Gisella Gruber-White:Welcome to the ALAC Monthly Meeting on Thursday 20 December 2012 at 1600 UTC.
Gisella Gruber-White:Agenda: https://community.icann.org/x/poFQAg
Alan Greenberg:The GNSO Council meeting is currently scheduled to last 2.5 hours (a VERY unusual extension from the normal 2 hours) due to the number of substantive issues on the agenda. That maps to 1.5 hours into the ALAC meeting. I will try to keep an I on this chat, but Skype is likely a better way to get my attention if there is some urgent need for my input.
Natalia Enciso:Hello!
Olivier Crepin-Leblond:Thanks Alan
Olivier Crepin-Leblond:If we ened you may we type it here & you'll switch calls?
Garth Bruen:@Staff, FYI the link for "other times" has the wrong hour
Evan Leibovitch:ZZZZZZZZ
Julia Charvolen:thank you Garth, we will change that
Eduardo Diaz:¡Hola a Todos!
Maureen Hilyard:Good morning Cheryl
Maureen Hilyard:and others
Fatima Cambronero:hello everyone
Ri:ya ya
Carlton Samuels:Hi all
Cheryl Langdon-Orr:hi all
Matt Ashtiani:hello everyone! welcome!
Evan Leibovitch:Tijani is very faint
Silvia Vivanco:Cannot hear Tijani
Carlton Samuels:Tijani VERY low
Holly Raiche:garth - shall we take this off line - I'll look into it
Evan Leibovitch:Garth, is your issue one that could be done as email -- does the issue of the Sydney office require *ALAC* intervention?
Tijani BEN JEMAA:I'm so sorry
Tijani BEN JEMAA:but it's the phone lines quality
Olivier Crepin-Leblond:no problem. Just speak loudly. I know ho whard it is when the phone line is faint
Garth Bruen:@Holly thanks
Evan Leibovitch:That's the nice thing about us being global :-)
Garth Bruen:@Evan, it's troubling in the context of everything else I'm finding. Following on your concern that "this can't wait until Beijing"
Heidi Ullrich:AI: https://community.icann.org/display/atlarge/At-Large+and+ALAC+Action+Items+14-19+October+Toronto+Meeting
Evan Leibovitch:@Garth agreed.
JJS:Olivier and All: my apologies for connecting late.
Silvia Vivanco:My call was dropped on my AIS
Silvia Vivanco:1) SV to contact Indian ALS - in Progress. I have contacted APRALO leaders to organize a way forward to better engage them in APRALO
Heidi Ullrich:There were 28 attendees on the R3 webinar. I believe that was the highest number on an At-Large Briefing call
Carlton Samuels:@Garth: Maybe you might wish to tell your Aussie Registrar to follow a rule I use: If he wants the issue to be 'official' then record it. And liberally copy everybody in the chain, including folks in the head shop.
Silvia Vivanco:2) AI: Completed. I have contacted Bart and he has informed me that the IDN WG can indeed join the ccTLD
Silvia Vivanco:mailist
Evan Leibovitch:About R3: The turnout was very gratifying. Too bad that not many of them spoke, we were hoping for more Q&A
Silvia Vivanco:I have contacted the APRALO WG to inform them of this
Garth Bruen:@Carlton, he's concerned about his job, and now he's even more paranoid
Julia Charvolen:Please state your name before transcription purposes, thank you
Silvia Vivanco:cannot hear Matt
Silvia Vivanco:yes
Carlton Samuels:I can't hear Matt!
Silvia Vivanco:much better
Evan Leibovitch:Sorry, which ALS application was withdrawn for rework?
Carlton Samuels:Much better, thanks Matt
Silvia Vivanco:Tchad ALS
Evan Leibovitch:Ah, thanks
Silvia Vivanco:is reorganizing internally
Holly Raiche:@Matt - I have responded on the ISOC Philippines chapter
Silvia Vivanco:Yes Holly we received your message . Thank you!!
Matt Ashtiani:@holly - thank you, i will look for your email shortly and follow up
Heidi Ullrich:Thanks, Holly!!
