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GISELLA GRUBER:                  I'd like to welcome everyone to today's LACRALO working group, on Friday the 14th of December at 2200 UTC. On the Spanish channel, we have Sergio Salinas Porto, Natalia Enciso, Antonio Medina Gomez, Juan Manuel Rojas, and Sylvia Herlein Leite. On the English channel, we have Dev Anand Teelucksingh, and apologies, we also have Jose Arce on the Spanish channel.

                                                We have, from staff, Silvia Vivanco and myself, Gisella Gruber. Our interpreters this evening are [NAMES INAUDIBLE 00:00:48]. If I could also please remind everyone to state their names when speaking, not only for transcript purposes, but also to allow the interpreters to identify the speakers on the other language channel. I hope I haven't left anyone off the role call, and over to you, Jose Arce and Antonio Medina. Thank you.

ANTONIO MEDINA:               Thank you very much, Gisella. I would like to quickly explain that I had a problem. I was in a building, and I had communication problems with my cellphone, and now I'm out of that building. I'm at a higher floor, I'm in another office. I have some documents and with my cellphone, so I don't have my computer in front of me. I cannot follow the agenda, so could you please, Jose Arce, help me in reading the agenda and to proceed with the follow-up of these items on the agenda. While we are developing this agenda, I will do the corresponding intervention. Thank you very much.

JOSE ARCE:                             Thank you very much, Antonio. The first item on the agenda, here we have a draft with a list of the members, and we have the objectives of the group. I would like to highlight that, get the certain circumstances. This group was not able to move forward so quickly, so we're on the very first item.

                                                The first item, as I said before, is objectives of the group, but Antonio, before I start with point number one, I would like just to be able to plan the dates for this working group. I would like to know your availability to see if you can work during the rest of the month in January, because we are quite delayed in our activities, and that would be something very important. I would like to define that right now.

ANTONIO MEDINA:               In terms of regarding your question, well, we have been working in a topic that is quite important for LACRALO that generates lots of expectations and it's very important. This has to do with LACRALO and its future. We have focused on research about administrative information, which is current and relevant, that could be applied to LACRALO as an organization. In that respect, we have found the concept of a corporate government or corporate governance.

                                                We have carried out a very deep research, and we have researched some organizations, which are applying these rules of corporate governance. As I explained before, I have just sent a document to Silvia Vivanco for her to post it on the AC room, so that you can read it, and I would like to recommend or suggest that we get involved with a concept, because these are some ideas that we might implement quickly in LACRALO, so as to be able to have a better organization in the future.

                                                I would also like to add something to your second question, or to the second part of your question. Evidently, these two months have been very busy for us, due to a lot of activities that we are carrying out. As you know, we have the governance forum in Bogota. We participated remotely, and then we participated in the IGF and Baku, so we have been very focused on the activities in Dubai with the meeting being held there in the WCIT.

                                                I would like to present my excuse, because the deliverables that were supposed to be delivered were not delivered, but we keep on working, and will be working in December and January, so that we can have a final document or a more elaborate document, so that we can contribute to LACRALO. Jose, could you please go on?

JOSE ARCE:                             I see Fatima. Fatima has her hand up. Fatima, you have the floor.

ATONIO MEDINA:                  Fatima, you have the floor.

FATIMA CAMBRONERO:        Thank you very much. Antonio, I think that Jose's question is more concrete, in terms of your time availability, in terms of the remaining months and how we're going to manage, because we have a lot of time, wasted a lot of time. We have done nothing, and the other groups have already delivered their response. We need to have a response at the end of December. We have now spent 26 minutes in this call, and we still do not have the objectives of this working group, not even a draft of those objectives.

                                                The document I saw that you sent, regarding the corporate governance, has nothing to do with the work of our working group and the governance working group. I know that you have many problems and difficulties to manage your time and the meetings, but if you agree, I would like to propose that Jose Arce be the coordinator of this group, so that we can have something more concrete.

