Page History

  Terri Agnew:Dear all, Welcome to the At-Large Ad-hoc WG on the Transition of US Government Stewardship of the IANA Function on Tuesday, 23 December 2014 at 19:00 UTC

  Terri Agnew:meeting page: https://community.icann.org/x/AYkQAw

  Evan Leibovitch:Happy holidays everyone.

  Seun Ojedeji:Hello everyone

  Gordon Chillcott:Same to you, Evan

  Roberto Gaetano:Hi all. I have to leave at 19:30 UTC sharp

  Evan Leibovitch:Acronym fun: IANA Transition -> I Am Not A Transition

  Terri Agnew:@Roberto, thank you for letting us know

  Fatima Cambronero:hello everyone

  Evan Leibovitch:Hola!

  Glenn McKnight:Howdy

  Christopher Wilkinson:Good evening everyone, CW

  Fatima Cambronero:hola! :)

  Terri Agnew:Action item’s 16 December 2014: https://community.icann.org/x/zIMQAw

  Terri Agnew:Consolidated RIR IANA Stewardship Proposal Team (CRISP Team): https://www.nro.net/nro-and-internet-governance/iana-oversight/consolidated-rir-iana-stewardship-proposal-team-crisp-team

  Loris Taylor:Are the CRISP team in the process of consolidating proposals yet?

  Loris Taylor:Is the

  Olivier Crepin-Leblond:Yes they are in theory supposed to do that

  Olivier Crepin-Leblond:they take the 5 RIR proposals & need to make a consolidated proposal out of it

  Terri Agnew:Welcome Thomas Lowenhaupt

  Terri Agnew:At-Large Ad-hoc WG on the Transition of US Government Stewardship of the IANA Function: https://community.icann.org/x/OYThAg

  Terri Agnew:Last Call for comments on IETF Transition proposal: http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/cwg-stewardship/2014-November/000721.html

  Olivier Crepin-Leblond:https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ianaplan-icg-response/    --- Version of the reponse by IETf

  Evan Leibovitch:Proposal to put the US Feteral Trade Commission in charge of IANA floated in Washington: http://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/technology/227726-icanns-number-is-up

  Evan Leibovitch:(the same group that screwd up Net Neutrality there)

  Seun Ojedeji:was that formerly pasted?

  Evan Leibovitch:Sorry, not FTC, FCC

  Olivier Crepin-Leblond:lovely! :-)

  Olivier Crepin-Leblond:Federal Communication COmmission yes

  Seun Ojedeji:i mean formerly posted during public comment

  Terri Agnew:Welcome Carlton Samuels

  Carlton Samuels:Howdy all

  Evan Leibovitch:The US congress noises suggest a direct potenbtial for domain indsutry capture

  Seun Ojedeji:@Alan here is the first requirement: Support and enhance the multistakeholder model

  Seun Ojedeji:http://www.ntia.doc.gov/press-release/2014/ntia-announces-intent-transition-key-internet-domain-name-functions

  Loris Taylor:Interesting blog.

  Christopher Wilkinson:not muted

  Christopher Wilkinson:usual problem.

  Terri Agnew:@Christopher we are unable to hear you, please let us know if you prefer a dial out

  Terri Agnew:At-Large Cross Community Working Group (CWG) on Naming Related Functions Draft Transition Proposal Workspace: https://community.icann.org/x/YoEHAw

  Roberto Gaetano:Sorry, leaving

  Terri Agnew:goodbye Roberto

  Alan Greenberg:Donuts and M&M are Registries.

  Olivier Crepin-Leblond:Bye Roberto - please check the recording later

  Evan Leibovitch:@CW: Comnpanies such a M+M and Donuts are certainly registry operators amongst new applicants.

  Carlton Samuels:@Alan: Re Donuts + Mind + Machines. Thanks. Was about to put that fact in the chat

  Carlton Samuels:@Alan:  We must have general agreement on the end game though

  Alan Greenberg:The 4 principles I think are the MAIN part of our end-point.

  Evan Leibovitch:Question: What is ICANN doing to counter the horribly-informed initiatives coming out of the US congress? Is there a role to play in rebutting this from outside ICANN management?

