Dev Anand Teelucksingh:       Okay, very well.  We’re not current, so we just want to have a discussion of the topics.  Okay, so LACRALO bylaws diversity, I should say that just to quickly summarize, we have several ideas to update our LACRALO bylaws.  One of the topics is the diversity requirement for ALAC representatives.  There should be two elected ALAC representatives; one should be elected from the Latin American region and one from the Caribbean region. 

I know at the beginning of our discussion at the last LACRALO quo; I don’t know if anybody would like to start the conversation.  Perhaps Carlton or Cintra can start the conversation on what were they points, because on last call, it ended with some person’s not understanding each other.  Who would like to speak about this?

Cintra Sooknanan:                   I will speak towards this.  This is Cintra Sooknanan.  I had summarized…

Dev Anand Teelucksingh:       Cintra, you’re going to have to like speak up.

Cintra Sooknanan:                   Okay, I’m sorry.

Dev Anand Teelucksingh:       Yeah, thanks, go ahead.

Cintra Sooknanan:                   Okay, alright, so on the last call with regard to the idea of diversity, the proposal put forward by the Caribbean ALSs, there was mention that there was some ambiguity with regard to why we felt that there was a need to create this requirement and also ambiguity as to why Caribbean ALSs had few represented.  We’ve had a lot of discussion about this, both at LACRALO level and among Caribbean ALSs. 

It seems like we have come to a sort of crossroad, and a decision has to be made one way or the other.  My feeling is this requirement that the Caribbean has equal independent voice in giving its perspectives and being represented in LACRALO, and in my opinion, there are several benefits that can be derived from this proposal.  I will just list a few of them. 

First of all, in respect of what I just said, the Caribbean perspective will have a defined place in LACRALO, as well as ALAC.  Secondly, Caribbean ALSs will have a representative to directly lead with and also hold accountable if their views are not appropriately represented.  Thirdly, Caribbean ALSs, both present and future, will recognize a mechanism to move up the ladder, a mechanism for progression in LACRALO and also ALAC.  Fourthly, engagement in understanding of Caribbean ALSs will increase firstly. 

The Caribbean will start feeling as an equal partner in LACRALO which clearly is not the case at this point.  Sixth, documentation output and group record representation by LACRALO will improve, simply because there will be an increase in the number of Native English speakers and seventh, LACRALO promotion and events will increase because we will have a greater pool of membership, which is really the ultimate aim of LACRALO. 

These are just a few points that I wanted to raise, just to put out there for the rest of the group for discussion, but I am sure there are many more that Dev and Carlton, they wish to add.  That’s my contribution at this point.  Thank you Dev.

Dev Anand Teelucksingh:       This is Dev Anand, thank you Cintra.  I see Jose Arce has raised his hand.  Jose Arce, please go ahead.

Jose Arce:                               Okay thank you, this is Jose Arce speaking for the record.  Thank you Cintra for your summary.  Since this is a topic that we have been already discussing, sometimes it’s a bit confusing.  I would like to know, what is the specific solution, very briefly, four or five words for this situation.  This is a very punctual, clear question.  What is the solution that you propose?  Thank you.

Dev Anand Teelucksingh:       Thank you Jose. Cintra or Carlton, do you wish to speak to this?

Cintra Sooknanan:                   I will speak Dev.  This is Cintra Sooknanan.  There has been a proposal put forward by Caribbean ALSs, which was born I would say a little bit over a year ago, that there was a need to re-solidify and participate to a greater extent, and the only way this could be done is if we have an equal say.  The best way that that should happen would be through one representative on the ALAC coming from the Caribbean sub-region of LACRALO.  I do not, in my opinion, see that there may be any way that it can be done otherwise. 

I don’t know if, perhaps, Jose can make a suggestion as to another way that he can see us as being Caribbean ALSs directly choosing an ALAC representative who’s comfortable in understanding our intentions for a vote or to represent our needs in a particular way.  It’s proving too difficult, not only because of language but also because of the way we think, our culture, and all those other factors.  In my mind, this is the best way, as well as the most palatable way for the Caribbean ALSs.  Thank you.