                                                It was also discussed here in this group, about the fact of reviewing the MOU and the [INAUDIBLE [00:07:58], and we were not able to do these, because we are running out of time. I would like to know what you think about these and what you think about the rest of the agenda. Thank you.

ANTONIO MEDINA:               Is there any other questions in this regard?

JOSE ARCE:                             Yes, I see Sergio Salinas Porto. He has his hand up. Sergio, you have the floor.

SERGIO SALINAS PORTO:      Thank you very much, Antonio. I'm going to put my hand down, but I will continue speaking. I would like to say that I do agree with something that Fatima said. I think that we can work together. We need to achieve the fact that our colleagues in [INAUDIBLE [00:08:54] assumed their responsibilities and are involved in the future. Replacing one colleague to put someone else – well, we are in a hurry and we have activities to fulfill.

                                                Let's make an effort all together, and let's help Antonio to work. If Antonio needs help, he will request that help. We'll need to adapt, but it is not just a question of replacing someone who has responsibilities. I propose the following. We all have the will to work and finish our activities with the final document, drafted by our working group, so let's start working at once. Antonio should keep going, being the coordinator. Let's start writing something, a draft to start working, and let's discuss this draft. We can do that in a week or in a week and a half, and that will help us to finish the activities of our work. Thank you very much.

JOSE ARCE:                             Antonio, I would like to request the floor.

ANTONIO MEDINA:               Jose, you have the floor.

JOSE ARCE:                             Well, my question Fatima was explaining, I asked you about your work availability because, to tell you the truth, this is my point of view. There was a delay in our working group, and we have a shared [INAUDIBLE [00:10:44], but we need to get a response a soon as possible. I would like to know, and I would like to define in this meeting who will be willing to work in the following weeks, the rest of December and January, just to get to February with almost final work.

                                                If there is anyone who cannot participate in December and who goes on holiday in January, well, we should need to pay attention to this to move aside and leave places to other people who would like to work. That was my question. I ask you, Antonio, but this question also goes to all the other members of the group.

                                                I need to have a strong working group, with no many members, just to be able to move forward and go out of this phase. Antonio, that was my question. What is your available time in December, and how much time would you be able to devote to this working group, during December and January? That was my question.

ANTONIO MEDINA:               Thank you, Jose. Is there any other question before answering Jose's question?

JOSE ARCE:                             Antonio, Fatima has her hand up.

ANTONIO MEDINA:               Fatima, you have the floor.

FATIMA CAMBRONERO:        Please, I don't want you to misunderstand this. I know that you have many personal problems, so I would like to relieve you from working so much, but the idea is to move forward and to have a final response. We need to work in groups, but how many people will be involved? Six? Five? Six people? We are reaching the end of the deadline, and we are not having a response. We are going to just move away from the final objective or the main objective of this working group. That was my question.

ANTONIO MEDINA:               Is there any other questions?

JOSE ARCE:                             No, Antonio. You have the floor.

ANTONIO MEDINA:               Thank you very much. Well, listening to Jose's suggestions about knowing my commitment as the group coordinator for the rest of December and January, I would say that I will be available to keep on being the coordinator of this working group. Indeed, I am still involved with that role. Secondly, I would like to refer to the document that I sent to you. Fatima mentions that we need to review the MOU on the [INAUDIBLE [00:13:50] and some other procedures that we have in LACRALO.

                                                I would like to emphasize the fact that all that she mentions has to do with corporate governance, but we are not going away or moving away from the objective. This is something very important. It is important to put into practice those concepts for the benefit of LACRALO, so as to be able to generate a document and something that goes beyond that, and that can be implemented in LACRALO.

                                                I would like also to refer to something which is very important. This is a working group. I expected to be the coordinator of this working group, so I consider that, from that moment on, we have a secretary and I would request your collaboration and support, so I will assign some tasks to the members, so that we all together can move forward and achieve a final response as a group in LACRALO.

JOSE ARCE:                             Antonio, may I have the floor?

ANTONIO MEDINA:               Jose, you have the floor.