  Evan Leibovitch:If we can't deflect that sufficiently the rest is moot.

  Olivier Crepin-Leblond:When I asked Larry Strickling about this, a few months ago, and he said that was his business, not the CWG's business

  Seun Ojedeji:thats what i thought too

  Carlton Samuels:@Alan: Please reiterate the principles again so all is clear

  Sivasubramanian M:I am sorry Alan, I disagree with the idea of creation of a ContractCo and tend to agree with the observations of the Board on the dangers of creating a new entity, the issues relating to the threats of capture etc related to the new entiry

  Seun Ojedeji:@Alan what details needs to be fleshed out? ours or others?

  Alan Greenberg:•          IANA responsibility awarded to ICANN;•              New Board accountability to ensure that multistakeholder community can initiate action if dissatisfied with IANA performance;• Independent Appeal process to address perceived errors.•    Doomsday capability to reassign responsibility if all else fails

  Alan Greenberg:@Siva, you are agreeing with me . Not sure whu you are saying yoo are sorry.

  Sivasubramanian M:If there is someway by which ICANN could simply write to NTIA and say it will CONTINUE to perform the IANA functions with reaffirmed commitments - commitments to the Community instead of to NTIA, then we don't need the ContractCo, but merely a mechanism for stronger accountability, perhpas including the clause to recall the entire Board as Google has proposed.

  Sivasubramanian M:Good to know Alan..

  Carlton Samuels:@ALL: So are we clear?  The principles must be agreed.  And the push is to ensure MOST of these make it into the CWG proposal.  When we see the Principle enunciated, we then double down on the details.  So we MUST  have the details ready to push and insert in whole  or part

  Sivasubramanian M:I didn't hear clearly, I thought you were still going ahead with an emphasis on creation of ContractCo

  Le-Marie Thompson:can the process be stopped in the midst of public comment?  Would that put out a perception that the request was disingenuous.

  Sivasubramanian M:I am happy, very happy to agree with the Board, happy to agree with Google.

  Sivasubramanian M:Google's proposal seems to have gathered  various thoughts that stood out of stream in all the discussions and summarized in a single document, that apart, it makes great sense

  Seun Ojedeji:+1 SM

  Loris Taylor:Shepherding the proposal through the process is important especially in a landscape that is becoming so fluid.  What areas are we willing to compromise on?

  Christopher Wilkinson:Doomsday? I think that before we get there, the governments, among others will have stepped in. An outcome to be absolutely avoided.

  Alan Greenberg:But as of today, there are MANY other proposals that should be treated equitably *IF* they are not discarded by the CWG.

  Seun Ojedeji:Agree @Olivier

  Carlton Samuels:@OCL: That is why we work from Principles.  The details that are problematic first.  New Board Accountability and the mechanisms with respect to IANA must be precise and VERY clear

  Olivier Crepin-Leblond:@Calrton: but is this going to be the work of the Accountability CCWG?

  Glenn McKnight:The  composition of the independent  appeal process  will need to be well developed and proven fair processs

  Carlton Samuels:@Seun: The Doomsday Capability is actually the easiest to determine; it an excision from ICANN. And that is the Contract Co, meaning you go back to the currrent arrangement!

  Olivier Crepin-Leblond:@Carlton: excision - how?

  Seun Ojedeji:@Carlton hmm...not contract co

  Carlton Samuels:@OCL: Yes, but we need the ALAC's perspective of that Accountability as strawman. And excision means cutting away the transferred IANA functions!

  Olivier Crepin-Leblond:@Carlton - are you saying this WG should be preparing the ground for our Accountability WG delegates?

  Carlton Samuels:@OCL: Absolutely!  Because that is where we will argue our position!

  Carlton Samuels:@Seun: So let's extend the phrase and instead of 'Contract Co' we say 'contracting arrangements with external oversight'.

  Carlton Samuels:@OCL: Can't speak

  Carlton Samuels:In a meeting

  Heidi Ullrich:@Olivier, is that an AI?

  Heidi Ullrich:please state it as you would like it recorded

  Glenn McKnight:looking up alterative working 

  Carlton Samuels:Noooooo!  Not Separability!

