Kenny Huang: Okay, good morning good afternoon and good evening everyone, welcome to join the CCP idea or tinker 2030 times teleconference meeting.
Kenny Huang: We go through today's agenda initial study from work on roku and agenda patient and Kim do we have any apologize and wi fi Member.
Kimberly Carlson: We have not received any formal apologies.
Kenny Huang: Okay right so moving to the next one and restricted neta I see I don't think we have any administrative matter and, if any, please remind me.
Kenny Huang: So we can just skip to the agenda item will be subgroup update or studying from various management, I can I request Dennis Dennis here giving an update I.
Kenny Huang: I get you.
Dennis Tan: Anything here.
Dennis Tan: Okay move over to all right, thank you getting good morning afternoon afternoon everyone.
Dennis Tan: So thing I just have a few minutes couple of minutes to give an acted on by management, so I just as a way of context it's been a long time.
Dennis Tan: That we've met with this group it's divided management sub group is tasked with responding basically fundamentally two questions on one is the also determine variance of ID and CCP Leah strains and also what what's the framework to manage valiant valiant of the top level and.
Dennis Tan: The consequences of it as well, so.
Dennis Tan: The soup group has.
Dennis Tan: been deliberate in discussing in general, there is a agreement into adopting the roots own label generation rules set, if you will think of it as a big idea and table for the root zone, that means applies for only idea and CC dld strains and.
Dennis Tan: and Jews also that table in order to previews calculate the balance associated with a apply for a stream.
Dennis Tan: And of course we will look at the issues that, basically, the body of knowledge that this group is basing his deliberation discussion come from basically to two sources, one is the staff paper.
Dennis Tan: On the idea and binding to the management framework and also technical study group on the application of the roots on agr.
Dennis Tan: When appropriate the the supergroup also consoles or.
Dennis Tan: six.
Dennis Tan: Look at the idea and a PDP that is happening on the year and so sigh and just just to.
Dennis Tan: To the extent possible, coordinate and and arrived to not to.
Dennis Tan: divergence of approaches, as far as managing values at the top level.
Dennis Tan: On that note.
Dennis Tan: The fundamental principles that are going to underpin the via management, how do you manage to these are the top level is basically to apply.
Dennis Tan: What it's called what we're calling it or what the staff Paper calls it, the same entity but instead ended up based basically means that.
Dennis Tan: If you have two labels that are being the same the one and only then the same entity beans will would dictate that those plda those volunteers does need to be managed by the same.
Dennis Tan: CCTV operator right and, by extension, by the same back end service provider if that's the case.
Dennis Tan: Of course, when we talk about by and plda and the registrations on or under those volunteer leads, you have second levels and the second levels if you have deals is there are one and only the same what happens to the second level, so we are also looking at those issues.
Dennis Tan: What are the consequences or implications of the same entity principal at the second level.
Dennis Tan: Knowing that in the CC, and so there are certain.
Dennis Tan: want to say restrictions, but the remedies right as far as doing policy on second level, the maintenance it's clearly.
Dennis Tan: Clearly there, but the subgroup task is to look at the issues delivery date, you know do a kind of a risk assessment as far as if you introduce these items.
Dennis Tan: What are the risks, what are the issues associated with this, and what are the possible mitigation mechanisms that you could you know provide and.
Dennis Tan: And we're going to submit them to grow we'll go into summit it's recommendations and all those topics to the full working group, in order to assess.
Dennis Tan: How to adopt those, whether it's policy or whether they are recommendation so or some some other form of formal guidance to do CCTV operator right again recognizing that there are certain boundaries, as far as GCC and itself policymaking.
Dennis Tan: um.
Dennis Tan: And last but not least, the.
Dennis Tan: other items that were looking at it's also the management throughout the life cycle of the jelly when they delegate it when they are revoke.
Dennis Tan: transferred to between CC do the operators, does the use case that exists, how do you manage and keep maintain the same entity principle across the lifecycle of tea leaves and subsequent second level domain into as well, so I think that's the gist of it.
Dennis Tan: bar I know help me here if I missed anything here, I think that, as far as updates, I think I want to stop here.
Bart Boswinkel: yeah maybe Maybe you can allude a little bit to the expected duration of the working group yeah i'll get back to it in a minute, but say what we still need to address.
Dennis Tan: Thanks, thank you, thank you, bar, yes, there are remaining i'm doing that, we need to address one of those items is the role of it and tables.
Dennis Tan: In the past gct operators were requested or require that rather, I think, to submit it and tables that they use in order to apply for a dnc to do the string that's not the that will not be the case.
Dennis Tan: Because of the roots on agr would be these ideas table in order to across the board across every city la Parada would use in order to apply those, but the question remains about it and tables for the second level or is that something that.
Dennis Tan: This will work or the you know forward and grow will consider as far as.
Dennis Tan: PCT elevators submitting those tables, because there are again certain considerations when we introduce variance and how we should deal with those.
Dennis Tan: at a lower level and, as far as the the timeline thing we're looking at about a bar, you know correct me if i'm wrong, but I think we're looking at two to three meetings saying in order to complete our deliberations and discussions and to.
Dennis Tan: Bring the the Ward to a State where we are comfortable submitting to the footwork and group for consideration.
Bart Boswinkel: yeah maybe so so i've been looking sorry can Dennis i've been looking at it and I think one additional step, we need to take.
Bart Boswinkel: With the variant management group is to do a yeah I would say, go through the process again and see where the variant management issues will be inserted.
Bart Boswinkel: that's again to the two meetings, because everything is done, like in all the working groups, or at least two meetings so if you look at it.
Bart Boswinkel: If you look at the schedule, right now, my assumption is that by I would say.
Bart Boswinkel: end of February will start the full working real boy have the results of the variant management group and can start the update of the basic document so with all the proposal and again that will take some a couple of meetings.
Bart Boswinkel: Because we need to introduce it but i'll share that in a minute after the the selection group and the update and the update on the ID and a PDP thanks.
Dennis Tan: Thank you, mark.
Dennis Tan: And then that that for that did, for me, getting back to you.
Kenny Huang: Okay right Thank you Dennis and so thank you both for giving the update, so now we move into the next update or the selection subgroup and can ask the nail to giving the update.
Anil Kumar Jain, NIXI India: Thank you Kenny.
Anil Kumar Jain, NIXI India: and good morning good afternoon and good evening to all of you.
Anil Kumar Jain, NIXI India: We started this subgroup around two months back and we had around four or five meetings with us the basic purpose of the subgroup was to consider the various events for the.
Anil Kumar Jain, NIXI India: score on.
Anil Kumar Jain, NIXI India: This basic purpose was for remove one of the ideas CCP ld and its variant from the root Joan database and hence trigger the ID in cct early retirement process so basically this this group's talks about and considering the various proposal that.
Anil Kumar Jain, NIXI India: On there which situations, the already delegated idea and CCTV string can be taken back and can be retired so.
Anil Kumar Jain, NIXI India: We have considered these aspect and.
Anil Kumar Jain, NIXI India: Can I ask a.
Anil Kumar Jain, NIXI India: Hello Emily or even.
Bart Boswinkel: Just we can hear you I Neil.
Kenny Huang: yeah yeah okay.
Anil Kumar Jain, NIXI India: yeah i'm just hold on just hold on.
Anil Kumar Jain, NIXI India: Okay, so initially we were discussing about the various parameters, under which the delegation of the strings are possible and looking at various aspects.
Anil Kumar Jain, NIXI India: That, in case those parameters, or those descriptions goes off, then what are the possibilities so i'll take the entire group, one by one, the first one was.
Anil Kumar Jain, NIXI India: association of ideas cct led to a territory esper is oh three, one double six so basically we are saying that in case the territory is removed all together.
Anil Kumar Jain, NIXI India: Then, what will happen so basically remove one of the territory from ISO 31 661 list can trigger.
Anil Kumar Jain, NIXI India: Retirement process for that particular idea and CC dld.
Anil Kumar Jain, NIXI India: So then, there was a idea and CCL dishing must be a meaningful representation of the name of the territory now suppose the name of the country itself, or that territory gets changed, then I think this is a trigger event which.
Anil Kumar Jain, NIXI India: makes us possible to ensure that the trigger event for retirement process starts under the territory, you know whether the full name of the country's changed or if the idea and CCP lt is a short form of the designation of the same name of the territory.
Anil Kumar Jain, NIXI India: Then, in both cases, there is a possibility that we may trigger the event for retirement process.
Anil Kumar Jain, NIXI India: Next to territory is the designated language.
Anil Kumar Jain, NIXI India: If you all remember that there was a lot of discussions in the full working group about the designated native language for selection of a string for idea, so in case the language loses its legal status in the territory.
Anil Kumar Jain, NIXI India: and is no longer considered as a language of administration.
Anil Kumar Jain, NIXI India: Then this also makes us to ensure that the retirement process starts.
Anil Kumar Jain, NIXI India: Also associated with language is a script.
Anil Kumar Jain, NIXI India: And if the script.
Anil Kumar Jain, NIXI India: in which the designated language is expressed itself against gets changed, but the language remain same even then, this is a trigger for retirement process.