JOSE ARCE:                             I would like to formally start with the agenda, and the first item on this agenda is the work objectives. I would like you to tell us the objectives of this working group, so as to be able to define the framework of this working group.

ANTONIO MEDINA:               Once again, there was a misunderstanding in a previous meeting, in which we talked about governance and whether it was the internet governance or LACRALO governance. Dev Anand Teelucksingh was very clear he made an observation in this respect, and this observation was reconsidered, and we focused on that to define and apply that concept, which was the LACRALO governance as an organization. I'm on the objective that we are now gathering together.

                                                We are now gathering the necessary information, so as to be able to carry out the assessments or recommendations necessary in this respect. If we are not gathering information, it would be very difficult for us to pave the way and prepare the objectives for LACRALO. The final objective is to propose an organization ready to phase the member's expectations as an organization, to have a better performance in the future.

JOSE ARCE:                             Antonio, may I have the floor?

ANTONIO MEDINA:               Jose, you have the floor.

JOSE ARCE:                             Thank you very much, Antonio. Now, it's very clear, the objective, although we need to close if it is one or several objectives. I would like you to confirm the information that you would like to gather together. What kind of information are we talking about? The survey that you proposed in the previous call is aiming at the gathering of that information.

ANTONIO MEDINA:               [INAUDIBLE [00:18:08] documents is concerned, the documents that we are gathering together. Well, these are tools. We are using the current [INAUDIBLE [00:18:19], so the tools that allow us to make decisions and the time. The memorandum of understanding is also important, because we have the mechanisms for accepting new members in LACRALO, or we need to take into account the mechanisms to call the attention of certain organizations which are not participating actively or which are not participating in the calls or the lists.

                                                We have certain procedures that allow us to be more agile, so that we can have different medias to concentrate on the activities that are important for us as an organization. We are now considering LACRALO as an organization, and would like to grow up and develop which needs active members representing as before the international community, when going to different events, important events related to the internet, and in this event, for example, we are not seeing the participation of our representatives.

                                                Yesterday, for example, [NAME INAUDIBLE [00:19:47] sent us a map in relation to the decision levels that are now being made in this meeting, in Dubai. In this month, we have possible destinations of certain countries, in terms of certain statements or their interests, but our region appears in gray colors, so we do not have a certain position, and we need to pay attention to that. Of course, I do understand the ones participating there are the government representatives, but based on that, I would like to focus on the fact that we have a working group and that we now have a better synchronization of the group.

                                                I hope that you can contribute to this working group, now it's clear that we're working on LACRALO governance and not on internet governance. I repeat, we know that. We are talking about LACRALO governance, that is to say, the organization of Latin America, the Caribbean region, and any document that you would like to send us that we can add to this work, that would allow us to have a much better deliverable. In terms of or in relation to the survey, we carried out a survey, but we didn't send it because there were some last minute changes, that were not applicable to the survey.

                                                Next week, if we have clearer information, we'll be able to send the survey formally, or to be able to perform a clear assessment. I don't know if we have the results, but this will be delivered as part of the work of the working group. I hope this is clear. We are not going to take this survey as something independent, but this will be associated to the final work at the end.

JOSE ARCE:                             Antonio, may I have the floor?

ANTONIO MEDINA:               Jose, you have the floor.

JOSE ARCE:                             I was not able to read the survey, so could you please tell us about the survey?

ANTONIO MEDINA:               That's a good question, but I'm not in front of the computer right now, so I don't really want to answer by heart. I think this was sent to Sylvia Herlein, so that she could give us an opinion. Do you think Sylvia could help me now with this, just to comment a little bit about the issues being assessed? This was a multiple selection survey for eight questions, and a multiple choice survey.

                                                Each of these issues was applied and people could just make a selection and give their opinions about other issues. This could complement the suggested options. Sylvia, if you have the survey at hand, could you please go ahead?

SYLVIA HERLEIN LEITE:          Thank you, Antonio. If you could give me one minute?

JOSE ARCE:                             We are advanced with the time, so perhaps we can go on with the agenda, and then we will discuss this internally. Perhaps you could share this survey with the group, because this survey should have been agreed with the group, but couldn't really see it yet.

