Ten Oever have joined the meeting
Maryam Bakoshi:Welcome
Marilia Maciel:
Hello all
Helloall!
Maryam Bakoshi:
Welcome Marilia
WelcomeMarilia
rafik:non
Maryam Bakoshi:
Monika has joined
Monikahasjoined
rafik:
maybe she is
maybesheis shy :)
Monika Zalnieriute:xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Monika Zalnieriute:
I also right
Ialsoright it here:)
Monika Zalnieriute:haha, I read that I am shy here:)
Monika Zalnieriute:ok, I wait for the call then!
Niels ten Oever -Article19:Monika,
can you
canyou pick up?
Monika Zalnieriute:I still did not get a
MonikaZalnieriute:Istilldidnotgeta call
rafik:
who joined
whojoined?
Maryam Bakoshi: Pranesh Prakash
Monika Zalnieriute:
but I
butI can hear You though,
Maryam Bakoshi:
Vipul Karbhanda
VipulKarbhanda
Maryam Bakoshi:
have both joined
havebothjoined
Monika Zalnieriute:
mayeb someone know
mayebsomeoneknow, what I should click to make my mic work?
Niels ten Oever -Article19:
Clicl on the mic Monika
CliclonthemicMonika
Alexandra:hi!
Maryam Bakoshi:Alexandra please could you state your
MaryamBakoshi:Alexandrapleasecouldyoustateyour full name for record purposes. Thank you
Alexandra:Maryam,it'
s Alexandra
sAlexandra Kulikova
Marilia Maciel:Please start the recording
MariliaMaciel:Pleasestarttherecording
MonikaZalnieriute
Monika Zalnieriute
:yes,
I can
Ican,
Marilia Maciel
MariliaMaciel:Please,
can we let
canwelet the ppl on the phone introduce themselves?
Alexandra:i'
m not sure
mnotsure I won't be able to speak though unfortunately(
Marilia Maciel:Please, mute your mics
rafik:
niels shoulds disable the
nielsshouldsdisablethe mic for his adobe connect :)
Marianne F:
Hi all
Hiall,
there is
thereis feedback so we are hearing Niels twice
Marianne F:You'
re welcom Monika, apologies for
rewelcomMonika,apologiesfor the lengthy email nonetheless! :)
Marilia Maciel:
What is the
Whatisthe deadline to comment?
Niels ten Oever - Article19:
Depends if we
Dependsifwe want to print it nicely
Niels ten Oever - Article19:
If we want
Ifwewant it to be gone via editor, design and print, we will need to have it done by Monday
rafik:@Niels it is a working document for CCWP to continue the discussion, expecting the CCWP to produce its first delvierable
Niels ten Oever - Article19:Indeed, so we need
to agree on a approval procedure
toagreeonaapprovalprocedure(point 1.3 :) )
rafik:
I would see
Iwouldsee it as an "issue report" not necessarily
needed an approval , it is
neededanapproval,itis more research work to give input
Niels ten Oever - Article19:let's discuss this under the next point
Pranesh Prakash:
If we don't make
Ifwedon'tmake a strong defence of HR, who will? :-) Having said that I don't think there's a need to establish a duty to protect on ICANN's part.
Marianne F:
OF course
OFcourse, they do have this responsibility just we need to proceed step by step. So if the point is made in a note then it is there on the record to be used and referred to later if need be (just reiterating verbal point in writing)
Niels ten Oever - Article19:+1
Pranesh Prakash:+1
Maryam Bakoshi:
Nigel Hickson has
NigelHicksonhas joined
Marilia Maciel:
Audio issues here
Audioissueshere. Will have to go out and enter again, sorry
Marianne F:+1 from me for leaving it
in as example
inasexample; just to edit and tighten up for now and indicate there option of more detailed analysis later
Pranesh Prakash:+1 to Marianne
Monika Zalnieriute:Guys, I agree to have it as an example: would You like to have it a shorter part though for now?
Monika Zalnieriute:in this particular
MonikaZalnieriute:inthisparticular report?
Monika Zalnieriute
MonikaZalnieriute:+ Lee; it might be too much stuff.
Monika Zalnieriute:All at once
MonikaZalnieriute:Allatonce.
