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Heidi Ullrich: Okay, so does everyone have the agenda?

Dev Anand Teelucksingh: This is Dev, yes.

Heidi Ullrich: Okay, just for – so, again, for a roll call, we have Gareth, Evan, Andreas, and Dev? Anybody else? Okay, we also have apologies from Darlene, and we have followed up with several e-mails to EURALO and APRALO as well as AFRALO. So we'll just continue and feed back to them during the next one. We can maybe just call this one a preliminary call.

The second agenda item is selection of the chair for today's call, so is there a volunteer?

Dev Anand Teelucksingh: Somebody.

Unidentified Participant: Dev, you get it.

Dev Anand Teelucksingh: Okay, next time somebody else gets it then.

Heidi Ullrich: We can do that. We can have a rotating chair. Does everyone agree to that?

Evan Leibovitch: Sure. Who did it at the Sydney meeting? I had to leave early.

Dev Anand Teelucksingh: Well, yes, but – okay. Okay, so, all right – we've completed the roll call and selection of chair – the review of the summary minutes of the 25th of June 2009?

Heidi Ullrich: Yes, I have actually looked for them, and I need to continue looking or I need to revert back to my notes, so apologies for that.

Dev Anand Teelucksingh: Okay.

Heidi Ullrich: But I think the key issue would be contained within the action items.

Dev Anand Teelucksingh: Yes. That link is active. Okay, materials to follow with the DiplFoundation regarding capacity building/outreach opportunities and, okay, just for my clarification, what is NAH?

Heidi Ullrich: That's Nick Ashton Hart.

Dev Anand Teelucksingh: Thank you, just making sure. Well, Nick isn't here yet. We'll find out (inaudible) find more information about that. "Staff will ask Janice to send fellowship information from past three meetings to our leaders so they can follow up with possible ALS candidates."

Heidi Ullrich: Yes, and we'll follow up with that one as well. But we'll do better on the next two.

Dev Anand Teelucksingh: Okay. Now, so – well, while this teleconference has started, the cross-regional teleconferences, the Secretariat wiki and the list-serves and also to look at the possibility to install cross-regional wikis and cross-regional teleconferences. Cross-regional wikis – what exactly does that mean?

Heidi Ullrich: Actually, this is one of the issues I would like to have clarified today, and I have been speaking with various people who were here or active during when the secretary had called, took place in the past, and it is up to you to decide – would you like this, the workspace and the calls to be focused on the regional or the RALO officers, i.e., the chairs and the secretaries, or would you like it opened up? What is your feeling on that? And that is one of the agenda items below as well.

Any thoughts on that?

Dev Anand Teelucksingh: Well, I think it's – we couldn't have the cross-regional wiki and have it set up so we have the minutes of the next meeting, similar to how each RALO is organized, and so I don't see any problem with it. Does anybody else have any problems or any thoughts of it?

Unidentified Participant: I mean, in the same way that this is a group just like any other working group or anything like that. I mean, in some ways this could actually take, you know, a similar format to the ALAC working groups of whatever and something, you know, just structurally so it doesn't get lost amongst everything else.

Heidi Ullrich: I'm just curious – how would across RALO wiki look different than the At-Large Secretariat's Workspace?

Unidentified Participant: That's a very good question.

Unidentified Participant: I agree.

Dev Anand Teelucksingh: Perhaps we should also – ?

Heidi Ullrich: Yeah, if you haven't had a chance or you haven't had a chance, take a look at what we've created. What we've tried to incorporate are very similar to what we've done on the at-large one where we have the key issues going on that you should be aware of, and you can report that back to your ALSs.

Dev Anand Teelucksingh: I posted a link in the chats for those.

Heidi Ullrich: I'm sorry?

Dev Anand Teelucksingh: I posted a link to the secretariat's workspace in the chat, I said.

Heidi Ullrich: Oh, okay. Okay, I don't actually see that.

Dev Anand Teelucksingh: Oh?

Heidi Ullrich: No.

Dev Anand Teelucksingh: That's strange, because – .

Heidi Ullrich: Oh, there it is, okay. Hello?

Dev Anand Teelucksingh: Yeah, we're here.

Heidi Ullrich: Hi, Dessi. You have a very bad connection. Okay, Adigo is going to see if they can help with that. Okay, no, there is nothing they can do with Dessi's line. So, Dessi, I don't know if you can hear us, but we can't really hear you. Okay? And what we're being told from Adigo is that you would need to dial back in. So, Dev, go ahead.