ANTONIO MEDINA:               We were going to share it in the rest of the week, but we will then send it so that you can make suggestions, and just to do that before turning anything into an optional survey, we want to polish it. We don't know if it's going to be ten questions. It may be eight, but those are going to be eight precise questions, very related to the work we are developing right now. Sylvia would like to take the floor.

SYLVIA HERLEIN LEITE:          Just to make a clarification, Antonio and I, we were preparing the survey. We are polishing it and adding some more questions. That is why it has not been shared with the group yet, because it is in an elaboration and a creation phase. I suppose tomorrow we will be able to share with the rest of the people. That's all, thank you.

ANTONIO MEDINA:               Thank you, Sylvia. Jose, can you please go on with the rest of the agenda, please?

JOSE ARCE:                             Item three says active participation of the group members. If assignments are given to members in specific dates, they should do it with commitment and at the certain time, which is more or less the same as what I said at the beginning, regarding the tasks of this group. Antonio, now you have the floor.

ANTONIO MEDINA:               As I was saying before, from that moment on, we will ask each of you to have an active participation through some of the communications. I will also that you perform certain tasks, that you contribute with certain documents, and we will work as a group. I will be in charge of coordinating the group, but I will try to do it to the best of my knowledge.

JOSE ARCE:                             Is there anybody else who would like to say something else about item three, which would be the temporary agenda? One, two, three, nothing? Okay, we go then to item number four.

ANTONIO MEDINA:               Which is item number four?

JOSE ARCE:                             Item number four is a redefinition of LACRALO. Fatima has raised her hand. Both Fatima and Dev have raised their hands. Now, Fatima has the floor. It seems my Adobe has frozen.

FATIMA CAMBRONERO:        Before we progress, I would like to go back very quickly. I think it's a bit difficult, when we haven't really realized what our objectives are. It is difficult to see what is going to be around it. Are we going to focus on the document? It's not clear for me, because it's clear that Antonio said this is the governance of LACRALO, the LACRALO governance. It's the government of our organization. We all agree in this.

                                                We should put our documents for review, and is this going to be within our group? If so, this is going to take us more time. It's going to exceed the necessary time for this work group. The objective perhaps should be focused on showing what are the issues that we need to review, and then to create a new working group, so that this working group can deal with this review directly. In the time we have, we will not be able to produce something complete. That's the question I ask.

ANTONIO MEDINA:               Is that all, Fatima?

FATIMA CAMBRONERO:        Could you hear what I said?

ANTONIO MEDINA:               I would like to ask Fatima if she has a suggestion on the objectives that we should look for in our group, because then it would be one of the tasks that I would suggest that you do, and perhaps you could give us some recommendation in this regard.

FATIMA CAMBRONERO:        That's what I said. That's what I'm saying. We should discuss this among all of us, because is this going to be related to the review of the document, or what are we going to do in our group? We don't really have the time to make a review, to review the document. Perhaps we should state what are the issues that need to be reviewed, so that we can then create another group that is specialized in this issue. This is something that we should agree, all of us.

ANTONIO MEDINA:               That's correct. That's what I'm saying. What are the objectives for the issues to be dealt with, and then this will be within the objectives, and this will be the recommendations? That is, our working groups recommend that certain tasks be done and so, in the future, we can possibly create a working group to review the LACRALO bylaws, so that you know that we are within an assembly that's still pending, and there are issues that are going to be incorporated into this scenario of rights and duties that the members have.

FATIMA CAMBRONERO:        I think it's very difficult to progress, if we don't really know what is it that we're going to do. This should have been defined a long time ago, and I think today, if the only issue we can progress on is what it is that we want to do for our group -

ANTONIO MEDINA:               But you are the co-coordinator in this group, and I need to deliver certain results, but you're not contributing with anything. I don't really know what to do in this situation, because I should find support and not a problem to continue.

FATIMA CAMBRONERO:        Can I speak? I don't exercise this as my duty of coordinator, because I wasn't allowed to, and you were not present for a long time.