Silvia Vivanco:Not they are not present
Julia Charvolen:Apologies from Jose Arce
JJS:Cheryl, could you please turn up your microphone a bit?
Olivier Crepin-Leblond:it is night time and if she speaks any louder she'll wake up the whole neighbourhood
Wolf Ludwig:Sorry for being late -- conflicting calls ;-)
Julia Charvolen:Wolf Ludwig joined the call
JJS:oh, then it's the distance between Australia and France...
Heidi Ullrich:Apologies for the ES channel issue. It has been solved.
Evan Leibovitch:Olivier, the issue is not precisely about the Red Cross and Olympic Committee. There is a request from the GAC to extend protection for internationally-recognized NGOs, (the kind that would normally found under the .int TLD such as WIPO, ILO, IPU etc)
Olivier Crepin-Leblond:this is well understood -- and we have a comment to file on this
Alan Greenberg:I am trying something new today -- updating GNSO Liaison report in real time. SUppressing notification to wathers, but it is there if you look at it - https://community.icann.org/x/wIQi
Wolf Ludwig:EURALO is posted and done for this year!
Garth Bruen:Thanks Evan
Julia Charvolen:Juan Manuel Rojas disconnected
Garth Bruen:@Oliver even if I mess up call timing?
Cheryl Langdon-Orr:thanks for the link Alan
Garth Bruen:Items Evan referenced:https://community.icann.org/display/NARALO/NARALO+Chair+Reports+on+ICANN+Compliance+-+November+2012
Ri:haha
Garth Bruen:clap clap clap
Heidi Ullrich:LOL - Olivier!
Silvia Vivanco::)
Heidi Ullrich:https://community.icann.org/display/alacpolicydev/At-Large+ALAC+Demarche+to+ICANN+Workspace
Heidi Ullrich:Demarche
Garth Bruen:De Marche
Heidi Ullrich:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D%C3%A9marche
Wolf Ludwig:As far as I have seen, most suggestions were incorporated by Rinalia's draft -- what looks good.
Julia Charvolen:Juan Manuel Rojas joined the call again
Garth Bruen:I was thinking about the market, "de marche"
Silvia Vivanco:Los interpretes no pueden interpretar a Yaovi en Espanol
Silvia Vivanco:su linea no esta bien
Garth Bruen:Hopefully the Demarche is not bon marche
Heidi Ullrich::)
Holly Raiche:Thanks EvanandCarlton - I agree we send it ias a letter. Certainly, the issue is important - and will be more so with Beijing and the visa issues that raises
Garth Bruen:Rather bonne marche
Carlton Samuels:Chair to Chair, copy...
Evan Leibovitch:Agree with Olivier. Letter to CEO, Cc to Board PPc.
Carlton Samuels:THansk JJS, +1
Holly Raiche:Agree Chiar to Chair, cc to Fadi and PPc
Evan Leibovitch:that wiorks for me
Heidi Ullrich:Olivier - would you like staff to take the temperature of the room?
Yaovi Atohoun:i agree
JJS:@Olivier, my suggestion: "Finally, you may wish to consider asking the PPC (Public Participation Committee) to invite the ALAC, or a designated representative from the ALAC, to take part in the work which will be carried out on these important issues."
JJS:@Staff, as Olivier is busy conducting this meeting, could you kindly take note of my suggestion above, and use it if he approves? Thanks.
Evan Leibovitch:+1 JJS
Matt Ashtiani:@JJS - i have included your suggestion in the notes and will follow up after the meeting
JJS:@Matt: thank you.
Natalia Enciso:I have to excuse myself, have an urgent matter to solve now at work. Sorry but have to go now.
Heidi Ullrich:Please refresh your agenda page. The agenda has been updated.
Heidi Ullrich:A public comment from the ccNSO is expected shortly on the R3
Olivier Crepin-Leblond:Thank you Natalia
Cheryl Langdon-Orr:yes that one you will get a rreaction to
Evan Leibovitch:Regarding the new GNSO constituency application or cybercafes.... It was not quite NIMBY (not in my backyard) because everyone said they belonged in the GNSO. But nobody wanted them in THEIR constituency group.