Anil Kumar Jain, NIXI India: Another thing is that, when we are considering a designated language in a designated script, then there is a group which actually support the selected string and if the significantly interested parties, no longer support the ideas, the security in that case also.
Anil Kumar Jain, NIXI India: The trigger for retirement process may start.
Anil Kumar Jain, NIXI India: And finally accept this, then there are technical criteria under which we discussed how the selection of a ID and cct empty string must be avoided and in case there is a change in the general technical criteria during the life of it and CC dld.
Anil Kumar Jain, NIXI India: Then those parameters which actually qualified ideas insecurity or its various to be part of it no longer exists, then it also trigger.
Anil Kumar Jain, NIXI India: A process of retirement so Basically, this also include a variant management, so the the selection subgroup will work in collaboration with the variants of group and we will ensure that the right kind of.
Anil Kumar Jain, NIXI India: Policies and the recommendations of frames, which are synonymous, at both were in management group as well as the selection group, so this is all what we have done, and this is the format, in which the whole discussion is going on in the D selection group.
Anil Kumar Jain, NIXI India: Now the same question with Bart had asked from Dennis about the possible dates when this the selection subgroup is expected to complete six deliberation and submit the report to the full full working group, I personally feel that.
Anil Kumar Jain, NIXI India: By middle of January, we should be able to complete the deliberations and form of the recommendation, which we have, and then we can come to the full working group.
Anil Kumar Jain, NIXI India: To have a final discussion and close it so we hope that by by end of January, we can finalize the recommendations of the D selection subgroup.
Anil Kumar Jain, NIXI India: Thank you.
Kenny Huang: Thank you, Neil that's very, very positive progress for the essentials of group so move to the third one, which ID and he PDP update a new can last year view to to give him the update.
yeah.
Anil Kumar Jain, NIXI India: Thank you Kenny again.
Anil Kumar Jain, NIXI India: Unfortunately, I was not able to attend the last idea in a PDP group, but overall structure, under which the idea in a PDP is the discussions are going on, I just brief you.
Anil Kumar Jain, NIXI India: That this is regarding the gtd idea dld variant management, basically, so what they have done, is that they have prepared a charter.
Anil Kumar Jain, NIXI India: idea and a PDP charter this Charter has seven sub sections a B, C D E, F and G, the first chapter is consistent definitions and technical utilization of root zone as year for.
Anil Kumar Jain, NIXI India: GT ID and God and their variance then second subsection these about the same entity at the top level.
Anil Kumar Jain, NIXI India: Again, the entity of the main gtd variance and the variance then they also talk in the section see about the second level of the same entity.
Anil Kumar Jain, NIXI India: So basically in case we are moving and allocating the second level gtd then at the variance of the second level GT ld.
Anil Kumar Jain, NIXI India: And sometimes it happens that the main second level dt lt also have a confusion or variant of the original dt lt so those aspects also expected to be discussed.
Anil Kumar Jain, NIXI India: Then the next one D section talks about adjustment in the registry agreements registry services registry transition process.
Anil Kumar Jain, NIXI India: and other processes and procedures related to the domain name lifecycle, so this is basically more administrative and technical things together.
Anil Kumar Jain, NIXI India: Then that each section Steve talks about adjustment to objection process strings similarity reviews string contention resolution reserved strings and other policies and procedures.
Anil Kumar Jain, NIXI India: The F section deals in adjustment in registration dispute resolution procedures and trademark protection mechanism.
Anil Kumar Jain, NIXI India: and final section deals in the process to update the idea and implementation guidelines so Basically, we are also talking about here how the whole process of implementation of the various management will look like.
Anil Kumar Jain, NIXI India: In four or five meetings which are held, you know, there are various sub sections of each section so data under Section E, there are a one a two a three a four.
Anil Kumar Jain, NIXI India: And a five K six and a seven so still the a PDP is in the first a one a two and a three section which they have discussed the basically it is quite close to the variant management subgroup of CC PDP.
Anil Kumar Jain, NIXI India: Working Group which Dennis I just briefly about us is that they have taken a conscious decision that route journal here is the is the basis for variant management and.
Anil Kumar Jain, NIXI India: They are going to consider in case a variant is other than the root zone, then how to deal because it has been also discussed that there are certain variance which is defined and claimed by the owner or manager of that particular.
Anil Kumar Jain, NIXI India: gtd.
Anil Kumar Jain, NIXI India: But whether that particular variant region level table is available or not so sometimes that is not available and the general consensus to us is in the in the committee is that we should not.
Anil Kumar Jain, NIXI India: consider that, in case it is allocated how to do that this is also being discussed sick in there, it has been discussed with that in case you allocate a variant.
Anil Kumar Jain, NIXI India: gtd ideas dt lt and if you if the I can don't allow them to for allocation, then what is the process of challenges, what are the different scenarios, under which a applicant can.
Anil Kumar Jain, NIXI India: Tell is the whole process and who will be or the cost of those challenges, so these are the things which are being discussed and.
Anil Kumar Jain, NIXI India: rest of course last meeting I was not aware of, so I cannot tell in case the dentist was is attending regularly in case Dennis can brief.
Anil Kumar Jain, NIXI India: The entire working group about the last meeting I will be thankful that is what I just wanted to inform the overall structure of ID and a PDP what is being discussed, thank you Kenny over to you.
Kenny Huang: Thank you, and you know Dennis do want to give anything additional.
Dennis Tan: Yes, happy to, so I think the most important question or topic that was discussed last week by the G, and so it is a question about the.
Dennis Tan: Or the idea of the issues trying to to look at is a permutation issue right as you would imagine.
Dennis Tan: it's hard to hard to maybe grasp the concept but.
Dennis Tan: Violence introduce a permutation issue right you could you could you could have, for example, for a apply for a stream.
Dennis Tan: One barrier right because one coupon one letter has a volume of associated with it.
Dennis Tan: But when you have in one apply for a string you have multiple code points.
Dennis Tan: Again, multiple letters with values of each other, then the binary calculation explodes right, and then you have 34 or maybe more binding labels, so there is a question that was or rather a recommendation.
Dennis Tan: submitted by the sx in SAC state of 60 that.
Dennis Tan: That.
Dennis Tan: enables or the allocated will labels.
Dennis Tan: stemming from varying calculation needs to be as small as possible in order to mitigate these been mutation issue when and help or.
Your.
Dennis Tan: Life, if I were to were held the regulatory operators already runs when we talk about second level management of those these violent label right so that was a discussion we have not yet.
Dennis Tan: arrived to a conclusion, or a general agreement as to where would that be, because you know what what is small as possible zero is it one is it to.
Dennis Tan: How do you have any cutter would be an arbitrary numbers So how do you make that determination so that that's one of the you know, the most important question that was discussed, but again, the group that has not arrived to aid, you know agreement yet Thank you.
Kenny Huang: Okay, thank you Dennis and also thank you, Neil and for giving the idea of a PDP update and we move we now move to the agenda number for purchase over the park and I have you to give him the project overview about ratio hey.
Bart Boswinkel: yeah yeah That was what respect of Dennis comments on the last.
Point sorry.
Bart Boswinkel: The the variant management subgroup will be addressing that point at its next meeting, or the meeting afterwards, as well as this is probably one of the final.
Bart Boswinkel: Major discussion items and and again going back to the the common from a SEC and and to minimize the number of variance.
Bart Boswinkel: and
Bart Boswinkel: yeah for those who are interested in who are on both groups might be useful to attend that part of the variant management group as well, thanks.
Kenny Huang: Okay, thank you so now i'll go to you.
Bart Boswinkel: Yes, I will, and I hope you can see, this yes, you do, I can see it myself the advantage of the double.
Bart Boswinkel: So um let me.
Bart Boswinkel: go over this for you may have seen the latest and i'll try to enlarge it I hope this works from you from your end as well yeah because the major part is is right here, you can, I hope you can read it.
Bart Boswinkel: Let me scroll down so.
Bart Boswinkel: I, as you can see, and these are open, there are so we've concluded the basic draft which is which you can see here so that's that's why it's colored.
Bart Boswinkel: i've updated the current.
Bart Boswinkel: planning.
Bart Boswinkel: to reflect where the working groups are and also included a percentage completed so as you can see, if you would look to the first variant management group and we just alluded to it.
Bart Boswinkel: The variant management group is discussing the draft recommendations and has to start the discussion on the idea and tables and.
Bart Boswinkel: Then it needs to do the process requirements, again, these are all if you can, if you look, this is a period, more or less have to have to four weeks, this is six weeks as well, and the reason why it's six weeks is.
Bart Boswinkel: There will be an introduction a and first reading, and then a double second reading and that's the working method.
Bart Boswinkel: you're all used to so that's why it definitely takes a few weeks.
Bart Boswinkel: Once the end, and this will result in an update of service variant management group, this will result in an update of the basic document, and then the full working group.
Bart Boswinkel: will need to review the basic document and agree upon etc, and what you see as well, is what i've included is, as you can see right here, but also we here is who is responsible for achieving.
Bart Boswinkel: For for working on these items and there is a bit of duration as well in in in.
Bart Boswinkel: If I will share the details, but you can see, so what is important to understand and that's why we.
Bart Boswinkel: thought the dealership thought it would be useful to share this with the full working will, as you can see, the review and update basic document is really a matter of the full working group so that's.