  Evan Leibovitch:"Armageddon"

  Evan Leibovitch:?

  Glenn McKnight:Evan that is funny

  Carlton Samuels:They will jsut beat the hell outta yeh!

  Alan Greenberg:Our :doomsday" proposal is a requirement that ICANN divest itself of IANA. The other non-contract-co" use differnet words and slightly di

  Seun Ojedeji:severability?

  Evan Leibovitch:"last resort"?

  Carlton Samuels:@Evan: Armageddon could work. LOLOL

  Alan Greenberg:...different mechanisms.

  Alan Greenberg:@Seun, no, SEVERALBILITY in SSAC parlance is something else altogether.

  Christopher Wilkinson:evan+1: Last resort

  Carlton Samuels:"Divestment of IANA Functions"

  Evan Leibovitch:"Nuclear option"

  Christopher Wilkinson:I shall leave the call. Busy evening. Good night. CW

  Carlton Samuels:Good night Chris.

  Terri Agnew:goodbye Christopher

  Olivier Crepin-Leblond:@christopher: thanks

  Alan Greenberg:"nuclear option" has previously been used for something else - removing the entire Board.

  Carlton Samuels:We need a benign-sounding word or phrase to do it. Where's my CIA phrasebook when I need it!

  Evan Leibovitch:"Action of last resort" isn't quite as charged but does convey the serios and final nature of it.

  Carlton Samuels:@Alan: Removing the whole Board is not possible under California law. That's what came of that proposal you mentioned. And that had a lot of pull on the corporate types. Delaware for example went up to Code Red with that!

  Carlton Samuels:Federal law can promote interstate commerce but it cannot outlaw states right to install mechanisms since companies are registered at state level

  Alan Greenberg:@Evan - good

  Alan Greenberg:Three communities do not have to act together. That is "severability.

  Carlton Samuels:@Seun: Oversight was on entire funtion, that is true. Go to that kind of arrangment and you deflect a lot of inconsistencies

  Carlton Samuels:for money, for talent for skills...and for power

  Carlton Samuels:Good catch!

  Alan Greenberg:@Seun, that is implicit in ICANN accepting the responsibility from the NTIA

  Alan Greenberg:The other two groups are requiring MoUs

  Carlton Samuels:@All: I really think this 'last resort' priority is mistaken and here's why. The ALAC proposal essentailly says take the keys to the car and give it to ICANN and we trust we can develop accountability mechanisms that ensure multi-stakeholder oversight that is effective and authoritative.

  Carlton Samuels:We are struggling with the meaning of 'authoritattive' in this context.  We mean to say authoritative means 'enforceable in the first instance' so we dont go to the 'doomsday' option.

  Sivasubramanian M:There was NTIA, so a contract was necessary. Without an NTIA, the process is redundant. Agree that it leaves the question of accountability to be strenthened

  Sivasubramanian M:In place of the contract we can have an extensive AoC  - to the Cross Community

  Seun Ojedeji:okay maybe we just don't take it further

  Seun Ojedeji:i agree with you

  Sivasubramanian M:with enhanced balance and a stronger ATR framework

  Sivasubramanian M:and a strengthened review process, strengthened several fold

  Sivasubramanian M:This pre-IANA transition

  Carlton Samuels:In MY Most Humble Opinion, the accountability mechanisms are the Achilles hell of the ALAC proposal. And while we might get our Principles adopted, the fight is going to be the details of the accountability framework in the event ICANN is drafted to accept the transferred functions.

  Sivasubramanian M:Post IANA transition we could think of an expanded framework

  Terri Agnew:• Seat Allocation of MRT: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1l14hNILare9USehPaYBGaE5yy8tbjSwrRbAa9PHvmJ0/edit#gid=18156741

  Seun Ojedeji:couple of weeks?

  Seun Ojedeji:we don't have couple of weeks ;)

  Seun Ojedeji:Joking :-)

  Alan Greenberg:Preferred? I want 50% of the seats!   What I can defend is something else, and I believe that the research/discussion I suggested is paramount to addressing that.

  Fatima Cambronero:5 seats with regional diversity + knowledge of IANA functions

  Evan Leibovitch:Note going forward: "MRT" is also the acronym for the Singapore Metro.