Holly Raiche:Intresting to hear about the ccNSO - thanks Evan
Evan Leibovitch:Everyone said it was merited but that it ought to be in some OTHER SG. So rather than NIMBY it was, SOBBY (Some Other Bugger's Back Yard)
Cheryl Langdon-Orr:LOL Evan
Holly Raiche:Should we wait until we hear back from Alan on where the issue is up to?
Evan Leibovitch:yes.
Dev Anand Teelucksingh:apologies....got disconnected when my electricty and net connection went out for the past 40 mins. Now back on the call
Cheryl Langdon-Orr:ergh Dev glad your back on
Holly Raiche:Olivier - when you report on WCIT - mention, as you did on the APRALO call, the mixed delegations
Olivier Crepin-Leblond:indeed
Carlton Samuels:+1 JJS, we must account 'nuance' in these matters
Carlton Samuels:In context, the LACNIC communique finds my favour
Heidi Ullrich:Please refresh your agenda pages as the agenda has been updated.
Heidi Ullrich:At-Large at the WCIT workspace: https://community.icann.org/display/alacexcomm/At-Large+Activities+at+the+WCIT+-+December+2012
Heidi Ullrich:This workspace includes several usesful sources of information
Julia Charvolen:Avri Doria joined Adobe Connect
Heidi Ullrich:Thanks, Julia. Welcome Avri.
Holly Raiche:And Australia, please
Sandra Hoferichter:Some more backgroundinformation from Wolfgang Kleinwächter:http://www.circleid.com/posts/20121217_wcit_and_internet_governance_harmless_resolution_or_trojan_horse/
Carlton Samuels:@Spam: They want us all to believe that everybody just reads headers!
Carlton Samuels:Here's what I wrote in the At-Large Skype chat pertaining to the DPI issue: "Yes, Evan gets it. Here's the thing and lets use the DPI matter for argument's sake. That DPI kerfuffle is purely bullshit. Think the movie Casablanca. Most everybody in Dubai knows a Captain Renault moment when they hear it: "I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here"...this said as he took his winnings from the man. What was being played out you ask? Purely that the proposers, some of them card-carrying members of 'rendition' teams, are trumping their 'morally superior' others and 'go open' for tools they know damn well their 'betters' already deploy in one or other guise. These guys who are signatories to the DPI proposal read and watch whats going on in 3-4 languages. They know that the British government, likely purveyors of enlightened governance in far off places and territories, proposed a law that literally compelled DPI! They know the thinking in LHR is not far from theirs.
Carlton Samuels:They know hypocrisy when they hear it. ETNO proposed changes in the ITRs that would have given operators, now a mixed bag of private and public entities, pretty much all the cover they need to use DPI tools. They know words have meanings. They have a sense of what must be done when they read words used such as 'verify' and 'validate'. Sure, there are other interests. But it would serve their top-of-mind and coincident ones to go along with ETNO. ETNO as spear chuckers find common ground with the control freaks! The [insert the 'badboy' country here] and all that 'unsavoury' lot are not all common fools. Its not that they have a preference to be "open" on objective. They just don't give a tinker's damn what we think. Our fellas now....well....
Sandra Hoferichter:If they are not aware of the multistakeholder modell and do not understand the benefit, it needs more capacity building efforts in this countys. ICANN should improve its efforts in this regard
Cheryl Langdon-Orr:Indeed @ Sandra
Heidi Ullrich:Avri is also on the call. She was at the WCIT as well...
Cheryl Langdon-Orr:and I suspect Sally and her team are well aware (now) of just that...
Sandra Hoferichter::)sorry for referring to an ICANN Academy
Carlton Samuels:Lost my connection
Heidi Ullrich:Will call you back, Carlton
Carlton Samuels:Thanks Heidi
avri:Hi, yeah, i was there for both WTSA and WCIT. I have a different view than OCL.
avri:ICANN was not at the WCIT. And the WCIT was not about ICANN, at all.