Bart Boswinkel: When when the fall working book will get involved in a variant management group so that's the various management and, as you can see, this is a very.
Bart Boswinkel: long drawn out.
Bart Boswinkel: subgroup but yeah it's a complex area, and there was especially the as Dennis already alluded to the.
Bart Boswinkel: Staff papers is include a lot of questions that needs to be addressed so that's what respect to the variant management group and where we are the next one and i'll make this easier on you i'll close the variant management group.
Bart Boswinkel: So the.
Bart Boswinkel: The next one, as you can see, is the.
Bart Boswinkel: The selection group and the do selection group has started so analysis that was so that's completed and is now.
Bart Boswinkel: Working on identifying trigger events, and there are still two meetings during this year, because the line you see is the.
Bart Boswinkel: New Year and, in parallel, is working on its findings and recommendations etc so identifying the triggers and a discussion around this is reflected in the recommendations.
Bart Boswinkel: and, hopefully, as a new alluded to the by the end of this year, it will have completed its discussion around the trigger events, and that will.
Bart Boswinkel: need to be updated say the findings and recommendations, hopefully that will be done early next year and it's a first meetings, because.
Bart Boswinkel: The discussion around significant the interested party is probably the most difficult one, and there is a fundamental discussion as well, going on right now is.
Bart Boswinkel: Whether.
Bart Boswinkel: say the criteria should if the criteria not met that should automatically result in a retirement of the selected ID ncc dld.
Bart Boswinkel: What is relevant as well, and this, this will be part of the variant management group whether and Dennis alluded to this, the life cycle is dealt with.
Bart Boswinkel: In the variant management group, so the law, so the retirement or variance is is will be a bit of an interaction between the two groups, but in principle.
Bart Boswinkel: The variant management group has already stated that the variants will follow the the life cycle of the selected it and CC to the string so but to be confirmed what is important for you is as a full group, as you can see, once the drafting, has been completed, the.
Bart Boswinkel: The.
Bart Boswinkel: Retirement suggestions or recommendations need to be included in the main document again and that's when the full working group will discuss the findings of the.
Bart Boswinkel: Of the D selection group, this is for scene, and that was the reason to convene today's meeting to kick off somewhere in January.
Bart Boswinkel: So either mid or by the end of January, so be aware that by the end of January you as a full group will be invited to review the recommendations of the de selection group and also start discussing whether their proposals and the way it will be incorporated in the basic document is.
Bart Boswinkel: yeah meet your agreement again, this is a prolonged period.
Bart Boswinkel: And then hopefully by March and then and again this is so that's what respect to the the selection group i'll close this so we focusing now on confusing similarity and that would be this third excuse me third.
Bart Boswinkel: Sub group, the call for volunteers.
Bart Boswinkel: The intention is to do the two and.
Bart Boswinkel: To ask you whether you're interested to participate in the.
Bart Boswinkel: Confusing similarity.
Bart Boswinkel: Group by mid January so expect an email by mid January from the chairs and inviting you and if you're interested to participate in the confusing similarity subgroup and, as you can see, and now I need to open this up again.
Bart Boswinkel: The.
Bart Boswinkel: intention is that the subgroup will start this confusing similarity several will start at the end and by the time that the full working group has completed on has completed its work.
Bart Boswinkel: On the D selection, the reason for doing this and that's very important to understand because going forward that way is most likely the the method of working, as you know, the PDP for group or groups meet every week so.
Bart Boswinkel: Week one is the meeting of the variant management group week two is the meeting of the D selection group.
Bart Boswinkel: Going forward, one is the do selection group has the full working will has finished its work, then the confusing similarity will come again work in parallel.
Bart Boswinkel: With the variant management group and by the time the, and this is variant management group has completed its work and the full recommend and the recommendations of the.
Bart Boswinkel: subgroup are ready to be discussed by the full working group.
Bart Boswinkel: it's the D selection all the work on the D selection should be completed so that you can see that the full working group and the drafting team or the.
Bart Boswinkel: Confusing similarities subgroup can work in parallel again so one week is the full group the other week is the confusing similarity group, and this going forward and, at the end.
Bart Boswinkel: There will be some time to maybe I hope we can avoid it, but that could be a time when the full working will will need to meet every week.
Bart Boswinkel: And, in a way it's envisioned, but this is really looking forward is when this group will start or the CPP group will start on stress testing the policy itself so come up with use cases scenarios check whether the.
Bart Boswinkel: policy provides the correct responses and if not, it needs to be updated, but this is envision, as you can see, to start somewhere, by the end of the second.
Bart Boswinkel: quarter in 2022 so what we're focusing on, and I hope that's clear say starting yeah where we are right now with the variant management group and the.
Bart Boswinkel: Sorry, and the D selection group is around end of year, and hopefully by.
Bart Boswinkel: End of so by June, the various groups will have June 2022 the various group will have completed their work, so we can start really looking into the stress testing.
Bart Boswinkel: With the full working group and maybe that's the by that time it's every week and so that's what respect to developing the policy itself the policy itself will end up in an.
Bart Boswinkel: initial report again to be discussed by the full working group and, once this is ready, it will go into public consultation and then you will have this you soon as oh policymaking.
Bart Boswinkel: If all goes according to this plan, and this is just a plan and nothing more, and you can see.
Bart Boswinkel: An independence very much on the progress you're working group makes with respect to the various recommendations, if all goes to plan the.
Bart Boswinkel: Hopefully, in q1 2023 the full PDP will be done, but, as you can see, the final I would say almost the final six months public consultation and the.
Bart Boswinkel: discussion around the final report again that will include the the working group so in a year time before work will be done and the final stages that's purely internal session as well, so that's the overall planning of the.
Bart Boswinkel: BT be.
Bart Boswinkel: yeah, given the current I would say, taking into account the current base of a working.
Bart Boswinkel: Looking at the progress and the work to be expected.
Bart Boswinkel: I hope this is not too much of a shock.
Bart Boswinkel: Given that it still will be got ongoing for another year, but I hope this is a more realistic plan, then we had today and really takes into account, where we are right now.
Bart Boswinkel: And I think over the next year, I would say, for the next half year it is reasonably stable maybe one additional point and that's again a.
Bart Boswinkel: Probably a milestone which is not included, which should be included in the reporting, as you know, in June 2021 so that's almost a half a year ago, the working group did provide a update to the Community as part during I can 70 now I need to 71.
Bart Boswinkel: If all goes to plan and which is not included, or we could do it, you could do it anyway, that by I can 74 so that's a year after the fact.
Bart Boswinkel: The work and will will do again a update to the broader community, including a gap, and as soon as oh and other interested parties during a again 74 so and also from that perspective I think it is.
Bart Boswinkel: We should try to work to to.
Bart Boswinkel: yeah hopefully that by.
Bart Boswinkel: June 2022 so that somewhere here that the also the confusing similarity group has done a lot of its work, so.
Bart Boswinkel: So by then yeah the the the the the framework of the new policy.
Bart Boswinkel: Is it can be shared and it's fine tuning after was including stress testing, etc, so that was my update around the project banning, but do you Kenny.
Kenny Huang: Right, thank you, thank you, Bob providing the overall project can chat so we can have basically understanding how a we support group its progress and US what's our expectation for their future their progress so back to the agenda item name the next one should be.
Kenny Huang: And this one should be lunch of confusion similarities because bar already mentioned, we according to again chat now we're going to corps volunteer for confusion similarity subgroup so.
Kenny Huang: that's theoretically, we can align with our our project progress and also have some milestone for different subgroups.
Kenny Huang: So please prepare your mind if you are happy and willing to participate, please, please do join the confusion similarity subgroup about do you want, do you want to add anything else for a call for volunteers and.
Bart Boswinkel: Confusion similar, oh no I just so it would be, I think, maybe if you're interested await the email and but also look at the.
Bart Boswinkel: end to really understand what is going on, may have a look at the fast track process and to.
Bart Boswinkel: guidelines that are related to the confusing similarity review, because there is the confusing similarity review process on the fast track is very extensive, so you first have the full and that needs to be reviewed.
Bart Boswinkel: So I will i'll pass the links into the various documents in I will included in Nicole volunteers that's easier, so you don't have to look right now, but by then have a look at these documents better you Kenny.
Kenny Huang: Okay right Thank you so now move to the last item any other business, if you have any please raise your hand or just speak up.
Kenny Huang: If know any other business or like to close the first, the first part of our full working group meetings, and thank you for your participation and you are welcome to stay here if next one, we move to the identity selection subgroup okay I moved to enya and you know that's my MIC is yours.
Anil Kumar Jain, NIXI India: Thank you Kenny, thank you very much, and I think the first part of today's discussion of the full working group was quite informative and I hope that all Members.
Anil Kumar Jain, NIXI India: must have got the update about the working the President status of variants of group as well as the.
Anil Kumar Jain, NIXI India: The selection subgroup and again.
Anil Kumar Jain, NIXI India: As Kenny, has said that, I request all the Members to pick up their mind, depending on the the information which is going to be shared it by Bart.
Anil Kumar Jain, NIXI India: about the fast track process on the confusing similarity and if you are able to make up your mind and you need to join, please make up your mind and there will be a.