Dev Anand Teelucksingh: Okay. Well, I am looking at the existing – now I lost it – the – at last secretariat's books deal. I am tempted to say use this as is and let's continue working on it because I am not too sure what the – the cross-regional teleconference is and that you – okay, we tried – and I imagine that means that – what I understand to mean cross-regional, you know, is like what we're doing now and possibly even rotate the times that are just more suitable for the other regions, you know? So if afternoon in the APALO, EURALO, so forth. But I am not sure what cross-regional wiki is. I guess I'm not understanding what that fully means.

Heidi Ullrich: Yeah, I think that would be up for all of you to decide. I mean, you could carry it across the secretariat's workspace and calls could be limited to just the RALO officers, while across RALO could be a more global, or some ALSs could participate as well, or other at-large representatives.

Dev Anand Teelucksingh: But I mean, we can – everybody can link to the Secretariat Workspace as is, right now. So – ?

Heidi Ullrich: Yes, that is true.

Dev Anand Teelucksingh: So if that's all it takes is for just including, you know, links that we put stuff up on the At-Large Secretariat's wiki, and then we just link it to it from our, you know, for our teleconferences for each RALO and so forth. I think that should be fine, I think that should suffice. But, again, any thoughts or comments on that?

Heidi Ullrich: Okay, any other comments?

Unidentified Participant: I guess everything, to me, depends on how much we actually do here that's separate from what's being done either through ALAC or through the RALOs.

Wolf Ludwig: May I add my comment?

Heidi Ullrich: Hi, Wolf.

Unidentified Participant: Hello, Wolf.

Wolf Ludwig: Hi. Sorry for being late, but I am now on two calls in about five minutes, and as far as I got what you were discussing, so far, I would suggest not to be too ambitious from the very start. I am very glad about having this new substructure of the RALO calls or Secretariat calls, and to have another level for discussion and especially for coordination among RALOs. But I am a bit hesitant at the moment to create too many wikis in parallel. If something comes out to be very dynamic, to be very creative and very constructive altogether to save time, at a certain stage it may make sense to create something new and in parallel. But I think let things start, develop and grow, and at the very moment we realize that as they become very important, then let's institutionalize (inaudible). For the time being, I would be rather reluctant and say, "Okay, let's have regular calls and coordination efforts on the RALO level or the Secretariat level, but don't be – don't let us be too over-ambitious to create new tools. This was my two cents. And there was silence at the other end.

Heidi Ullrich: That means that I think it's worth more than two cents, Wolf.

Wolf Ludwig: I hope it wasn't too stupid what I was suggesting.

Unidentified Participant: No, I don't think it's – no, it's a valuable suggestion – keep it simple, as always – expand when you need to.

Wolf Ludwig: And let it progress, exactly. I post my motion.

Heidi Ullrich: Okay, well, I think that segues very nicely into the next item, but – Dev?

Dev Anand Teelucksingh: Yes. So, okay, staff will work with the RALO leaders to look at the possibility of creating an events calendar for EURALO and include the presence of ICANN liaisons.

Heidi Ullrich: Yes, actually, sorry, I meant the main agenda, but – yes.

Dev Anand Teelucksingh: Sorry.

Heidi Ullrich: Sorry, that was my mistake, sorry. Yes, we have actually created this, and we will be showing that to you during this call. It already exists, actually.

Dev Anand Teelucksingh: Okay.

Heidi Ullrich: In fact, why don't we take a look at it right now. You can – if you go back to the main Secretariat page, the main wiki, and this is already – this calendar actually now exists on all of your RALO Wikis as well as the At-Large wiki. And if you click on – let's click over to September. You'll see right away, and, Wolf, this is particularly to highlight your – the EURALO upcoming events. If you click on the calendar over to September, you will see, in orange, two events – one on September 13th and one on September 14 through 15.

Wolf Ludwig: Sorry, Heidi, I must admit I am not sure whether we are on the same wiki page. I am on today's 20 August At-Large Future Secretariat's Cross-RALO Teleconference.

Heidi Ullrich: Okay, can you go back one step to the main Secretariat workspace?

Wolf Ludwig: Okay, just a moment.

Heidi Ullrich: Okay, is everyone else already there?

Unidentified Participant: Yes.

Heidi Ullrich: Okay. So you can see what we've done, is we've embedded another calendar, which is the At-Large External Events – Regional Events Calendar so that what we're asking is that all of you – all of you have been given editing rights for this calendar that you can work with your ALSs to identify upcoming regional events.

Wolf Ludwig: Right.

Heidi Ullrich: And we will then – you can then post the information – when, where, a description, you can add any related URLs to this. This is a way that you can organize your regional events.

Dev Anand Teelucksingh: Okay. I assume – is it color-coded for regions, or is it just the external events (inaudible)?

Heidi Ullrich: Right now I believe it's one color for all. I had tried something earlier that did allow for the different RALO colors, but I think, at the moment, it's just one color.

Dev Anand Teelucksingh: Okay.