Dev Anand Teelucksingh:       Thank you Cintra.  This is Dev Anand.  I see Sergio and Jose have raised their hands.  Sergio, please go ahead.

Sergio Salinas Porto:               Okay, this is Sergio Salinas Porto speaking.  I would like to answer Cintra. 

Jose Arce:                               This is Jose Arce speaking for the record.  Thanks Cintra for your answer.  You are being focused on one proposal which is always the same.  As the President of the chair of the regent, I don’t think this is the solution, the fact that every region should have one fixed representative.  I don’t think that is the solution.  I am willing to discuss with you and look for other solutions.  I think this a task we must accomplish together and I think we can do it before the end of the year, at least being able to have two or three solutions for the proposal.  Thank you.

Dev Anand Teelucksingh:       Okay, thank you, this is Dev Anand.  Thank you Jose.  I see that Sergio has put down his hand.  I see Cintra has put her hand up, so Cintra please go ahead.

Cintra Sooknanan:                   Thank you Dev Anand.  I do have a bit of background noise in case you can’t hear me clearly.  I would like to respectfully ask Jose why he doesn’t believe that this is the solution, and I would like to also ask him the two or three proposals that he says he would like to see, if he can perhaps address a few of those proposals, because this is a problem that affects Caribbean ALSs and if we can’t find a solution then I would love him to help us find one, if that’s the case, that is palatable to Caribbean ALSs.  Thank you.

Dev Anand Teelucksingh:       Thank you Cintra.  This is Dev Anand.  Sergio, I see your hand is now up again.  Very well, Sergio, please go ahead.

Sergio Salinas Porto:               Good evening to all of you.  This is Sergio Salinas Porto speaking.  I would like to say the following.  I have already listened to my colleagues of the Caribbean region.  The vision of some of us in LACRALO about this issue has to do with understanding that there shouldn’t be any country or group of countries without a member in LACRALO.  LACRALO and its representatives should be elected by the will of the ALSs.  So, we cannot have a fixed ALAC representative for this.  The region should elect the representative, without taking into account the economic interests of the practicing vote or the distribution of the ALSs. 

We have different agreements like the America Sur, the Inglan Pact; we have one regent, two representatives for each region, and they have been elected by the ALSs.  I don’t know which other solution you can offer.  I cannot think of any solution right now for those colleagues who do not feel they are being represented.  The ALAC members up to now have done their best for the Caribbean and the natives of Inglan Pact and America Sur be represented.

Dev Anand Teelucksingh:       Okay, is that it?  This is Dev.  Okay thank you Sergio.  Jose Arce, I see your hand is raised.  Please go ahead.  And I see Cintra after.

Jose Arce:                               Okay, thank you very much.  This is Jose Arce speaking.  I would like to ask a remark to Sergio’s comment and a question for Cintra.  I think, in fact, one day I sent an email to the list informing you that CALAC was created; this is the Latin American and Caribbean Estate Community.  And I asked in that email, where do we want LACRALO to go to?  This is something independent.  Do we want LACRALO to be totally independent from our socioeconomic situation or do we want it to be aligned with it?  So I believe that Latin America and the Caribbean is just one region that has democratic systems for electing their representatives, and I said this in the past call conference. 

I think Carlton’s idea is very good, but if you asked me if we have any other alternatives, so as to change representatives, how can we modify bylaws in order to change the election of the representatives in our region?  I think we have to keep on thinking of other alternatives, and I think that if we discuss it together, we can do kind of brainstorming and try to find a way out or a solution.  But I don’t think the two chairs, the two officiates in the ALAC for the Caribbean would be to be against the interest of many other countries that might be requesting the same, but they have been supporting only one regent, the Latin American regent.  Thank you.

Dev Anand Teelucksingh:       Thank you Jose.  I see Cintra and Carlton have put their hands up.  Carlton, do you want to speak to us first?

Carlton Samuels:                     Yes, let me just say something.  Are you hearing me?

Dev Anand Teelucksingh:       Yes, I’m hearing you Carlton.  Please go ahead.