Anil Kumar Jain, NIXI India: Particular circular which will be issued by Kenny on on this particular aspect to that I request all of you to 20 respond.
Anil Kumar Jain, NIXI India: Thank you, and welcome to the.
Anil Kumar Jain, NIXI India: conference call number five of the selections that brooks.
Anil Kumar Jain, NIXI India: Any ethnicity matter came.
Kimberly Carlson: I do not have any party have any right.
Anil Kumar Jain, NIXI India: Thank you and but.
Anil Kumar Jain, NIXI India: don't need I don't need.
Bart Boswinkel: To.
Anil Kumar Jain, NIXI India: Go Thank you very much thank you now we move to Point number three, that is a further discussion before we go for the second reading, must the.
Anil Kumar Jain, NIXI India: selected ideal CCL distinct continuously made all criteria I request, but to please carry on Point number 345 for the discussion, including six over to back.
Bart Boswinkel: Thank you, Neil, and I think just to recap, and to inform the broader broader group.
Bart Boswinkel: and going back to the meeting from nine till November, and so there was one comment from Peter.
Bart Boswinkel: And, and he raised a very I would say fundamental question which is relevant for this for this group.
Bart Boswinkel: So, why would say idea, so it is very Let me take a step back and ask the question he raised was in the context of.
Bart Boswinkel: The removal of the name of a country or the striking the name of a country for myself 3166 is very obvious and especially after the.
Bart Boswinkel: Presentation of the working to the working group from the gap on the age of 3166 once a the name of a country is removed from Asia 3166 or from the or not, no longer exception reserved then.
Bart Boswinkel: The say the country code itself the ascii country code will be removed so that's one and that's really clearly trigger point from from the retirement policy but also say from from if you look broader.
Bart Boswinkel: say there is, if you look at the meaningfulness criteria is impossible so striking a breaking through the name of a country effective remains.
Bart Boswinkel: The country no longer is existent, especially, and especially in every it's not include any exception reserved this.
Bart Boswinkel: It definitely no longer exists and there can't be any idea and CC to be associated with that territory, either as would be nor would it be possible for conflict Oh, that was a very clear case and and the working group agreed on this.
Bart Boswinkel: endeavor context, Peter raised the point is okay that's almost a a basic condition, however, if you look at the other criteria, what would be the ration now for and.
Bart Boswinkel: For for retirement of the idea ncc to D is it enough that or should it should the rationale be that, at all times the.
Bart Boswinkel: idea and CC dld must meet the criteria or.
Bart Boswinkel: yeah isn't say.
Bart Boswinkel: Is the the working group the subgroup of another opinion that say.
Bart Boswinkel: Whether or not a language is remains designated is less important once you have an idea and CCD on the stream, you could use yeah.
Bart Boswinkel: One could argue say once selected it, it should continue the same is true with the significant be interested parties, if you lose support from the significantly interested parties, and we had the work will have a subgroup had an extensive discussion around it.
Bart Boswinkel: Then.
Bart Boswinkel: yeah the no longer support from the significant be interested parties is relevant, however, is that enough for the retirement process own and so it's what this is more about the fundamental question about what is the rationale.
Bart Boswinkel: For these.
Bart Boswinkel: So for for for retiring an idea and CC dld other than that say the removal from the age of 3166, and this is addressed say.
Bart Boswinkel: In a question of whether the subgroup should advise a full group to stick to the basic premise that the selected audience sees it, the ld must continuously and.
Bart Boswinkel: overtime meet all the criteria so.
Bart Boswinkel: That was a question for you and you had two weeks to think about it, and anybody.
Bart Boswinkel: wants to talk to it.
Bart Boswinkel: don't be shy yeah go.
Svitlana Tkachenko: Ahead Hello.
Svitlana Tkachenko: depends on the situation, because if technical criteria changes the domain names is easy to do the identity God can't more exists so it's.
Svitlana Tkachenko: it's not discussion or to remove to select as the CC God, but if other criteria so it's it's if, especially with significantly interested parties very.
Svitlana Tkachenko: Controversial thing, because if if a party don't don't support this idea, but it's still use it use it in this country.
Svitlana Tkachenko: So it's better to disease or to continue to exist, this this again.
Svitlana Tkachenko: So there's different kind of.
Svitlana Tkachenko: criteria that can be applied to this election or.
Svitlana Tkachenko: As this domain name or continue to exist.
Bart Boswinkel: may ask you said, I understand your statement as that you think some criteria are more fundamental than others, but what makes what what causes that distinction, which are, why do you think one criteria is more relevant than other criteria.
Bart Boswinkel: What is the difference between these criteria.
Svitlana Tkachenko: For example, technical criteria.
Svitlana Tkachenko: yeah, so why are they, why are they your view.
Bart Boswinkel: More important than, for example, the support from the significant be interested parties.
Svitlana Tkachenko: So if definitely got to change the system and they wouldn't exist in air for every user so some computer since the Internet can support this dnc city as it wouldn't work so it's cause some very, very difficult situation situation is there for you.
Bart Boswinkel: Peter I see your your your your comment but it's a more important than any views, what would you say.
Peter Koch: hi this is Peter for the record yeah apologies for for shouting into the room here in the in the chat but um I think the distinction that I came up with is one that is not about being more important necessarily but about being.
Peter Koch: In a way, you said fundamental but maybe maybe more objective understanding that is a that is a wizard word as well um.
Peter Koch: The.
Peter Koch: If the technical feasibility of the domain name goes away, then there is.
Peter Koch: likely no way to continue it or to use those names in a in a meaningful manner, or even might pose a security risk and so on and so forth.
Peter Koch: Because it's a technical credit sorry the technical requirements are no longer fulfilled That means they have been changed in in in spite of not being backwards compatible, so this is a rare occasion, but we need to plan for that I agree.
Peter Koch: But of course that is kind of the the killer argument if there was reason to change the end it's basically about the idea and standard and and surrounding areas and there was reason to change that.
Peter Koch: Then, that is nothing that was likely nothing that was decided within the Community, but it came from from other influence and is hopefully more yeah stick to objective as a criterion I don't like the word but it's probably better than more important.
Peter Koch: hope that makes sense.
Bart Boswinkel: Yes, but, but let me.
Bart Boswinkel: Let me ask you the question if.
Bart Boswinkel: So, and this goes back to the internal consistency of the policy.
Bart Boswinkel: One of the starting points and that internal consistency is already.
Bart Boswinkel: On the pressure, I would say, in a way from by allowing variance.
Bart Boswinkel: Let me allude to this one of the criteria and important one is only one, and I would say that's fairly fundamental to date was only one idea and CC do the first, but the designated language script combination.
Bart Boswinkel: Now, if, for example, a designated language would change.
Bart Boswinkel: Would you and that's in a way it's probably it's it depending on say that the documentation you require, but if you can make it fairly objective.
Bart Boswinkel: Because it's documented either in law or in other way, because it has to be in a language of administration so once the Jews and no longer use and no longer recognized by the government of a State as a designated language.
Bart Boswinkel: Then you have your your more or less objective criteria, but that would say, if you change the designated language and.
Bart Boswinkel: Then, because this is an open process and you do not retire the designated language or the form idea or the idea it's easy to the in the form a designated language, but you would and you would allow the new one.
Bart Boswinkel: Then you end up with two idea and CC do these in the first place, and why make that exception for it and CC do if compared with accuracy ctr leads.
Bart Boswinkel: So that's so it's also about internal consistency of the policy going back to you is that a concern for you.
Peter Koch: Is Peter.
Peter Koch: Assuming there, what do you ask.
me as in singular.
Peter Koch: um.
Peter Koch: yeah that's that's a difficult that's a difficult one.
Peter Koch: So others others might want to.
Bart Boswinkel: Point you in pro tour as well.
Bart Boswinkel: yeah really I hope you yeah.
Peter Koch: So I I would agree that objective was again, not the optimal not the optimal word here but.
Peter Koch: If I remember correctly, the criteria that we came up with for finding out what a designated languages were a bit softer and I know I introduce another another adjective now.
Peter Koch: we're a bit softer than the others.
Peter Koch: In terms of you either headed documented here and there, and then there, unless we get got rid of that I might not be on top of the text, but we had some.
Bart Boswinkel: stuff it needs to be it needs to be documented and there needs to be an internal.
Bart Boswinkel: It needs to be validated internally.
Peter Koch: You know.
Bart Boswinkel: certified in a way.
Peter Koch: And then there was this experts.
Bart Boswinkel: Opinion that's it validated it and then you have either experts or somebody else, but it needs to be very met David and documented.
Bart Boswinkel: So if, for example, somebody would ask is there still a designated language, then it still needs to be ish you still need to be provide able to provide that documentation.
Bart Boswinkel: So, at the end of the day, and you, and I think you, you and others agreed and you this is your singular Peter, but others on the call as well agreed, yes, if there is a change initially it's an alert.
Bart Boswinkel: But so, but you that's kicking the can down the road at one point, you need to decide, and I think that's up to the group to decide whether you want to whether these criteria.
Bart Boswinkel: are really should remain valid during the life cycle of a ID ncc to the or for the life cycle of an idea and CC Daddy.