Heidi Ullrich: And what we're hoping on doing, and this is we're hoping on getting this done by the time of Tuesday's call with Rod is put the global partnership events in there as well. So there will be one calendar where everyone – global partnerships at large, the RALOs, the ALSs, et cetera, can see upcoming events in all of the regions.

Dev Anand Teelucksingh: Okay.

Heidi Ullrich: So this is not only important to your ALSs so you can coordinate regional events but also I can and global partnership can, hopefully, coordinate with you to a greater degree.

Dev Anand Teelucksingh: Very well. What about the presence of ICANN liaisons? This is also in the calendar? Because I am just looking and I am not seeing it.

Heidi Ullrich: No, this is – we just made this live this morning. So that's why – one of the key reasons or key outputs of this call is that we're hoping that you can work with your ALSs in the next several days to identify regional events. And you can put them onto the calendar. So by the time that we have to call with Rod on this Tuesday, the 25th, we will have a calendar that shows a lot of activity in the regions.

Dev Anand Teelucksingh: Okay. No, what I was trying to say is ICANN liaisons, you know, like, for example, all ICANN liaisons for all the different regions. At Sydney we talked about having – knowing when ICANN is online in particular countries, because sometimes the in and out of a country, and we, you know, it's literally almost – you found out after, you know, so that, I think, was also – that's what I was asking. Well, for example, I know that the ICANN liaison for Caribbean is Shernon. So if I knew where Shernon is going to whatever country, I know I could meet with him or e-mail him to organize a meeting, that kind of stuff.

Heidi Ullrich: Exactly, and that's why I believe what came out of the secretariat meeting in Sydney is they asked us, At-Large staff, to go into our staff portal where they have their information. We'll go ahead and put that information onto the calendar.

Dev Anand Teelucksingh: Yes. Well, I have to say it looks like a very – but, of course, we can remove the views from certain links if we are editing, right? Because it looks like they – how should I better say – very congested calendar – complex calendar with all the different events happening.

Heidi Ullrich: Yes, there is a way where you can make it just specific to those events. Now, if you go back to August, particularly for the Caribbean – .

Dev Anand Teelucksingh: Actually, yes. Actually, you can do it from the wiki itself, actually. You could turn off – yes, you can do it. If you look – for those who want to try it, after the agenda tab, there is a little drop-down arrow, and if you click on that, you can then toggle all the different things. So if you want to just toggle the at-large and just leave the external events calendar, you can do so.

Heidi Ullrich: Okay, thank you for that. If you go back to August, then you can also see that there is already something in the Caribbean.

Dev Anand Teelucksingh: That's right, yes. I think that's (inaudible).

Heidi Ullrich: So, again, and this is really agenda item 6 as well – if we could get the word out through you to your ALSs, to add regional events that are going on for the next few months prior to Tuesday's call, that would really allow Rod and the ALACs to discuss how there can be greater coordination on a regional basis.

Dev Anand Teelucksingh: Yes, very well. Any other comments? Okay then.

Wolf Ludwig: I think it's all right.

Dev Anand Teelucksingh: All right.

Wolf Ludwig: Falls a kind of silent approval.

Heidi Ullrich: I am hoping. We welcome your ideas as well.

Wolf Ludwig: Well, just in case, I just admit I am a bit tired by now – not because of the call but because of other daily circumstances. And I am not very outspoken at the moment. But at the very moment, I would like to contradict an issue, I will do it.

Heidi Ullrich: Okay, thank you. Also, just – we want to stress to please reach out to your RALO lists and help them with identifying these issues – or these events.

Wolf Ludwig: Yes, but as far as I've seen, our outreach activities, at least for this year, is already mentioned on the respective workspace, Heidi, thankfully, created, and I think this is a relevant, or perhaps important starting point, and as soon as something comes to my mind, be sure I will update it.

Heidi Ullrich: Okay. Thank you very much, and we'll come-- that's agenda item 9 on today's call where we'll be discussing some of the projects in the RALOs.

Dev Anand Teelucksingh: Okay, so we are on item number 4 regarding the establishment of cross-RALO teleconferences. Aims and objectives – understanding days and time for calls. I'm not sure what attendees means – meaning what – only who should attend these calls, I take it.

Heidi Ullrich: Exactly. There was some quarter, for example, Cheryl wanted – was wondering whether she should be on this call, and let me just take a look on – there was a message – she said I could actually even read this to you. We did invite her to the call, but she was hesitant to join because in the past she said that this was really a forum strictly for the RALO Secretariat officers. So Cheryl said that "I don't believe I have any place to be at such a meeting. The chair of ALAC has never been involved in Secretariat meetings, and this has grown from that. That said, I can think of no good reason why, if the regional leadership so desires, that me or someone from the elected officers of the ALAC should or could not attend, indeed. Indeed, I think it would be an enhancement to communication and productivity." So, if asked, and certainly in the future she would be delighted to attend.