Carlton Samuels:                     Okay, this is Carlton Samuels for the record.  It’s interesting when you hear the thoughts from my friends from America Sur, and maybe the translation is wrong, the interpretation, but according to the interpreter, she said Jose Arce said there’s only one region, Latin America region.  You see how easy it is, and I’m presuming the interpreter heard and reported exactly what was said, that is just one small indication, the way the mind works.  It perceives the speech and just now, you notice how easy for the Caribbean to be an afterthought.  That is not happenstance; that happens every time. 

Veronica:                                 Excuse me Carlton, this is Veronica the interpreter speaking.  Carlton, can you hear me?

Carlton Samuels:                     Yes, I’m hearing you.

Veronica:                                 Hello Carlton, can you please speak a bit louder because I don’t hear you well.

Carlton Samuels:                     Okay.

Veronica:                                 Thank you. 

Carlton Samuels:                     I was making the point that if the interpretation is accurate; Jose Arce himself declared one region and he said it was the Latin American region.  This is instructive, because the way the mind works, perceives what the mouth says.  I make that point to show how easy it is, how absolutely easy it is to relegate the Caribbean to nonexistence as part of the region.  That’s the first thing.  In other words, the state of mind is betrayed by what was said. 

Let me repeat that; the state of mind betrays, what was said betrays the state of mind.  In that statement, it was an emphatic statement.  “There is only one region, Latin America.”  Nothing said about the Caribbean.  I am sorry.  Let me go on to the next step.  Since I probably had more to do with this than anybody else on this call, regardless of what you say, the facts are not controversial.

Veronica:                                 Carlton Samuels, this is Veronica Speaking.  I am not hearing you well.  Can you please speak louder?  Because your voice…

Carlton Samuels:                     I’m actually shouting.  I’m not sure what the hell I can do else.  I am shouting.

Veronica:                                 Okay, I’m really sorry, but your voice…

Carlton Samuels:                     I’m not sure what else I can do, Veronica, for you.  I’m actually shouting.

Veronica:                                 Okay, thank you.

Carlton Samuels:                     Let me go on to say, there is no Latin American and the Caribbean organization to date that has worked for Latin America and the Caribbean.  Let me give you another example.  Just last week, I was in Barbados for a meeting of the Economic Commission for Latin America and the Caribbean.  The presenter was alleging to represent the Caribbean and not one time in this presentation he mentioned the Caribbean, even though he was actually situated in the Caribbean during the presentation. 

That is a UN agency, a United Nation agency that is based in the Caribbean, supposed to be looking after Caribbean interests.  At this meeting, to deal with the information society and knowledge management, the presenter not once in this presentation, had anything to say about the Caribbean.  Everybody noticed, not just me. 

Here is the problem.  We had an experiment.  It was a noble experiment.  The attempt was made to go against history.  We have failed.  There is no sense continuing this, firstly.  Let me say the final thing.  It is very instructive that my friends from the south disagrees with the proposal, but they themselves do not have a solution that moves the conversation any further.  You object to the proposal, but you do not have a counterproposal. 

That is instructive, because if you object to my proposal and you do not have a fixed position in your head, then what I would expect for you to do is make a counterproposal, not just repeat the status quo.  That is not helpful.  I am sure my friends who, most of you are lawyers, understand that that is not the basis for continuing a conversation.  I have to go, so I will leave with that.  Thank you all.

Dev Anand Teelucksingh:       Thank you Carlton.  Well I see Cintra.  Please Cintra, go ahead and thank you Carlton.  Carlton has to leave.

Cintra Sooknanan:                   Thank you Dev.  This is Cintra.  I want to say openly to this call as a whole that Jose and I agree on many things and I do consider him a very good friend, but when he says in this forum that this is an issue just by one or two countries, I am extremely insulted by that.  The Caribbean is 16, 17 countries in Latin America.  We are not a few countries trying to regain some power or anything like that.  We are equal partners here and we need to be treated like that.  That is the point that I don’t think is really coming across.  Just because we don’t have the representation right at this point, doesn’t mean that we falter.  We are still representative and we are still countries that need to be represented in LACRALO.  Thank you.