Bart Boswinkel: is in a way, they are object objective fireable to use a legal term.
Bart Boswinkel: Anybody.
Bart Boswinkel: This is a hard question is a.
Bart Boswinkel: piece of go ahead.
Peter Koch: yeah thanks, but this is Peter again i'm trying to use an engineering approach to the question here is, which if I if I can't prove the positive then maybe I can deny the negative or.
Peter Koch: The.
Peter Koch: The removal of at amp D from 3166 dash, one that is well formerly in an external trigger might have some some issues that happened in the country before that, but that out of scope for us.
Peter Koch: that's an external trigger.
The.
Peter Koch: Loss of applicability of the string again is a an external trigger because the only reason I can't imagine at the moment is that the standards change under the hood and.
Peter Koch: There is no point in maintaining that name um if it is not technically.
Peter Koch: usable and then, of course, one can argue whether it remains usable or not, we have a mo geez we have it in 2003 verses eight and so on and so forth, but strictly speaking of a standard has changed and that the that co point is is discouraged and then all is lost um.
Peter Koch: So that's the kind of commonality between those the others are.
Peter Koch: What i'm saying plural, but maybe while we do have the, the question of script and and language I think that's that's both kind of this.
Peter Koch: they're probably two ways out the one is, we would argue in favor of.
Peter Koch: Maintaining those because there is no collision remember that reuse argument for for activities and also the argument that you need.
Peter Koch: Country to eventually because I can doesn't want to decide what country is we avoid that by also with the ncc to these always referring back to the ISO standard I bought a language and what the appropriate script is something that is likely decided locally and the two ways out are.
Peter Koch: The local community, and in my in my cats and dogs island example it's never only the cats or the dogs, the local community is always the cats and dogs together and apologies again for that for that picture.
Peter Koch: And if that assumption is right, then, then I think that will be one way or the other would be.
Peter Koch: To have two groups of criteria or maybe not groups, but two planes of criteria, where we had this the harder ones objective whatever external influenced versus the locally decided once and then.
Bart Boswinkel: You.
Bart Boswinkel: use it in a way that me again play the devil's advocate.
Bart Boswinkel: A safe, as you know, a significant name change of country may result in a change of the country code.
Bart Boswinkel: And the significant name change of the country is almost similar to changing in designated language again this is done, and both are done locally.
Bart Boswinkel: And in that sense.
Bart Boswinkel: If you would go down that path, it is very difficult, at least, I think, maybe for us on on this group, but in future to distinguish between the two.
Peter Koch: So, if I may respond Peter again.
Peter Koch: And then I.
Peter Koch: will give away to others that name change, I think, is only indirectly.
Peter Koch: That technically it's it's only indirectly influence from from the local community, the the external thing is that the the code really and truly changes, but I must say I find it hard to do to do this without a whiteboard and looking into people's faces to read their body language.
Peter Koch: When it comes to these details.
Bart Boswinkel: exclusive Mariana go ahead.
Mirjana Tasić (.rs & .срб): yeah, I just wanted to point to the same thing as Peter said that the order think of the name of the country is locally initiated if result in a painting of ISO code so for us it is an external.
Mirjana Tasić (.rs & .срб): thing yeah external thing which forces us to.
Mirjana Tasić (.rs & .срб): switch on this thread that's what was mine my first thought about it, thank you.
Bart Boswinkel: Thank you, but.
Bart Boswinkel: yeah.
Bart Boswinkel: But isn't say.
Bart Boswinkel: Maybe that's my misunderstanding of external and this is for you me and taught me and Peter, but also for the others, but.
Bart Boswinkel: See external is isn't that outside all see what this group develops as a policy and outside, I can org and everything else so external is what happens within a country.
Bart Boswinkel: or or say an external buddy and I would say the what is happening locally is definitely locally, meaning in territory and and by a relevant government of a territory.
Bart Boswinkel: Is is purely external from us developing this policy, and I can all and and and others, implementing and executing on the policy.
Bart Boswinkel: Is that a gradual difference between.
Bart Boswinkel: Or is there a difference between.
Bart Boswinkel: For example, the the significant name change, leading to the change in the country code and the designated language.
Bart Boswinkel: Or are we talking really about a Gray area.
Bart Boswinkel: And it's very difficult to to draw a line.
Bart Boswinkel: Go ahead Peter.
Peter Koch: yeah this is Peter again um yeah definitely Gray area, but maybe not too badly um I think I remember, we discussed the.
Peter Koch: How would the gamma get to know about the trigger events, and of course I Anna is tasked to watch the 3166 list.
Peter Koch: And if the IDF or unicode or whatever any any one of these organizations would decide to change the standards to invalidate more or less to these not to but, with the consequence of.
Peter Koch: That would also be noted.
Peter Koch: The language and script issue is is not as external to the policy, as I think you just suggested part because that that is exactly where we do consult.
Peter Koch: Initially we do consult the local community or in what matter, the government, the experts and so on and so forth, and, interestingly enough when there is a change there.
Peter Koch: I, and I would also be dependent on somebody to actively in form them because the language appearing in the 3166.
Peter Koch: Annex, so to speak, or the non normative part of that standard is not the only criterion.
Peter Koch: yeah and so that's that's where these these two or three have commonalities in their respective groups, like the the technical part the ISO part and whatever happens in the local community.
Bart Boswinkel: And then.
Bart Boswinkel: well.
Bart Boswinkel: I could you say.
Bart Boswinkel: That there is a criteria as soon as as, for example.
Bart Boswinkel: Again, there is a.
Bart Boswinkel: Question for an idea and CC dld or request for an idea and susie dld perform a territory and in a other designated language script combination.
Bart Boswinkel: And, as there was already one and I, you know, as you know, for example in in.
Bart Boswinkel: In India, they have, I believe 22 of these combinations.
Bart Boswinkel: It would be probably fairly easy and and for I can org to request.
Bart Boswinkel: To to validate.
Bart Boswinkel: Again, whether the question once you receive a request for a new idea and CC do these trying to validate whether the old one is still valid and meets the criteria.
Bart Boswinkel: And at the end of the day it is it's not producing northern say.
Bart Boswinkel: It is providing the the relevant documentation.
Bart Boswinkel: and probably and and, as you know, the.
Bart Boswinkel: issue may recall the requirement is that it needs to be a documentation provided by the Development government or say internationally recognized.
Bart Boswinkel: Language institute or something like this in the original language, so in that sense it's it you you're probably right that it's a paper it's a paper trail but it's definitely a baby will order, whether or not the language, for example, the designated language is still be designated language.
Bart Boswinkel: So it's yes, as soon as you because that's most of the time to read the trigger point as well for CC to these if there is a request for a new asked GCC to.
Bart Boswinkel: john can go ahead.
Jiankang Yao: hello, a I, I have some maybe some comments.
Bart Boswinkel: yeah go ahead.
Jiankang Yao: Okay, so basically I sing her maybe we are right at say like ideas to see to the stream as continuously me the old courage here by have a because there's a many maybe there are many criteria, so it from here, so we cannot use a decider a way which credit here, we should our master.
Jiankang Yao: master follow if we.
Jiankang Yao: Because his Castle this quirkier one by one, maybe we can select some and which which which character, we must follow me and some may be may May.
Jiankang Yao: We may Tony de follow because of this, a lawsuit a.
Jiankang Yao: SEC God, maybe it's Maybe it was really strong related to to control territory those relate to the government, so we meet, so we should be very cautious about a.
Jiankang Yao: Remove or retirement or press retirement processor so so my suggestion is with these slides create here, one by one, for example, a crater one maybe we must follow pretty cool, we must follow maybe credits three we don't need to follow that um.
Bart Boswinkel: yeah yeah.
Bart Boswinkel: But, but then again at the end of the day, I think the same question bill.
Bart Boswinkel: reese resurface once we address each of these these item, whether or not this specific criteria is a your view, if you think it should not be followed.
Bart Boswinkel: what's the distinction between that criteria and the others, but i'm fine going that way, because I think it's I know it's a hard question and, but what we need to address it, because people ask the easiest way out is to say, every.
Bart Boswinkel: All the criteria must be.
Bart Boswinkel: Just as important, but.
Bart Boswinkel: That that's the easy way that good that's one extreme point.
Bart Boswinkel: The other extreme point is none of them so once you have them yeah you can.
Bart Boswinkel: yeah whether or not it's internally consistent really doesn't matter So these are would say the two extremes and.
Bart Boswinkel: But let's let's follow Jenkins suggestion, if you agree, and you'll go ahead.
Anil Kumar Jain, NIXI India: and give back I need for the record.
Anil Kumar Jain, NIXI India: With the discussion, it appears that the approach which we are falling is correct, that we will go with criteria by criteria discuss them evaluate them and make it a policy.
Anil Kumar Jain, NIXI India: And maybe when the selection subgroup completes the work, then the whole picture will be clear, and at that particular time, I suggest that.
Anil Kumar Jain, NIXI India: question of Peter can be reconsider at that particular time till that particular time, I request, if you can park this particular question and we can take up at the end when we discuss each and every criteria which are important false collection of ideas, etc, to district.
Bart Boswinkel: yep Thank you so thanks for the suggestion young gun and I think it's a very valid way so.