Dev Anand Teelucksingh: Okay.

Heidi Ullrich: So that's up to you to decide on who you'd like to be invited to these meetings.

Wolf Ludwig: May I make a suggestion?

Unidentified Participant: Go ahead, Wolf.

Wolf Ludwig: I think, on a regular base, I must admit it's not a lack of appreciation, you can be sure, but I don't see the necessity of the ALAC chair, whoever it is, and I can't imagine that an ALAC chair has a lot of other, more regular commitments compared with ours.

So it says not a regular need but maybe an occasional need on certain issues or subject or problems that may be very useful for reasons of better coordination and early discussions or conflict resolutions – there attendance of the ALAC chair might be very useful.

So I would say don't be very dogmatic but be rather pragmatic and on a case-to-case basis, I would appreciate the presence of the ALAC chair at our call.

Dev Anand Teelucksingh: Sorry, I missed that last – what you said – you request the presence?

Wolf Ludwig: On a pragmatic level, once the agenda items may justify it, it could be very useful to have the ALAC chair at our phone call but not regular, but on a specially identified subject.

Dev Anand Teelucksingh: Okay. Okay, very well, but, I mean, I also agree with Cheryl's statement there. I don't think there is a real need to have the ALAC chair on the Secretariat's teleconference call unless there is a need for it.

Wolf Ludwig: Exactly.

Dev Anand Teelucksingh: So, yeah. Go on, Evan.

Evan Leibovitch: Why not just – look, let's just say the standard people that are invited are the people in the Secretariat's plus other people invited as particular agenda items require. That can be a chair, that can be liaisons, that can be ALS members, it can be basically anything that we need, depending on circumstance.

Dev Anand Teelucksingh: I agree, Evan.

Wolf Ludwig: So do I, Evan – perfect compilation.

Heidi Ullrich: Okay. Yes, well said, Evan, thank you.

Dev Anand Teelucksingh: Okay, so regarding the establishment of cross-RALO teleconferences – are we going to try to do it at exactly the same time each month, or should we have it each month?

Evan Leibovitch: I don't know how often we are going to need these. I mean, there is part of me thinking that unless there's specific regular routine agenda items, I would prefer just to have these on an as-need basis as opposed to laying them down. I mean, having a meeting and putting people out of their way when we really don't have an agenda that requires that much, maybe we already have pretty stress workloads.

Dev Anand Teelucksingh: Indeed.

Wolf Ludwig: I would like to add something – I 99-percent agree with Evan once again.

Evan Leibovitch: I'm waiting for the other 1 percent.

Wolf Ludwig: The 1 percent is a question whether it could be on regular terms be useful to have at least one regular Secretariat call before an ICANN public meeting.

Evan Leibovitch: Ah, that's perfect.

Dev Anand Teelucksingh: Maybe so, yes.

Evan Leibovitch: Maybe that's the regularly scheduled one – say, maybe two to three weeks before each ICANN meeting.

Wolf Ludwig: Right. To at least have and for all the rest, I totally agree this what as you, Evan, have suggested.

Dev Anand Teelucksingh: Okay. All right, so it is the consensus, then, to just have the teleconference – just, say, one month before the actual ICANN general meetings?

Wolf Ludwig: Right.

Dev Anand Teelucksingh: Okay.

Heidi Ullrich: That will be, then, to set the agenda for the actual Secretariat's meeting at the ICANN meeting, among other things?

Dev Anand Teelucksingh: That's right.

Heidi Ullrich: Okay.

Dev Anand Teelucksingh: (inaudible)

Heidi Ullrich: And then – but, if needed, if there is an agenda or something urgent, then we can call others?

Dev Anand Teelucksingh: Indeed, yes, yes. But, I mean, I'm sure that discussion will come out on the Secretariat's meeting list.

Heidi Ullrich: Okay.

Dev Anand Teelucksingh: And then we can establish what time and so forth before.

Wolf Ludwig: I guess this can be easily accomplished once we agreed on necessity of an additional meeting by a short date consultation, we can agree on additional meetings.

Heidi Ullrich: So we could send out a (inaudible) when there is one apart from the regularly scheduled meeting.

Dev Anand Teelucksingh: That's right. And we would agree on the times, yes, exactly.

Heidi Ullrich: Very good.

Dev Anand Teelucksingh: Okay. Item number 6 – ALAC Call With ICANN CEO Rod Beckstrom – and, well,"Regional Events and Issues: How can RALOs and Regional leaders in At-Large work with Rod and relevant staff on a regional basis?"

You know, it's quite (inaudible). I'm not sure what are the (inaudible) of that.