Marianne F:Hi, if the feeling is to keep it in then perhaps as a note? But Lee is pointing out the timing issue so I would defer to those who know ICANN better than I do
Marianne F:
Please mute mics
Pleasemutemics when typing! :)
Marianne F:
If in doubt
Ifindoubt leave it out
Alexandra:
Agree that the
Agreethatthe UDRP part might draw attention from the substantial issues int
he first partin the shape
hefirstpartintheshape it is now
Alexandra:
I might have
Imighthave missed it -
could smb please remind
couldsmbpleaseremind again how GAC is going to be engaged?
Pranesh Prakash:Apologies. I have to leave now. But would just like to reiterate that
we mustI
wemustI(strategically) bear the burden of being the people who take positions on sensitive commercial issues. If we don't, no one else will. We can build bridges after we have some rough position.
Marianne F:+1 from
me Pranesh
mePranesh; point well taken, cheerio!
rafik:@Alexandra we have some GAC members in the CCWP, it has its own working group and Lee is basically doing the liaison. maybe Lee can elaborate here
Marilia Maciel:
Maybe we could
Maybewecould move to the session in BA?
Monika Zalnieriute:
So I
SoI would like to get the idea what do we do?: please type in here, so I could briefly have an idea who is for LEAVING the UDRP and who is for TAKING OUT
Niels ten Oever - Article19:
The consensus seems
Theconsensusseems to be that it could be
mentioned as an short example
mentionedasan shortexample, but
we leave ourt the longer
weleaveourtthelonger expose.
Alexandra:sorry
Marilia Maciel:Yes, that is my feeling too
Alexandra:I'
ll type
lltype
rafik:@monika in few words more coming work for you :)
Monika Zalnieriute:Ok, how long - and how detailed - simply a page or so or approx how long?
Niels ten Oever -Article19:Shorter
Marianne F
MarianneF:
Mention it
Mentionit, keep it short as a concrete example vs. a full expose.
Monika Zalnieriute
MonikaZalnieriute:yes,yes, so simply
a single refernece
asinglerefernece, You mean -
thats it
thatsit?
Monika Zalnieriute:shorter than a page
MonikaZalnieriute:shorterthanapage, You mean?
Niels ten Oever - Article19:Yes
Monika Zalnieriute:simply like an example mentione
MonikaZalnieriute:simplylikeanexamplementione, in a sentence?:)
Alexandra:guys, just a quick comment/observation: an
elaborate description of this one case
elaboratedescriptionof thisonecase study now will definitely attract criticism from Russian GAC representatives - as at
the Signapore meeting
theSignaporemeeting they were very vocal on the Crimean domains issue from the HR perspective. It's a
very debateable issue
verydebateableissue in terms of how exactly
that relates to the ICANN remit
thatrelatesto theICANNremit, but if
the HRtalk starts
theHRtalkstarts with UDRP in detail I can expect the reaction :) what I mean is that there seems to be a strong link for
them berween ICANN and that incidet in
themberweenICANN and thatincidetin the HR context. I can expect there will be efforts to stick it in
Marianne F:..I see your point but won't there be this sort of push back anyway? If this example really could become a red herring (forgive the pun) then leave it out for now. We can always put it back in...
Alexandra:
yeah I
yeahI guess you're right.. But it would be good to at least formulate some stance on the issue from the group? or have a longer least of potential case studies for future
Alexandra:*list
rafik:
there will be
therewillbe pish back for many topics, that is why we have to work on consensus and "educate"
Marilia Maciel:Yes, open to collaboration/endorsements
rafik:
we need to
weneedto get CCWP to have
ownership on itw own deliverable
ownershiponitwowndeliverable
Marianne F:
I agree
Iagree; send the final version of the report to the CCWP for comments. People comment best when there is something concrete to comment on.
rafik:
the public session
thepublicsession is not clashing with important sessions
ThisACroom is audio enabled, so you can use it to speak without dialling into the conference.
matthew shears:
Is there a ICANN WP
IsthereaICANNWP template?
matthew shears:
when we were
whenwewere doing the Charter for the
CCWG Accountbaility there
CCWGAccountbailitythere was a template - granted it is a
WG not WP
WGnotWP but just wondered
Amr Elsadr:Great. Thanks.