Bart Boswinkel: that's if you agree.
Bart Boswinkel: let's go to the next item on say we've discussed the item.
Bart Boswinkel: Item one of the of the list.
Bart Boswinkel: The association of it is easy to deal with territory listed in Asia 3166 and the agreement at the time was.
Bart Boswinkel: That, if you recall from the 23rd or November call that if.
Bart Boswinkel: It should be stricken, as you can see, and that was can you scroll down, please came to page number 10.
Bart Boswinkel: And what we you discussed as well is is that the finals section so, starting with the removal starting online six until 11 they could be removed, so they are strict so just you.
Bart Boswinkel: So I just wanted to alert you to this.
Bart Boswinkel: I knew is that an old or new hand.
Anil Kumar Jain, NIXI India: No, sorry it was it world and i'm disabled.
Bart Boswinkel: yeah okay Thank you so.
Bart Boswinkel: I think that was the conclusion of the of the working group at the time or the sub group at a time so.
Bart Boswinkel: Line items three to six days stay.
Bart Boswinkel: If any comments questions, and let me do the general trick, if you agree with line item three to six, then for the final time, please check your Green marks.
Bart Boswinkel: And if you disagree check your red marks.
See.
I don't see any.
Bart Boswinkel: Red marks.
Bart Boswinkel: Back Okay, thank you then let's scroll down to Item number two.
Bart Boswinkel: Again, there is a general discussion.
Bart Boswinkel: Forget about it, we go to item 2.1.
Bart Boswinkel: And that's the event is a change of name of the country in English or French, and these are the names which I included, I shall 3166 and again the principle of association audience easy to do string the name of the territory.
Bart Boswinkel: again.
Bart Boswinkel: In principle, as you may recall the.
Bart Boswinkel: The.
Bart Boswinkel: We talking about a designated language of all over country and the designated language cannot include or must include at least one idea in character, one non ascii character, so that was one of the requirements.
Bart Boswinkel: From the main the main or the basic document so if unless the French or English name includes a non ascii country non ascii character for the name of the territory, effectively, this is not relevant so.
Bart Boswinkel: My My advice to you is that effectively this event does not trigger a.
Bart Boswinkel: ADN CS or the removal of it and CC dld any questions comments on that particular suggestion or questions around this particular item.
Bart Boswinkel: I don't see any hands up, if you agree that whether the name changes in French or English.
Bart Boswinkel: Really doesn't matter only the edge cases where there is a ascii character is included and that's referred and it's a designated language, etc, if you agree with that conclusion, please check your red or the green market if you disagree, please check your direct mark.
Bart Boswinkel: So, if you agree that it doesn't matter, please check your Green mark could disagree, please check your red mark or no common core no.
opinion.
Bart Boswinkel: Just a few green ticks and no red tix no comments Okay, thank you, then we go to the next one.
Bart Boswinkel: Again, the criteria, so the principal association of idea and CCM with the name of the charity event change of the name of the territory in the designated language, so this is is almost.
Bart Boswinkel: The name of the change of the country really changes, and if you can see what i've included right now, and that was after the previous the discussion, I believe, on ninth of November.
Bart Boswinkel: The criteria in the basic document is, as you can read it and CC to the string must be a meaningful representation of the name of the territory in the designate or meaningful REP so if it's no longer.
In.
Bart Boswinkel: A meaningful representation in a designated language.
Bart Boswinkel: Or the name sorry with of the name of the territory, then the.
Bart Boswinkel: bread or not it should remove and you can see, there are various sub criteria, so the name of the territory changes, so the name of the country effectively.
Bart Boswinkel: Or the.
Bart Boswinkel: Part of the name of the territory that denotes the territory so in the case of using beaters example of cats and dogs island or islands, then the.
Anil Kumar Jain, NIXI India: Important one here that's been invited by.
Bart Boswinkel: The.
Anil Kumar Jain, NIXI India: Kansas initial call.
Everybody.
Bart Boswinkel: I know, can you go you please.
Bart Boswinkel: Then the cats that it really denotes the name of the territory and again, this is a accepted way of expressing so.
Bart Boswinkel: The most used example is.
Bart Boswinkel: Your Kingdom of the Netherlands, etc, Netherlands is the part of the name that denotes the nate the territory.
Bart Boswinkel: You have several and then the third example of this one is the.
Bart Boswinkel: Short or.
Bart Boswinkel: Short form designation so that could be the two letter code so first go for the name of the territory if the name of the territory.
Bart Boswinkel: changes.
Bart Boswinkel: Should that so and that's a major safe yeah what is that.
Bart Boswinkel: yeah you can all think of your own the name of your own country and the full name of your or the short form name of your country if that changes in this in the designated language and the original or the ID ncc do the string is a.
Bart Boswinkel: meaningful representation of the full name or the short form name of your territory and I in a.
Bart Boswinkel: designated language should that results in a removal and as should that result in a retirement of the idea ncc do these three anybody.
Bart Boswinkel: Or is this a case where the name change of the territory is not important or significant enough john can go ahead.
Jiankang Yao: ma'am my suggestion is a based on the.
Jiankang Yao: Maybe orange nose CC to the managers application, maybe a summer, a country may like still keep his.
Jiankang Yao: name as the C to D, because they already familiar with this.
Jiankang Yao: pod name or occasion.
Jiankang Yao: So a break some so isolated maybe is should have based on the application so.
Jiankang Yao: So arena Cecilia many da maybe do not operate, but I can a strong, a strong layers removed way that are you forsake her maybe it's in a sense of problem so maybe cause some law law issues so it's better ask the.
Jiankang Yao: orange security manager to sublimated application to a change or modify or remove or repair mentor so maybe these are the negotiation process that's my point.
Bart Boswinkel: Thank you jack.
Bart Boswinkel: yeah go ahead.
Mirjana Tasić (.rs & .срб): yeah I mean speaking, I want to say similar thing is just as Duncan said.
Mirjana Tasić (.rs & .срб): Because the name of this idea CCTV is selected and.
Mirjana Tasić (.rs & .срб): approved by.
Mirjana Tasić (.rs & .срб): Interested parties something like this.
Mirjana Tasić (.rs & .срб): I will leave the decision to this interested parties suited mood today like to change their ideas, easy to do or leave it to be the same.
Bart Boswinkel: So it is it.
Bart Boswinkel: yeah.
Mirjana Tasić (.rs & .срб): yeah that's my first thought about this.
Bart Boswinkel: yeah and and if they would and if they say we want to change it should do this one be removed.
Mirjana Tasić (.rs & .срб): very moved and they will propose a new one.
Bart Boswinkel: yeah yeah but this one so so, if I understand you correctly and and john can as well, and maybe that's going back to our discussion in itself the changing designated language as an external event is not.
Bart Boswinkel: That should not trigger the retirement, but as soon as a new designated or a new selected string is proposed and required.
Bart Boswinkel: That should trigger trigger probably the removal of the.
Mirjana Tasić (.rs & .срб): Of the previous one.
Mirjana Tasić (.rs & .срб): yeah yeah yeah.
Mirjana Tasić (.rs & .срб): I will think in that way yeah.
Bart Boswinkel: yeah okay.
Mirjana Tasić (.rs & .срб): Thank you yeah Thank you yeah.
Peter.
Peter Koch: yeah thanks bars, this is Peter again i'm.
Peter Koch: I think this is basically the decision that goes to the significantly significantly interested parties to decide whether or not a changes see is.
Peter Koch: Whether the changes meaningful or whether that change makes the.
Peter Koch: The representation, meaning not meaningful anymore.
Peter Koch: If we look at changes that are made to the registered names and I understand that so named English and French, for the ISO standard, but there are certain attributes like republic of or state or Federated States of and so on and so forth.
Peter Koch: And that is pretty much following.
Peter Koch: The domestic attribution sorry declaration of the state.
Peter Koch: And the changes made because it was significant but necessary not doesn't necessarily mean that the old.
Peter Koch: The old name the old long name is his band or something so I i'm not sure that retirement is the right way and, if I remember correctly, from the previous call we had.
Peter Koch: Different some some of these triggers to needs to be further investigate it.
Peter Koch: And I think that's what.
Peter Koch: happened here.
Bart Boswinkel: But but but, as I said, that's kicking the can down the road, what would be the conclusion, what.
Peter Koch: point is, it is, it will the same situation might be decided differently in different countries, so when some country changes from kingdom to Republic or vice versa.
Peter Koch: Then one country might consider that very significant and the other might not or.
Bart Boswinkel: yeah but now you're thinking too much, in my view, you use the term significant name change, and this is the change in a designated language.
Bart Boswinkel: So you move so use your example only have.
Bart Boswinkel: Without so it's not about the full name so, including the Kingdom or Republic is really about the Netherlands, but Netherlands in Arabic and for whatever reason it changes from Arabic to Chinese.
Bart Boswinkel: So Netherlands in it was first Netherlands in Arabic and now all of a sudden, for whatever reason, the designated language in the Netherlands is.
Bart Boswinkel: janie's order yourself official language is Chinese so we would the Netherlands would be eligible for audiences to do these and no longer the Arabic version.