Heidi Ullrich: Sorry, this is Heidi again, and what this – on the ALAC call they held on Tuesday, the agenda, which if you click – let me see if I can put that into the Skype chat – the agenda for the call on the 25th of August with Rod Beckstrom was determined, and in that, or part of the agenda, is this – which is now indicated on the schedule as 6A, 1 through 5. And those are the sub-groups, or the types of meetings that we would like you to ask your RALO – your ALSs – to identify. And then go into the calendar.

Evan Leibovitch: In terms of things that are specific to the ALS, I mean, there is part of me that would like to take the opportunity, perhaps, to use that time to talk to him about RALO issues that may not be things that occur to ALAC.

For instance, things such as doing outreach to ALSs, increasing the number of ALSs, increasing the quality of communications to the general public. These are things that may not be, per se, ALS issues, but they are certainly things that I think that we see on the ground as RALO people that might not always come up at ALAC.

Heidi Ullrich: Okay. For those issues and other topics, the ALAC discussed and agreed that there would be a meeting in Seoul with Rod, a face-to-face, where perhaps broader issues, where there can be greater dialog could take place, but for the meeting on Tuesday, the teleconference on Tuesday, it was more these issues.

Evan Leibovitch: Okay.

Wolf Ludwig: May I ask a question?

Dev Anand Teelucksingh: Go ahead.

Wolf Ludwig: For me, one of the basic questions for – one of the first discussions with this Rod would be the basic role of creating RALOs. It's a basic structural issue regarding the ALAC structure, vis-à-vis, are more or less self-confining ourselves while we have the ALAC structure and the RALOs are more or less welcome extension of ALAC or whether it is considered from the CEO to being some kind of constitutional of the whole ICANN structure. For me, this is still a basic question, and it still keeps the basic contradiction.

Because on the other – on the one hand, we have a number of encouragements to go on, to proceed, and to get to include as many as new ALSs in each RALO as possible. If we are doing this, what I personally would like to do and would see as one of our basic strategic commitments. On the other hand, this will create budget consequences for ICANN. And here, once again, we are in the same budget fiscal year discussion – whether we have the 15 regular ALAC members traveling to ICANN meetings or we have chairs of the Secretariat included; whether we have the liaisons included, et cetera.

And this is, to me, it seems to be a very controversial and conflicting issue because once I say "A," I am rather convinced about B, C, D, E, F, G, et cetera. But ICANN, to me, is communicating very conflicting messages and dilemmas, and I think this is a basic point. I would like to discuss this ICANN CEO what is his idea about this structural enlargement; whether he thinks it's on a political level, important for the development of ICANN or whether he just sees his – or perceives this as a structural detail, which can be won sooner or later decided simply by ALAC.

It is very basic, and I wouldn't like to enter into a discussion with the CEO on details before I haven't had an opportunity to discuss basics and principles.

Heidi Ullrich: Mm-hm, mm-hm.

Wolf Ludwig: Political intentions and political programs or political vision he has in mind. And then after we discuss the basics, for me, it would be much easier to discuss the details.

Dev Anand Teelucksingh: Indeed.

Heidi Ullrich: Okay. I can pass that back on to Cheryl and the ALAC. Gareth is here as well.

Dev Anand Teelucksingh: Sorry, sort of looking at the ALAC call with Rod Beckstrom, just reading the agenda items there, let's see if I have anything to comment on it.

Wolf Ludwig: That's what I was doing before my intervention, and I see a lot of interesting and, of course, relevant points on the suggested agenda, but I couldn't identify the basic questions or the basic issues I just mentioned.

Heidi Ullrich: Yes, I think that during the call and, Gareth, you were on the call on Tuesday, perhaps you can confirm this, but it seems that there was a plan or an agreement that during Seoul, in the face-to-face, there would be more of these issues discussed.

Gareth Shearman: – confirm that – this is Gareth – I confirm that, Heidi, that they were looking for a more focused discussion on Tuesday, and the chance to have a real face-to-face with him in Seoul.

Dev Anand Teelucksingh: Okay, any other comments regarding the ALAC call? Okay.

Heidi Ullrich: Sorry, I was waiting if anybody had any comments, but if I could just make one final comment.

Dev Anand Teelucksingh: Certainly.

Heidi Ullrich: And that is, in addition to meetings that are listed here on the issues that they would like to discuss, you will see under point IV, "Information submitted to governments by At-Large community members with information about ICANN included" – and this includes, for example, if you go back to the agenda for the call with Rod, there is a reference, and that is item 2.4 – this is something that Cheryl added where she used some information directly from ICANN that she gave to the Australian government at a function, at an event, that she attended, and this is also a subject that she wanted RALOs to ask their ALSs – is if they have been able to use any ICANN information that would be of interest to Rod to hear this.