Carlton Samuels:@Avri: Can you do voice? WOuld love to hear....soon as I'm back on please :-)
Evan Leibovitch:@JJS... thankfully, most graphite in pencils doesn' t contain lead anymore
Sandra Hoferichter:most graphite in pencils doesn' t contain lead anymore ---what does it mean:)
Holly Raiche:From wwhat I heard, some of the rposals did suggest the ITU should have a role in naming/numbering - which is ICANN. Not sure how far that got
avri:Carlton: I suppose I could, I am only using Adobe. but I don't see much reason in it.
Carlton Samuels:Back on voice bridge
Heidi Ullrich:Welcome back, Carlton
avri:ICANN, like civil society, was a meta-delegation
Wolf Ludwig:Strongly agree, JJ!
Holly Raiche:No - it absolutely does NOT sound mild. We had a filtering proposal here - which has been abandoned - when both the technical and other issues with DPI were appreciated
Cheryl Langdon-Orr:were concerned about DPI in the antipodeas as well JJS rest assured
avri:Holly: yes some of the contribution coming in were. but once the truce between ITU and ICANN was sung, peace ensued and ICANN issues were actually off the docket. the rest of the Interent was still on the agenda, but not ICANN, that turf was off limits.
Carlton Samuels:@Avri: I understand your reluctance but I wish you would speak though..
Evan Leibovitch:@JJS +1
Heidi Ullrich:Avri, would you like a dial out/
Heidi Ullrich:?
Holly Raiche:@ Arvi - thanks - and nice it was off the agenda
Yaovi Atohoun:I am disconnected
Carlton Samuels:@JJS: DPI is a GRAVE matter personally. What I'm very much in favour of is a 'full and frank' discussion on it
Heidi Ullrich:we could invite Fadi and Sally to such a panel or webinar
avri:nope, i think i am fne, computer should work for talking when i need to.
Heidi Ullrich:will dial out to you, Yaovi
Heidi Ullrich:as wll as the GSE Vice Presidents who were at the WCIT
Wolf Ludwig:Speak up, Tijani, please!
Cheryl Langdon-Orr:I can not hear Tijani at all sorry
Juan Manuel Rojas:It sounds far away Tijani
Heidi Ullrich:Tijani - we need a way to make ICANN more international. WE also need IANA to be more international.
Cheryl Langdon-Orr:thanks Heidi
Heidi Ullrich:Tijani - I am against any control of the internet
Heidi Ullrich:Tijani - I think we need to work together in At-Large to raise awareness in ICANN
Yaovi Atohoun:i am back
Heidi Ullrich:Tijani - we need to do more to link our internet and the other views (confirm)
Heidi Ullrich:Welcome back, Yaovi
Cheryl Langdon-Orr:Thanks Heidi those points are VERY important Tijani YES
Heidi Ullrich:Good connection, Yaovi.
Tijani BEN JEMAA:Thank you Heidi
Tijani BEN JEMAA:and sorry for the bad quality of my line
avri:Carlton: DPI has been a fact of life for a while. Definately should have serious conversatons on it, but more and ore people are doing it all the time.
avri:The ITU will not take over the Interent, it will just control it thoguh maybe round about paths.
avri:A WCIt, the [camel][ITU] got its [nose][hooks] into the [tent][interent]
Yaovi Atohoun:Sorry that I am disconnected again
avri:i had not need to speak, i thought typed comments was sufficinet.
Julia Charvolen:We will dial out to you
Alan Greenberg:On call now.
Carlton Samuels:@Avri: Absolutely!
Alan Greenberg:Where are we in agenda?
Yaovi Atohoun:Sorry that I am disconnected again
Olivier Crepin-Leblond:WCIT
Evan Leibovitch:#7
Evan Leibovitch:Welcome
Carlton Samuels:@JJS: There is a expression they used in the black community in Washington DC "Word"!
Heidi Ullrich:Dialing you back, Yaovi
Yaovi Atohoun:I am disconnected
Carlton Samuels:Hence my call for a "full and frank discussion" discussion re DPI.