Bart Boswinkel: Would that trigger in your view is that a significant name change in the sense that you.
Bart Boswinkel: mentioned, or is it more along the lines.
Peter Koch: Of.
Peter Koch: What Mariana was suggesting.
Peter Koch: Peter seems to be in the wrong bus.
Bart Boswinkel: But, but using this example, I think that that's that's say from junk and as well, and from so if there is a significant name change as or a significant change in the name.
Bart Boswinkel: Maybe that confused you significant change in the name, because of the designated changing a designated language, and so the there is an application.
Bart Boswinkel: For a new idea and CC dld would that if you is that a way out of this so as long as there is no application.
Bart Boswinkel: Then that's fine as soon as there is an application, then a question becomes whether this is say the former ones will the former one is the.
Bart Boswinkel: If there is already a idea and CC dld is that in a designated language, of course, if that is still the designated language, because if you think about it.
Bart Boswinkel: Again, using India as an example, they have 22 designated language.
Bart Boswinkel: Languages and maybe in the future, they will add another one, and maybe even replace one of the designated languages with another one and that's a very significant interest in internal process, but if that happens, should that former one be removed retired.
Bart Boswinkel: And if I understand neon and junk and then as soon as a new one is applied, for then probably.
Bart Boswinkel: A check on the former ones might be useful or a reconfirmation, especially by say either say, by the same institutions that submitted to your original one or the provider the documentation is that a way out of this.
Bart Boswinkel: Anybody I hope I i'm not babbling too much.
Bart Boswinkel: Maybe yeah go ahead.
Mirjana Tasić (.rs & .срб): yeah I think i'm not quite sure, but I think that he couldn't be right wait for the situation.
Mirjana Tasić (.rs & .срб): So.
Mirjana Tasić (.rs & .срб): I will somehow be very happy if.
Mirjana Tasić (.rs & .срб): All into all interested parties which.
Mirjana Tasić (.rs & .срб): Were.
Mirjana Tasić (.rs & .срб): which took part in a delegation of the first ideas he can we take apart, also in delegation or consultant, something I don't know.
Mirjana Tasić (.rs & .срб): But somehow I think they don't the Community, which is there again Community interested parties, whatever it is, they have somehow to agree that the old city or the idea CCTV should be retired and the new one will be would be.
Mirjana Tasić (.rs & .срб): installed.
Mirjana Tasić (.rs & .срб): Somehow the this.
Mirjana Tasić (.rs & .срб): This process.
Mirjana Tasić (.rs & .срб): moves the decision from icon or not, for the.
Mirjana Tasić (.rs & .срб): Interested parties with.
Bart Boswinkel: yeah yeah.
Mirjana Tasić (.rs & .срб): Who will be interested in it yeah yeah, the situation could be very, very complicated.
Mirjana Tasić (.rs & .срб): yeah it is, it is difficult for you to judge anything about it.
Bart Boswinkel: yeah.
Mirjana Tasić (.rs & .срб): yeah definitely they just need the voltage documentation that this interesting interested parties agreed whatever it is so forth interested parties to make some agree.
Bart Boswinkel: yeah and and then maybe push it a little bit further, is that a requirement to get the new one, to provide the adequate documentation.
Mirjana Tasić (.rs & .срб): Of course I would I would go that way yeah I would expect that the.
Mirjana Tasić (.rs & .срб): Recommendation about it yeah.
Bart Boswinkel: So may I suggest that say for the next call what i'll try to do, based on on say this discussion that i'll put something, and that makes it easier.
Bart Boswinkel: for you to put some suggested language in the conclusion so we can look at it and have a discussion around it on the next call and sweat sweat john I see your hand is up.
Svitlana Tkachenko: Thank you just said that in this situation trigger event would be not changes of name of of the of the country, but requesting in you IDC God.
Svitlana Tkachenko: So we just change the as a trigger event.
Bart Boswinkel: yeah but or request a new idea and CC dld but say if that is because the designated language has changed, then that would cause a removal retirement so.
Svitlana Tkachenko: The list chicken are the length.
Svitlana Tkachenko: Of the SEC job as ideas, is it is already assigned it was as conscious event or to check whether the validation of the data name or other identity cities yeah yeah.
Bart Boswinkel: So let me Let me suggest and use red line I did I put something in the conclusion for the next one, not just around this one, but also the next one, because the next one is the related part.
Bart Boswinkel: And you follow the same effectively the same argument for the related but and for the.
Bart Boswinkel: The so the part of the name of the country, so this is the relevant part and also for the.
Bart Boswinkel: Short form designation.
Bart Boswinkel: Like in what we discussed like.
Bart Boswinkel: that's clearly a short form designation for upgrade you.
Bart Boswinkel: agree so it's.
Bart Boswinkel: May I suggest for Item number one to one.
Bart Boswinkel: That i'll provide some.
Bart Boswinkel: Language for the next call and that we discussed that language, based on this, the outcome of this discussion.
Svitlana Tkachenko: need to be quite good in fact yeah okay.
Bart Boswinkel: Thank you, then we move to the.
Bart Boswinkel: string must be in designated language of the territory so.
Bart Boswinkel: If the language loses the legal status it's a bit overlapping with with the previous one.
Bart Boswinkel: I would see again the trigger event, maybe that's.
Bart Boswinkel: So what Peter I see your comment, what do you mean by.
Peter Koch: I mean, I agree with that way forward that you that you just proposed.
Bart Boswinkel: Okay yeah.
Bart Boswinkel: So, and again what i've included is the documentation or the designated language so you can go back to the.
Bart Boswinkel: say this documentation and provide a reconfirmation in the other cases as well.
Bart Boswinkel: Again, the number for the final one is a designated language script combination, in some cases, the designated language may not change, but the script changes again using my example.
Bart Boswinkel: For example, from Cyrillic to Arabic.
Bart Boswinkel: Which is a event which causes.
Bart Boswinkel: That the meaningful representation is no longer in.
Bart Boswinkel: Cyrillic but has to be in Arabic and, as you can imagine the idea and the CCL D string representing.
Bart Boswinkel: or as a meaningful representation in the name of the name of the country is really is quite different from a meaningful representation in Arabic.
Bart Boswinkel: Again, the question.
Bart Boswinkel: Using the same criteria, maybe that's the way to address it, so if that's the case.
Bart Boswinkel: The the go back and provide.
Bart Boswinkel: documentation or ask documentation.
Bart Boswinkel: etc, but in principle, if there is say people if the.
Bart Boswinkel: The territory would want a new other idea and CCL D string in another script.
Bart Boswinkel: Still, the same name of the of the territory and saying in this designated language, then that should require.
Bart Boswinkel: documentation from the relevant parties involved is that the way for this one as well number four.
Bart Boswinkel: I see you add Atlanta If so, then I will provide.
Bart Boswinkel: document, and we, on page 21 sorry i'm scrolling my own version.
Bart Boswinkel: So that's the so that's for the next call.
Bart Boswinkel: i'll provide again say something similar, as for the other criteria, the next one is be the significantly interested parties.
Bart Boswinkel: This is the second read of that criteria that's in next speech.
Bart Boswinkel: Support for the selected string and.
Let me.
Bart Boswinkel: Can you go to page 25.
Bart Boswinkel: If you'll recall from the last meeting.
Bart Boswinkel: We discussed the question, do you support at the full six should be in position to revoke their support for the idea and country code temperature of the room at the time was yes.
Bart Boswinkel: Let me check with you whether you still have the opinion and just check your Green marks wherever you are still have the opinion that, in case the significantly interested parties of a country this the full significant interested parties, including the government, no longer support the.
Bart Boswinkel: No longer support the idea and CC do selected idea and CC to these three, it should be retired.
Bart Boswinkel: If you still agree, please check your Green marks.
Bart Boswinkel: If you object, please check your read.
or no comment no opinion.
Bart Boswinkel: Okay, thank you so that was in second reading.
Bart Boswinkel: The.
Bart Boswinkel: other parties and there is a difference between other parties in the sense or.
Bart Boswinkel: If you look at the significant interested parties and the way it's been defined.
Bart Boswinkel: Okay screw.
Bart Boswinkel: up, please.
Bart Boswinkel: On bay.
Bart Boswinkel: that's page number 22.
yeah.
Be support.
Bart Boswinkel: The as line item 20.
Bart Boswinkel: yeah.
Bart Boswinkel: As you can see, this is how.
Bart Boswinkel: The significant the interested parties are defined, based on the framework of interpretation and one of it, it definitely includes the government or territorial authority.
Bart Boswinkel: governmental authority for the charity associated with the idea and.
Bart Boswinkel: CD to the stream ought of.
Bart Boswinkel: Secondly, other individuals said direct materials substantial illegitimate did Mr demonstrable interest.
Bart Boswinkel: And then on the next page.
Bart Boswinkel: You see some additional refinements of these two categories.
Bart Boswinkel: It is very clear that the relevant government or relevant governmental authority.
Bart Boswinkel: is part of the significant for the interested parties.
Bart Boswinkel: And, in some cases, the only one.
Bart Boswinkel: So would it be enough if only the government in your view, would require a change or.
Bart Boswinkel: and say, in the case of you have the government and other parties, or should it be the full and all interested parties significant is interested parties as defined so if there is a so no longer a support.