Dev Anand Teelucksingh: I see.

Wolf Ludwig: I have another comment regarding this important point. I think, as next European dialog on Internet governance in Geneva. This is a multi-stakeholder event. Actually, this is organized by the Swiss government and the European Broadcasting Union, and we, from EURALO, are in close consultation with at least, let's say, three government representatives in the GAC (ph), and we have regular consultative meetings four times a year on the Swiss level – these are our government representatives, and so this is already more or less regularly institutionalized, and it's happening. And this flow of information with feedback, et cetera, this is already working. And I find this rather constructive.

Heidi Ullrich: That's very useful, Wolf. Could you add that to the calendar or at least send that information to me, and I'll add that. That's very useful.

Wolf Ludwig: Okay, may I send a short, five to seven-line description what is already happening since the World Summit on the Information Society, which is the Swiss Civil Society and the Swiss government. This is working for years now.

Heidi Ullrich: Okay, that's (inaudible). But also, if you could just let me know the dates where you had those meetings and the upcoming ones as well. That would be useful.

Wolf Ludwig: Okay, great. I'll do it.

Dev Anand Teelucksingh: Okay, so – okay, I believe that covers item number 6 – ALAC call to the ICANN CEO. Item 7 refers to the Secretariat proposals for improvements, which is a spreadsheet.

Heidi Ullrich: Yes, this spreadsheet is somewhat old now, out of date. And I have had the opportunity to speak with a few of you about this already, and I'm wondering how you would like to update this.

So, for example, in a call I had with Evan and Darlene some time ago, there was agreement that there should be at least some columns added to this document where people who are actually working on this, or people who are being held responsible for the implementation of these items be added, but also one that has some deadlines on it.

Evan Leibovitch: Some issues are ongoing and some definitely should have an end date.

Heidi Ullrich: Exactly, okay.

Dev Anand Teelucksingh: Well, this should be – to me, this should be a Google spreadsheet.

Heidi Ullrich: Exactly, that was another issue I wanted to ask about. So we can make that into a Google spreadsheet so you can – it will be something like the current Policy Advice Development Schedule.

Dev Anand Teelucksingh: That's right, mm-hm.

Heidi Ullrich: Okay, that's fantastic. And then I'm just wondering – once we have that set up, would you like this to be something that we can discuss on the lists, or would you want to divide into small groups and work on some of these issues? There are – if you take a look at the document, there are four parts to this document. And would it be useful to divide yourselves into groups, or would you want to do it as a whole?

Dev Anand Teelucksingh: Well, I mean, we are a small group, as it is. I don't know how much subdividing we could really do. If anything, all we (inaudible) every single subgroup. I am tempted to say keep everybody in the loop, because all of these things affect our work. So I'm tempted to say, you know, keeping it simple and just use – you know, if there is so much discussion on one particularly topic that requires its own, you know, separate conversation to take place off list then, you know, then you could reactivate on an ad hoc basis. That's just my opinion.

Wolf Ludwig: I 100-percent agree.

Dev Anand Teelucksingh: Again, keep this – just keep it simple.

Heidi Ullrich: Okay, so what we could do is I'll incorporate this into a Google document, and then we'll put out onto the lists, and we might just maybe work our way through each of the sections, maybe one per week or something?

Dev Anand Teelucksingh: Do you mean, Part A, Part B, Part C?

Heidi Ullrich: Exactly.

Dev Anand Teelucksingh: Okay, I have no objection to that.

Heidi Ullrich: Anybody else have any comments on that suggestion?

Evan Leibovitch: I'm okay.

Unidentified Participant: No.

Heidi Ullrich: Okay.

Dev Anand Teelucksingh: Okay, so – very well. The Secretariat meeting in Seoul – item number 8, initial planning.

Heidi Ullrich: Yes, this is just, again, to highlight – I've been doing this for all of your calls in the last week. Just please start filling in your suggestions, not only for the Secretariat's meeting but also for the other meetings that will be taking place in Seoul – policy issues you'd like to have discussed; three things, et cetera. And also any RALO meetings, special sessions that you would like to have physically take place in Seoul, we need to know that by the 1st of September. Our deadline is – to submit our meeting forms is the 2nd of September.

Evan Leibovitch: Okay.

Dev Anand Teelucksingh: Okay.

Heidi Ullrich: Okay? So I know EURALO and APRALO have already confirmed they will be holding special sessions, but we need to hear from the rest of you as well.

Evan Leibovitch: EURALO is going to have enough people there to have a special session?

Heidi Ullrich: It will be what we did in Sydney where the people that are there, some of the ALAC members, et cetera, and then we dial out, just like a regular teleconference.

Evan Leibovitch: Ah, okay.