  Heidi Ullrich:Hi All, Time- Check - 10 mins to the end of the scheduled call.

  Alan Greenberg:@Evan, probably easier to answer with your definition.

  Terri Agnew:Update on RFP4 activities:  https://community.icann.org/x/EyrxAg

  Seun Ojedeji:@Fatima if we ask 5 then others may follow suit

  Seun Ojedeji:however we may be 5 with 2 voting rights?

  Loris Taylor:Definitely, ALAC representation on the MRT.  At what point does the MRT become unwieldy?  Or too large?

  Seun Ojedeji:lost audio

  Fatima Cambronero:@Seun, maybe. But we can ask all that we want, then we can change...

  Carlton Samuels:Have to run

  Carlton Samuels:Bye all

  Fatima Cambronero:bye Carlton

  Terri Agnew:goodbye Carlton

  Heidi Ullrich:Hi All, 5 mins to to the end of the call

  Loris Taylor:The audio is very bad.

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr:very bad audio

  Terri Agnew:@Seun, we are dialing back out toy ou

  Seun Ojedeji:I think we can proceed with the timeline but just indicate the 2 options replacement for contract co in the timeline

  Fatima Cambronero:agree @Seun

  Heidi Ullrich:2 minutes to go in scheduled time

  Olivier Crepin-Leblond:https://community.icann.org/x/AYkQAw

  Seun Ojedeji:its actually in the email sent by Eduardo

  Terri Agnew:https://community.icann.org/x/FSrxAg

  Olivier Crepin-Leblond:I'll send out a message to the mailing list that will have all details in one message & will ask the question

  Terri Agnew:CWG-RFP5 - NTIA Requirements

  Seun Ojedeji:1 thing i like to clarify about our timeline, if we happen to have something are we going to be sending it accross to RFP4?

  Olivier Crepin-Leblond:@seun: of course if we build the timeline we are not doing it for fun - it's to be sent to RFP4

  Fatima Cambronero:ohhh :)

  Seun Ojedeji:Okay because you know we are holding on with our proposal hence the reason for my question

  Sivasubramanian M:I am not able to scroll all the way to the beginning.

  Terri Agnew:CCWG Accountability: https://community.icann.org/x/IIMHAw

  Alan Greenberg:Lost Seun - cannot understand

  Terri Agnew:@Sivasubramanian, the full chat will be available on agenda page shortly after end of call

  Seun Ojedeji:Election is coming up folks

  Seun Ojedeji:there may be no transition if this gets prolonged

  Terri Agnew: meeting page: https://community.icann.org/x/AYkQAw

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr:sean. I believe to your 1st question all the reps to the CCWG are I believe in this WG

  Seun Ojedeji:oh...okay great

  Fatima Cambronero:@Seun, meeting of the CCWG or CWG?

  Seun Ojedeji:CWG

  Fatima Cambronero:Grace told me that they are not planning any meeting in Singapore of the CWG

  Evan Leibovitch:Happy holidays, everyone.

  Loris Taylor:Thank you very much Olivier and ICANN staff. 

  Fatima Cambronero:thanks @Sabrina!

  Heidi Ullrich:Happy Holidays!

  Fatima Cambronero:no :)

  Seun Ojedeji:you have all the reds :)

  Heidi Ullrich:Thanks, All!!

  Heidi Ullrich::)

  Fatima Cambronero:;)

  Sivasubramanian M:Happy Holidays everyone

  Gordon Chillcott:All the Best of the Season !\

  Heidi Ullrich:Thanks for caring!

  Sivasubramanian M:Thanks Terri

  Seun Ojedeji:thanks a lot

  Alan Greenberg:Good to know where we stand.  Good holiday season to all.

  Alan Greenberg:When both Cheryl and I say we are being pushed to far, there is a message there!

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr:Seasons Greetings to you all ...

  Heidi Ullrich:Thanks!

  Seun Ojedeji:Yay!

  Alan Greenberg:too

  Seun Ojedeji:thanks

  Seun Ojedeji:goodnight

  Sivasubramanian M:Thank you all

  Fatima Cambronero:thanks @Olivier, @All. Happy Holidays! bye