Bart Boswinkel: It should be all in significant interested parties that no longer support the.
Bart Boswinkel: selected idea nct LDC.
Bart Boswinkel: Anybody.
Bart Boswinkel: So, should a subset of the significant interested parties be able.
Bart Boswinkel: To.
Bart Boswinkel: ask for the retirement of the idea and selected audiences you tell the story.
Bart Boswinkel: idea I see your hand is up.
Hadia’s iPhone: Thank you, Bart.
Hadia’s iPhone: And I would say that all significant parties, including government, of course, and the reason, if you decide on a subset.
Hadia’s iPhone: How big is this subset you know need needs to be like if we have four parties is is is only one saying no enough to block it, or or maybe three know how do you define the subset and especially that significant parties might differ from one country to.
Hadia’s iPhone: Another right.
Hadia’s iPhone: Though there is definitely a defined definition, but, but the organization and entities differ from one country to another.
Hadia’s iPhone: For that, I would say.
Hadia’s iPhone: I would say all significant parties which.
Hadia’s iPhone: include the government some.
Hadia’s iPhone: a subset would alter yeah Thank you.
Bart Boswinkel: Thank you, maybe and sweet Donna your hand is up go ahead.
Svitlana Tkachenko: As I just want to agree this idea, because we otherwise we should find who for for obviously significant, as the body is more important or less important and.
Svitlana Tkachenko: significant investment in difference, not only from country to country, but from during the time because the best idea was selected was 10 years ago 01 set of significant the parties, and now there may be asked to set up significant interested party.
Svitlana Tkachenko: So we can't sell ads them from this this the great pool of an interested party should be some kind of agreement between all all part of people who are interested in idea and security or or are with people that are not interested in using this idea.
Bart Boswinkel: Thank you hi john I see your hand is up again good.
Hadia’s iPhone: let's thank you because actually.
Hadia’s iPhone: raises an important point here but significant parties might change over time, but and then, when the when the CCTV was first established there was a set of significant parties defined and those parties actually were the ones behind this fabulous.
Hadia’s iPhone: Of the CC.
eld.
Hadia’s iPhone: This list I guess is not maintained anywhere right like if the if the list of significant parties changes.
Hadia’s iPhone: Do we have a document that says, you know now, this is the list of significant parties that this country has changes well that we don't right we don't and.
Bart Boswinkel: The only thing you will.
Bart Boswinkel: have this way, but the only thing you will have is is effectively two things one is a minimum at a minimum and, as you can see from a line item 11 to 12.
Bart Boswinkel: At a minimum.
Bart Boswinkel: that the relevant government public authority needs to be involved and expresses its non objection, maybe in case of in have and that that could be an alternative as well, in case of a change of name or say that it should be retired at a minimum expresses its support, so a higher threshold.
Bart Boswinkel: In case of retirement.
Bart Boswinkel: Secondly.
Bart Boswinkel: The say there is documentation that the.
Bart Boswinkel: Who are involved as such in as significant the interested parties and it varies by country, as I said in some countries, it will and shut it will only be the government.
Anil Kumar Jain, NIXI India: and
Bart Boswinkel: Especially in those cases way the idea ncc to the string is being.
Bart Boswinkel: defined through a legislative process.
Bart Boswinkel: which in some cases happens so that's that's an additional that's one of the reasons why you want to have a government involved.
Bart Boswinkel: And and and need to have a government involved and the second thing is probably the note, I wanted to point out, and I think it addresses your point idea number line item 15 you Nancy should not be required.
Bart Boswinkel: etc so it's it.
Bart Boswinkel: Should not in a way, unanimous, but a vast majority, and it may change over time.
Bart Boswinkel: I hope this addresses but.
Bart Boswinkel: Again, let me just check with, and this is, do you agree that, in principle, however, defined or whomever they are only the full set of see and you'll go ahead, you have a question.
Anil Kumar Jain, NIXI India: Thank you, but I agree with that unanimity should not be required for such cases.
Anil Kumar Jain, NIXI India: But at the same time, they should not be any objection by any party for these changes.
Anil Kumar Jain, NIXI India: case then.
Anil Kumar Jain, NIXI India: There is any objection at that particular time, I think we have to reconsider whether we will learn to add, or we don't.
Bart Boswinkel: yeah okay that'd be that'd be.
Bart Boswinkel: I think.
Bart Boswinkel: Let me take a step back.
Bart Boswinkel: As a starting point, that, as in principle that the government.
Bart Boswinkel: should be involved.
Bart Boswinkel: In say the return request for retirement, if you agree, because of his role as significant be interested party and its role in the process as well yeah go ahead, I see your hand is up.
Hadia’s iPhone: Yes, I just raised, my hand to say that governments must.
be involved yeah.
Hadia’s iPhone: yeah.
Hadia’s iPhone: yeah so.
Bart Boswinkel: If you agree, so it must be involved it's not limited.
Bart Boswinkel: But must be involved.
Bart Boswinkel: If you agree so full is very clear, but it must be involved, do you agree, if you agree, then please check your Green checks if you disagree, and please check your red.
Bart Boswinkel: I see green tix good.
Bart Boswinkel: and related and.
Bart Boswinkel: Should it be a non should a non objections suffice, or should it be in support of the.
Bart Boswinkel: Of the retirement.
Bart Boswinkel: If you that you think.
Bart Boswinkel: Support is required, please check your Green tech.
Bart Boswinkel: Come on, even.
Bart Boswinkel: If you think I know go ahead.
Anil Kumar Jain, NIXI India: Thank you, but your question is not clear, please tell us you know when the full support, you are asking to be included here.
Bart Boswinkel: So what I mean is so in both the red, if you look at line item 11.
Bart Boswinkel: On this page.
It stays.
Bart Boswinkel: relevant government public authority needs to be involved we've addressed that point and at a minimum its non objections should be documented.
Bart Boswinkel: My question is, in case of retirement i'm checking whether it should be non objection because that's something different than explicit support.
Anil Kumar Jain, NIXI India: For the retirement.
Bart Boswinkel: And should it be support the retirement that's my question.
Bart Boswinkel: So the government is involved is non objection enough documented, or should it be the explicit support for the removal retirement.
Bart Boswinkel: And if you agree, it should be a so that's a higher threshold to make that clear.
Bart Boswinkel: I see, and if you disagree, please check your or no common opinion, please check your.
Anil Kumar Jain, NIXI India: marks so.
Bart Boswinkel: Okay that's what respect to the role of the government so in cases.
Bart Boswinkel: So that's that's important because that has a role in the documentation and the required documentation.
Bart Boswinkel: I think, and now the final one is it should not be in cases where it's not just the government, the significant be interested parties should be involved, but humanity is not required so sections 14 to 17.
Bart Boswinkel: or line items 14 to 17.
Bart Boswinkel: Do also.
Bart Boswinkel: apply to the.
Bart Boswinkel: retirement of an idea ncc deal the, so this is line item is 14 to 17 as they are stated, right now, they apply in principle for the.
Bart Boswinkel: Support for a selected string.
Bart Boswinkel: But it also applies to the situation of significantly interested parties.
Bart Boswinkel: If you agree.
Bart Boswinkel: So first, if you have do you have any questions.
Bart Boswinkel: On this item.
Bart Boswinkel: I don't see any if you agree.
Bart Boswinkel: Please check your.
Bart Boswinkel: Green marks so line item 14 to 17 also apply to the cases of significantly interested party to all.
Bart Boswinkel: Other than government.
Bart Boswinkel: Yes, Okay, thank you.
Bart Boswinkel: wow with this, I think we run through the items.
Bart Boswinkel: And then the idea and CCL the muscle by to the technical criteria we briefly discuss it and we wait.
Bart Boswinkel: For the outcome of the variant management group with this one, whether they that's the important one.
Bart Boswinkel: I knew said lana back to you, we covered a lot of i've seen we've.
Anil Kumar Jain, NIXI India: Thank you, but I think today we have covered.
Anil Kumar Jain, NIXI India: But a.
Anil Kumar Jain, NIXI India: lot of ground.
Anil Kumar Jain, NIXI India: The next The next item is the next meeting, the next meeting.
Anil Kumar Jain, NIXI India: But I personally feel it should be on 21st of December.
Look.
Bart Boswinkel: You have.
Bart Boswinkel: Such a nice efficient Secretary it's already changed if you look at your screen.
Anil Kumar Jain, NIXI India: Alright, so it is 21st of December.
Anil Kumar Jain, NIXI India: yeah and next meeting will be on 18th of January.
Anil Kumar Jain, NIXI India: That is, after the holidays.
and
Anil Kumar Jain, NIXI India: The new year holidays and all those things, and so this is for the information of all.
Anil Kumar Jain, NIXI India: Sub group members any other business by any Members.
Anil Kumar Jain, NIXI India: And, in case it is not there.
Anil Kumar Jain, NIXI India: I declare the closure of this particular call of the subgroup on.
Anil Kumar Jain, NIXI India: This election, thank you very much you're all and have a nice day, thank you.
Bart Boswinkel: Thank you bye bye.
Kimberly Carlson: Thank you.
Kenny Huang: bye Thank you bye.
Joke Braeken: well.