ANTONIO MEDINA:               You are the co-coordinator, but I haven't really received any communication from you.

FATIMA CAMBRONERO:        This is not the issue. We should not keep losing our time.

ANTONIO MEDINA:               You are forcing me to define the objectives, which is [INAUDIBLE [00:30:35]. This has nothing to do with the corporate government that we should do here. I ask that you make a proposal in this circumstance, because if we need to make results, we should have feedback.

FATIMA CAMBRONERO:        Can I speak? Can you all also hear me? Please calm down, because this is the work that we're all doing as a group. This is not the work of a coordinator or a co-coordinator. This should be defined by all of the group, and the few of us who are present here, these are the ones who should define this. I'm not asking you to define this. This is something we should agree among all of us.

ANTONIO MEDINA:               So then, I say that we should at least have ten objectives, and we should define three, and why don't you define the first objective?

FATIMA CAMBRONERO:        I am saying that we should say if we want or if we do not to review this document, because I'm not really understanding this, and it's difficult for me to progress if I don't really know what the objectives are. What is it that we want to do? [INAUDIBLE [00:31:43], but we need to know what we want to do.

ANTONIO MEDINA:               What is your proposal, as a first objective?

FATIMA CAMBRONERO:        Antonio, you're not listening to me. I'm asking, what are the issues that we should review in our document?

ANTONIO MEDINA:               You are making a suggestion and you are leaving me in limbo. I would like your suggestion to be more concrete than say, “Well, listen, Antonio, one of the objectives is to review the bylaws,” and okay, that's one objective. I'm not hearing anything concrete.

FATIMA CAMBRONERO:        Let others speak, because this cannot go on.

SILVIA VIVANCO:                   Dev has been asking for the floor for a long time. Perhaps he can contribute and can give some input with a few ideas. Maybe we can give him the floor? Dev, now you have the floor.

DEV ANAND TEELUCKSINGH:            Thank you and good afternoon, good evening to everyone. Well, I think we're having a little difficulty in trying to understand what our objectives are. Without defining our objectives or what we are here to do, it's very hard to propose work items to try to solve something which we don't know what we are trying to solve. This is supposed to be the LACRALO governance working group, so I would suggest – well, one of the things to suggest is I understand governance means this.

                                                It's the process of decision making, and the process by which decisions are implemented or not implemented. I would suggest that, and I suspect that one of the biggest challenges or problems we face is that we do not understand our government structure as-is right now. I would suggest the way forward would be to document how our governance process as we're implementing it now, as how it's supposed to be, as per the bylaws, et cetera, review that.

                                                Also, the second step would be is this governance structure working? Then, also, what ideals are we seeking in terms of governance? I think there are several key characteristics regarding good governance. There's participation, but you want to be involved in an organization, rule of law, transparency, responsiveness, consensus-oriented and so forth, but I think you have to start to understand what we are doing to it and what we want to change to it, before we actually propose changes. We have to understand what we really are now, produce a document that shows exactly how the governance structure works, and then why do we see that this is not working? Then, this would give us ideas as to what we should do. Thank you.

ANTONIO MEDINA:               Thank you, Dev. I think that, like the previous meeting, you were very clear and you showed us a task that would allow us to understand the work that we're going to do, but it's not an easy work. This is pretty complex work that requires information, and we need to be very careful at the time of delivering results. Is there anybody else who would like to make another comment?

SERGIO SALINAS PORTO:      Thank you. I would like to take the floor.

ANTONIO MEDINA:               Sergio, you have the floor.

SERGIO SALINAS PORTO:      I have two or perhaps three issues I would like to talk about. First, we are working in between friends, so let's try not to yell at each other while we are working and [INAUDIBLE [00:36:46] a lot of time to this, but we should then, if possible, try to agree and raise some consensus or at least to try not to say things that do not really correspond to our working group. My second point is what to do.

SYLVIA HERLEIN LEITE:          Sergio, we cannot really hear you, because can't really understand what you're saying.