Dev Anand Teelucksingh: Oh, I see.

Heidi Ullrich: That was actually very useful – that was Dessi's initiative during Sydney, and it was very, very productive, actually. Wolf called in at 4 a.m. his time.

Evan Leibovitch: Okay.

Wolf Ludwig: Yeah, and next time it's Dessi as the Secretariat who will not be able to come to Seoul. And so for to keep – so EURALO officers and all the board members as included as possible has proved to be extremely helpful.

Dev Anand Teelucksingh: Okay. Sorry, I was just looking – scrolling down to the Seoul schedule there. Very well. And Item 9, our final item on the agenda – RALO project updates.

Heidi Ullrich: Yes. And you could – if I could ask everyone to go back to the main Secretariat workspace, please. And if you scroll down to the bottom of the page, you will see a section on two kinds of projects. One are cross-RALO projects, and those – the only one currently there is the Secretariat's Proposals for Improvements. So I'll add – once I have the Goggle document, I'll add that link there. And then immediately underneath, we have RALO projects, and Highlights of Current Activities Within the Regions, and this is something that, again, I took away from the Sydney Secretariat meeting where there was a lot of positive feedback on the various activities going on in the RALOs, and how other RALOs may be able to use them and bring up best practice.

So I have updated what has been going on in some of the RALOs, and you'll see that under AFRALO, they've just agreed to a list – a document to discuss what kind of participation in available in AFRALO and setting out some standards for that.

And under EURALO, I've added some links to the EURALO wiki on their current activities and particularly under the EURALO regional events. If you could take a look at that, and I'll put that in the Skype chat. And this is something that, actually, Wolf requested – his initiative on highlighting upcoming regional events just with a very basic description, adding some URLs and also adding boxes where people – ALSs who are going to be at these meetings can put their names in so Wolf – or the organizers, can then contact them to plan RALO events at these meetings.

Dev Anand Teelucksingh: I see.

Heidi Ullrich: And, again, if you would like – if your RALO would like to have something like this, I am very happy to create a wiki for you.

Dev Anand Teelucksingh: Oh, yes, because of all – just a comment, I mean, obviously, then what could then happen is that this would then be linked to the calendar, obviously, with individual links for each event, so you could find out more information and see what ALSs will be there, et cetera, et cetera.

Heidi Ullrich: So, let's see, we have NARALO and APRALO represented on this call. Would you like these Wikis or would you like to speak to your ALSs first?

Evan Leibovitch: As far as NARALO is concerned, I don't know if we need a new wiki. It's probably worth asking, but, I mean, frankly, in terms of the existing Web pages and things like that, we've been served okay by what we have.

Heidi Ullrich: Okay.

Evan Leibovitch: I can ask around.

Wolf Ludwig: Just to respond to Evan, this is part of the regular – this is now, in the meantime, since it's about 10 days part of the regular EURALO wiki. It's a sub-item on our wiki.

Dev Anand Teelucksingh: Right, yes.

Wolf Ludwig: But it gives everybody who is not regularly following closely about our activities or who is not so much involved, to see what is our schedule for the next couple of weeks or months, and what we actually do in our region. And I think it should be part of the regional working wiki or working tool.

Dev Anand Teelucksingh: For each RALO, yes, okay, I agree with that, yes.

Heidi Ullrich: So in terms of APRALO, Andreas and Dev, I have put this queue on the agenda for today's meeting so you can ask the ALSs then.

Dev Anand Teelucksingh: Very well. Any other items regarding the – lost the agenda – ?

Heidi Ullrich: Nothing else on the agenda. Just for those who are interested, the other EURALO project is a EURALO flyer that we are just finalizing, and this is something that is going to actually be used in outreach events for networking to get new ALSs, and the idea is that it's going to be slipped into the existing brochure from At-Large. So it's just going to be a two-sided, small piece of paper that has some basic information specific to EURALO. And if EURALO would like something like this as well, we could work on that together.

Dev Anand Teelucksingh: But – I think, no, definitely, a flyer, because, I mean, I'm thinking the flyer can be just customized. I mean, because it's a very essentially kind of the same information – what is ICANN, you know?

Heidi Ullrich: Yes, it's actually –

Dev Anand Teelucksingh: I have that.

Heidi Ullrich: – specific to EURALO. This other one.

Dev Anand Teelucksingh: These are referring to the PDFs, the EURALO flyers, right, correct?

Heidi Ullrich: If you click on the EURALO link –

Dev Anand Teelucksingh: Yes.

Heidi Ullrich: – the one that's on the agenda for the – under "EURALO flyer." It's not the PDF. That's the current At-Large brochure. That's the one where this flyer for EURALO is going to be –

Dev Anand Teelucksingh: I get you, all right, I understand it, sorry.