Heidi Ullrich:Yaovi, Adigo is getting RNA for you
Yaovi Atohoun:Please ask the operator to try +229 97891228
Heidi Ullrich:Avri - I think having a longer conversation is a good idea. This is only the first act
Heidi Ullrich:there are several more events in the next couple of year
Heidi Ullrich:s
JJS:@Avri, your voice is being filtered through a federal agency, it seems :-)
Juan Manuel Rojas::)
Yaovi Atohoun:I am back
Heidi Ullrich:There is a lot of work on furthering the discussion. Nothing is over on the treaty
Heidi Ullrich:Who knows what other resolutions will be made
Heidi Ullrich:ICANN is relatively safe on that front for as long as hte Treaty holds up
Heidi Ullrich:I think it is good for ICANN....
Heidi Ullrich:I think that ICANN will be under the microcope after...
Yaovi Atohoun:I am back. thanks
Heidi Ullrich:Olivier - is this Webinar only for At-Large?
Heidi Ullrich:AI: At-Large to host community wide webinar on WCIT outcomes and next steps in January. Nigel Hickson to be invited.
Heidi Ullrich:AI: OCL will draft first statement on WCIT
avri:I dialed in for the report. I realize it was foolish of me to expect the talk part of adobe to work
Heidi Ullrich:Avri, would you like a dial out?
Olivier Crepin-Leblond:Another AI: FCWG to work on a more extensive statement following up on issues raised in WCIT
Garth Bruen:Just had to restart adobe
Alan Greenberg:Can I have two minutes in AOB for a very late GNSO report?
Carlton Samuels:Dear Colleagues, I shall have to go at the hour if I must make the WHOIS call at 2p
Heidi Ullrich:Carlton, the call with Jean-Francois is in one hour.
Heidi Ullrich:if that is the Whois call you are talking about
Carlton Samuels:@Heidi. Yes, at 2p Eastern
Heidi Ullrich:ok. Carlton
Wolf Ludwig:Have to leave and feed the kids and cat -- good bye and joyful seasonal holidays to all of you!
Olivier Crepin-Leblond:Happy Holidays Wolf!
Carlton Samuels:Thanks Wolf. Same to you and yours.
Heidi Ullrich:Frohe Weihnachten, Wolf!
Wolf Ludwig:Thanks folks -- pleased to hear and meet you soon again!
JJS:(for Evan: I just sent you a line on a separate chat here)
Eduardo Diaz:I will have to leave the meeting. I have another commitment to attend too. Thanks you all and Happy Holidays!
Carlton Samuels:Dropping off now. Have a good break, all of you!
Heidi Ullrich:Happy Holidays, Carlton!
Carlton Samuels:Happy Holidays
Cheryl Langdon-Orr:Seasons Greetings Carlton
avri:it is true, there is not longer such a thing as a decsion that can't be undone.
JJS:@Alan +1
Evan Leibovitch:The envorinment may have changed, but the logic has not
Alan Greenberg:I was trying to imply that a discussion could be driven by the ALAC and not olny the periphery.
avri:if an ALS feels harmed by it, i do not see why they don't ask to have the RG opinion changed.
JJS:again, @Alan +1
avri:but if someone in the ANgWG write a statement, i will put it to the group for work/consensus.
Evan Leibovitch:Absolutely. What would be useful are any arguments that add to the ones that have already been considered. Repeating previously-advanced arguments and expecting a different outcome is not reasonable
Sandra Hoferichter:https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/ICANNAcademyWGSurvey
Dev Anand Teelucksingh:@Alan, @Evan, I recall that on the last ANgWG call, that there was a possibility of having a webinar/conference call with those persons making comments re: private/closed registration of generic words as a TLD
Evan Leibovitch:@Dev... I have have missed that call for a webinar. I welcome that.
Alan Greenberg:@Evan, I am one of those who on SOME occasions, choose not to tilt at large and un-movable windmills. This windmill may now have significantly weakend foundations and we *may* wish to do some new tilting...
avri:Evan, but the world has changed. I spent a month in ITUland and was frequently reminded of the fact that logic is truly multi-valued. Same is true in ICANN.
Yaovi Atohoun:Disconnected on 9.d (agenda) Please could the operator call me on +229 97891228?