SERGIO SALINAS PORTO:      Now?

SYLVIA HERLEIN LEITE:          Now we are hearing you okay.

SERGIO SALINAS PORTO:      I think we won't be able to have an in-depth work, but we will actually need to make a diagnosis and then call another group to have a work group that will require time, and then we will need to see what are all the tools we need for our governance. Firstly, we should create a document that is more related to a prognosis and keep our time to it. I think this is essential. If we progress on other kinds of issues, we will not reach anything.

                                                I don't really understand what Fatima is saying. Even though she may not agree with the form, well, I do agree with what she is saying. We should have all the more time, and I [INAUDIBLE [00:38:43] on this, because I do commit to work from now until Christmas, even if it's necessary, but we should end this as early as possible and see what the situation is like in LACRALO. The chair should call a meeting, should call a group to work on this, and I just say that I am available.

JOSE ARCE:                             Thank you. I would like to take the floor.

ANTONIO MEDINA:               Is there anybody else who would like to say something else? Jose, you have the floor.

JOSE ARCE:                             Antonio, can you hear me?

ANTONIO MEDINA:               Yes, we can hear you.

JOSE ARCE:                             First, I would like to propose Fatima to be a co-coordinator in the group, so Fatima, if you don't mind, I would like to work side by side with Antonio on this issue. This is a very important group, so this is my first issue. The second point is item four and five in the agenda were proposed by me in a private email, and this is oriented to what Dev said. If you need to talk about item four and five – you actually need to talk about points four and five, but we have just one minute to end the teleconference. I propose that in the minute we have, we should agree what is the next step forward and that we can progress, in that sense.

ANTONIO MEDINA:               Jose, do you have any suggestions on these that you are questioning? What do you suggest as a step forward? I think that what Dev said is very important. He has given us light on the three issues that we should focus on.

JOSE ARCE:                             These items were on the agenda as well, Antonio. It was just a question of reaching those items on the agenda. I don't really know what your question is.

ANTONIO MEDINA:               Well, because this is your question, my question is do you have any suggestion as to what are the steps forward?

JOSE ARCE:                             This is just a suggestion.

ANTONIO MEDINA:               Again, it is my work as a coordinator of the group, so I will propose a meeting with you, so that we can do all this through Skype, and that we can work on those days. We know that this is holiday time, but either our documents, we will lack them and we will send the necessary important information.

JOSE ARCE:                             Can I take the floor? It's 8:00 p.m., and I need to go. I apologize. We will be just in touch through emails and chat and letters, et cetera. Thank you and goodbye.

ANTONIO MEDINA:               Before ending this meeting, I would like to know how is it that I can have access to the records of this meeting, so that I can follow exactly what each of you have contributed? Perhaps you can send the minutes of this meeting.

SILVIA VIVANO:                     Yes, we will place the minutes of this meeting immediately on the wiki website, as well as the recording of this meeting, which will be available probably tomorrow or, at the latest, the day after tomorrow, so that you can listen to it.

ANTONIO MEDINA:               Thank you, Silvia. Thank you all for your time. Thank you all for your contributions. I hope Fatima will excuse me as well. What we are trying to do here is to look for results and perhaps the situation today is a call to work as a group and to be able to deliver results [INAUDIBLE [00:43:10] higher beneficials for all of the group. Thank you for your attendance.

FATIMA CAMBRONERO:        Antonio, can you please allow me to say something about something that Jose said? I would like to go away as a coordinator, and I agree that Jose will be here in that place. I just need to contribute. I will continue giving my input to the group. I agree with what you said to the group, where we should all collaborate. I agree in full with that, and I do my own mea culpla, if I didn't really contribute. Now, I do have time and I will. On the other hand, I also agree with what Sergio said. This is something that I did before. In the very little time we have, it's easier if we can recognize what we need to modify and then to create the necessary group. These also have to be within our objectives and within the work modalities that we have. That's all, thank you.

ANTONIO MEDINA:               Thank you, Fatima. What you said was very important. Now, thank you all for your time and have a good day.