Amr Elsadr:
Bringing in
Bringingin/recruiting the expertise would be fantastic.
jorge cancio GAC
jorgecancioGAC-Switzerland:
As information under
Asinformationunder 4: GAC agreed in Singapore to form a working group on human rights and international law
jorge cancio GAC
jorgecancioGAC-Switzerland:
It is now
Itisnow being constituted, with a large number of interested GAC members, and with the work being lead by Peru
Amr Elsadr:@Jorge: That's wonderful. Looking fwd to seeing what this WG comes up with. Thanks.
matthew shears:
i think it
ithinkit will be important to ensure
linkages betwen the
linkagesbetwenthe WP and the WG - maybe it should be written into the charter
Amr Elsadr:
I see this
Iseethis now in the text on
the etherpad
theetherpad, which answers my earlier question: To propose procedures and mechanisms with the aim
of producingassessments on
ofproducingassessmentson if and how policies and procedures
under developedand
underdevelopedand/or being implemented may impact on human rights.
Monika Zalnieriute:I am here
MonikaZalnieriute:Iamhere, I can hear everything, but I am not sure I can speak.
Monika Zalnieriute:Do You hear me
MonikaZalnieriute:DoYouhearme?
Amr Elsadr:@Monika: Click on the phone icon on the top left of the screen.
matthew shears:
I like the
Ilikethe idea of looking at HR in the broader framing of CSR - it might be easier for the SOs and ACs to understand (and be open to)
Maryam Bakoshi:@Monika, please give me your number and I will dial out to you
Monika Zalnieriute:Ok, I have turned my mic, it should work,
Monika Zalnieriute:aha, ok, my phone no xxxxxxxxxxxx
Maryam Bakoshi:
Dialling out to
Diallingoutto you now
Maryam Bakoshi:
Yes we can
Yeswecan
Niels ten Oever - Article19:
Yes we can
Yeswecan
Niels ten Oever - Article19:
go ahead
goahead
Monika Zalnieriute:Ok, so do I speak now?
Niels ten Oever - Article19:Yes, pls go ahead
Niels ten Oever - Article19:
We still don
Westilldon't
hear you Monika Monika Zalnieriute
hearyouMonika
MonikaZalnieriute:Cool, I hear everything, and I think I agree with Niels
matthew shears:
aree Niels
areeNiels - we should focus where we add value and focus -
for for example on
forforexampleon CSR
Monika Zalnieriute:
I see its
Iseeits pretty much clear that we should focus most of our attention on CSR,
Alexandra:
It might be
Itmightbe useful to look at the Global Network Initiative
experience in HR audit
experienceinHRaudit
Amr Elsadr:@Monika: I'm not entirely convinced that CSR should be the focus. The real
need of HR
needofHR consideration in ICANN is on how the policies affect domain name holders. This is done using the governance mechanisms via the contracts between ICANN and the registries and registrars, as well as the contracts between the registrars and the registrants.
Amr Elsadr
AmrElsadr:I'
m not sayin that
mnotsayinthat CSR should be excluded, but it shouldn't dominate the focus of the group.
matthew shears:@ Amr - understand your point re CSR - but I guess my feeling is that using that approach as an umbrella may make the issue for palatable
Amr Elsadr:@Matt: Looks interesting. Will have to put a couple of hours aside to go through it. :)
matthew shears:
has this been
hasthisbeen circulated more
broadly Lee
broadlyLee?
jorge cancio GAC
jorgecancioGAC-Switzerland:
will a short
willashort summary of this call be circulated?
matthew shears:
I think it
Ithinkit will be very important going forward that this WP has the fullest visibility of what is going on vis-a-vis ICANN and
HR bpoth inside and outsdide ICANN
HRbpothinside andoutsdideICANN
Amr Elsadr:
Thanks all
Thanksall. Bye.
matthew shears:
thanks Niels
thanksNiels all
Chris LaHatte:thanks
Maryam Bakoshi:
Thank you all
Thankyouall
jorgecancioGAC
jorge cancio GAC
-Switzerland:thanks
Anri vd Spuy
AnrivdSpuy:Thanks.
Expand
Niel Ten Oever, Rafik Dammak, Amr Elsadr, Marilia Marciel, Benjamin Akinmoyeje, Jorge Cancio, Concettina Cassa, Chris Lahatte, Nigel Hickson, Alexandra, Lee Hibbard, Matthew Shears, Monika Zalnieruite, Megan Richards, Jean-Jacques Sahel, Stephania Milan, Avri Doria