Julia Charvolen:We are dialing out to you Yaovi
Yaovi Atohoun:I am back on the call
Dev Anand Teelucksingh:I think a webinar on the issue be organised ASAP...I suspect it fell thorugh the cracks...
JJS:@Ri : super!
Ri:merci!
Heidi Ullrich:Matt has informed me that out of 29 ALAC members/liaisons/Regional officers - only 11 have been completed....
Heidi Ullrich:Garth, an announcement on the status of the Sydney office will be made shortly.
Cheryl Langdon-Orr:Ive been doiconnected
Cheryl Langdon-Orr:disconnected
Heidi Ullrich:calling you back, Cheryl
Silvia Vivanco:who's speaking? Cannot hear
Juan Manuel Rojas:Tijani?
Heidi Ullrich:Tijani - Toronto - was asked to leave his hotel room at 10 am on Friday
JJS:It's Tijani speaking.
Heidi Ullrich:They want us to leave us on Friday, Friday is a working day for us
JJS:This is an example which can be included in Olivier's letter to Steve.
Yaovi Atohoun:@Tijani: could you speak a bit loudly?
Heidi Ullrich:For the next meeting in Beijing, they asked me to leave on Friday. There is no flight on Friday other than a late flight. They wanted me to pay for Saturday
JJS:(I too had to pay the last night in Toronto, at a high rate!)
JJS:Olivier, this fits under your next letter to Steve...
JJS:We are much volunteers as are Board members. I agree with Tijani.
Garth Bruen:@Tijani: I am creating suplimental reports on travel issues and soliciting comments from At-Large members. I hope I get a more detailed statement from you for the report.
Evan Leibovitch:+1 Tijani, Alan, etc
Ri:++1
Garth Bruen:@Heidi, so they moved it but didn't update the website?
JJS:@Alan +1, and it's time ICANN realized that the volunteer factor is so crucial to its relevance.
Cheryl Langdon-Orr:ABSOLUTLY!!!!
avri:Alan, does 'penny wise, pund foolish' work?
Evan Leibovitch:As Alan says, this represents a continuing attitude that ICANN sees its subsidizing our participation as charity
avri:i mean 'penny wise, pound foolish'
Sandra Hoferichter:At least I was always successful asking for a late check out that day
Heidi Ullrich:@Garth, an announcemet is expected shortly.
JJS:@Olivier: this reinforces my suggestion that you add a couple of lines on this specific point in your letter to Steve.
avri:yeah, and i fought for that Saturday departure.
Garth Bruen:I think a "buffer" period for meetings is at a minimum humane
avri:the whole call was worth listeinign too.
Sandra Hoferichter:Sorry I have to leave taking care for my daughters dinner, wish you all the best for Christmas and a happy start into 2013!
Evan Leibovitch:Alan, I volunteer to work with you in the TMCH strawman, both on process and subsrance
Garth Bruen:@Sandra, at least your kids will eat
JJS:(anticipating on the end of this 'phone conference) I wish you a wonderful holiday season, and success and happiness in 2013!
JJS:(to All)
Evan Leibovitch:Best to all.. Take a break from ICANN for a while ;-)
Cheryl Langdon-Orr:Indeed Greatings of the Season to All
Heidi Ullrich:Happy Holidays and all the best for 2013.
Sandra Hoferichter::) garth
Heidi Ullrich:An exciting year awaits!
Juan Manuel Rojas:@Olivier.. Time's up!
Juan Manuel Rojas:hahaha
Juan Manuel Rojas:Thanks to all
Juan Manuel Rojas:Greetings to all!
Garth Bruen:Have a safe mayan doomsday
Fatima Cambronero:happy holidays for all of you!
Maureen Hilyard:All the best of the season to all. Look forward to 2013
Sandra Hoferichter:bye, bye
Juan Manuel Rojas:Enjoy the end of the world!
Ri:bye!
Silvia Vivanco:Happy Holidays all!
Dev Anand Teelucksingh:Happy Holidays/ Merry Christmas!
Juan Manuel Rojas:hahaha
Fatima Cambronero:bye
Juan Manuel Rojas:Happy Holidays!
Matt Ashtiani:goodbye everyoe, thank you! happy holidays and happy new year!