Heidi Ullrich: Right. So version 4 is the current version.

Wolf Ludwig: May I comment on this?

Dev Anand Teelucksingh: Certainly, yes. Certainly, go ahead, Wolf.

Wolf Ludwig: Our idea was everybody is talking about globalization and a global village, et cetera, but let me put it this way – Europeans are compared to other regions of the world very tribal people referring to the national or historical cultures, languages, et cetera, and everything is multi-, multi-, multi-, multi-, in Europe. And for non-Europeans, sometimes difficult to perceive the differences among Eastern and Northern Europe, Western and Eastern Europe, et cetera, et cetera.

And there are some special concerns, let me say, let's take the example of privacy. Privacy for European people is very, very important and even becomes more important – there any governmental interference on the 'net or in 'net political issues. And so we tried to approach European audiences, and I am talking in plural – audience, European audiences, and we would like to get them where they are.

And, therefore, results I comply, which is quite good for on the global level does not necessarily meet all the feelings of European-thinking people or potential civil society groups interested in Internet, ICANN, or IHF (ph) interrelated issues.

It's not necessarily to create an affluent diversity of publications but to pinpoint our messages to target groups as opposed to thinking about it.

Dev Anand Teelucksingh: Okay. Well, one thing I just wanted to mention as a possible example for future outreach – next month is something called Software Freedom Day, which is held on the 3rd September – the third Saturday in September, sorry. And usually they have teams all around the world who are organizing their local Software Freedom Day events, which talk about free and open source software.

I just posted a link to the map, which shows the various teams that are organizing themselves. So I'll probably bring it up at our RALO conference, but it might be also useful for the regions to see what possibly these are either ALSs that could be willing to join EURALO or at least get new members into your existing ALS to help with ICANN-related issues – to discuss the issues.

Wolf Ludwig: Thanks for the information, and I am glad to tell you that we have actually very close links between our Secretariat, which was assumed by Dessi, and her husband is a former president of the Free Software Foundation of Europe.

Dev Anand Teelucksingh: Oh, okay.

Wolf Ludwig: So we have almost family relations to the Free Software Movement, and I am sure that Dessi will closely follow up any opportunity, which is coming up out of the Free Software Movement in Europe.

But I agree, in principle. If you really want to broaden our impact, we have to meet all these movements, and there are plenty of these 'net related movements in Europe. We have plenty of public interest initiatives, freedom of expression, or whatever, and there are so many groups around in Europe, and we have to systematically, really systematically, get in touch with them and to encourage them to get involved in ICANN issues and to apply for becoming a regular certified ALS.

If we would have the capacity to do this on a professional and systemized way, I would like to say we could be theoretically possible to double the number of certified or applied ALSs within two or three years.

Dev Anand Teelucksingh: Yes. Because I think it's something like close to 1,000 teams are now registered for Software Freedom Day for this year. I mean, it's been growing. So –

Heidi Ullrich: Yes, this is very useful.

Dev Anand Teelucksingh: Sorry, go ahead, Heidi, sorry.

Heidi Ullrich: Yes, Evan and Gareth, I see, just clicking a few in Canada and the U.S. that there are several Linux users' groups, like the Toronto one that is going to be – or that will be a member shortly.

Evan Leibovitch: Yes, that's not a coincidence.

Wolf Ludwig: (inaudible), Evan.

Evan Leibovitch: Actually, when the people come in from there, they are actually very good people.

Heidi Ullrich: Very good.

Wolf Ludwig: Just one more comment – I am discussing with Heidi since, I think, a couple of months, there are so many consumer groups in Europe. Europe is full of consumer organizations because consumer issues became one of the most important challenges among Internet users, and if we want to succeed to systematically get in contact, in touch, with these groups and to sensitize them for Internet and ICANN issues, the Internet consumer groups could be one of the most politically most important elements for the EURALO enlargement. And I am happy that I've (inaudible) in this point with Heidi.

Heidi Ullrich: I have to get –

Wolf Ludwig: I think it's a very important strategic consideration – there are the people out there in our regions who are most probably the most easy to get involved and to get convinced about the necessity to take part in ICANN or At-Large or the RALOs.

Dev Anand Teelucksingh: Indeed, yes. Okay, so any other items? Any other contributions?

Okay, well, I guess, then, we'll close this meeting then.

Heidi Ullrich: Thank you very much.

Evan Leibovitch: Alrighty then.

Heidi Ullrich: So I will send out the summary and minutes of this meeting to everyone.

Dev Anand Teelucksingh: Okay, thanks, Heidi.

Heidi Ullrich: Thanks very much for your time.

Evan Leibovitch: Okay, thanks. Bye, everyone.

Wolf Ludwig: Bye-bye.