Dev Anand Teelucksingh:       Thank you Cintra.  Antonio Medina and then Jose actually.  Antonio Medina, please go ahead.

Jose Arce:                               This is Jose Arce speaking.  I’m going to answer Cintra.  Cintra, I will also answer Carlton Samuels position. I feel that the Caribbean is attacking the Latin American region and this is not good to feel.  This is a feeling that I didn’t think would come to my head.  When the Caribbean region proposes a fixed ALAC, and I am answering to Carlton Samuels remark, because he knows about proposals and counterproposals, this is the position of the Caribbean regent, but I personally will negotiate positions, because these will leave us nowhere. 

Second point, Cintra, I think you didn’t understand that I had said before.  I am listening to the voices of two Caribbean ALSs and when I say a few or, I don’t remember the exact words I said before, but when I talk about the few ALSs or countries, I was referring to these, and I think that if you are considering this in a disrespectful way, it means that something wrong and worrying is happening, because you are being defensive.  I don’t know why you are taking this position.  I think we have proved, at least the Latin American people, that we have always collaborated with a Caribbean regent. 

The Caribbean region has always been represented.  The Caribbean people have proposed the election system for the representatives, so you are the makers and the owners of these results.  If you want to change this with a proposal that goes against the whole regent, this is not the solution, and I think that this won’t be solved by attacking each word of a member of the Latin American regent. 

And I say sorry for saying this in this instance, because I thought that after so many discussions that we had had with Dev, I think Dev you know me very well, I always spoke from the bottom of my heart, and you know that I want the best for the regent.  So I don’t feel the Caribbean region is not being represented.  Since LACRALO was created, the Caribbean region, they were having people from the Caribbean region in different decisions.  I am the Chair of the regent, and I won’t allow the fact of having one fixed ALAC from the Caribbean region, because this goes against the region and an ALAC is an input for the other countries that have the same right to be elected and be represented, as it was when the LACRALO was created. 

So if we have a solution for all this, I think we have look at the solution all together, and this is not by misunderstanding the words that are coming out from the mouth of the Chair of the regent.  It is not just the fact of making a proposal that goes against the region, but we have to collaborate all together.  The Caribbean region is not collaborating.  They’re just having a fixed decision, so I think we are getting nowhere.  We are not going to get a positive response.  I am going to ask all the ALSs, not only the ALSs from the Caribbean to talk together; let’s create, if you want, in a specific working group, so that we can discuss, and I think we can discuss this perhaps in an English channel just to avoid misunderstandings. 

But the solution is not the solution being posed by the Caribbean regent.  Cintra, I feel sorry for what you said.  I didn’t expect you to understand the words of your colleagues in the way you did.  Carlton, I also feel very sad about Carlton’s words, because we do not have to negotiate this decision.  This decision has nothing to do with negotiations.  We have to sit and discuss about collaboration, so I invite all of you, the Caribbean people, to come and discuss seriously.  We don’t have to negotiate, because these decisions are not negotiable decisions.  I am going to defend that system.  Thank you.

Dev Anand Teelucksingh:       This is Dev.  Thanks Jose.  Roosevelt, thank you for joining the call.  Do you wish to say something?  Roosevelt?  Okay well, ah, thank you.  It looks like Roosevelt got disconnected.  Dev Anand, sorry, Roosevelt apparently got disconnected.  I hope that a staff can redial?  I think he does really want to say something to Jose Arce. 

Cintra Sooknanan:                   May I speak in the interim please?  This is Cintra.

Dev Anand Teelucksingh:       Yes, okay.  While Roosevelt is dialing back in, Cintra please respond.  Thank you, go ahead.

Cintra Sooknanan:                   Thank you Dev Anand.  I’m hearing a few voices from the Latin American, and I would like to hear more voices.  Jose makes some very seething remarks, and it’s a bit scary coming from the President of LACRALO.  It rings too closely to dictatorship at times, and Jose, please forgive me, but that is just the way the words are coming across through interpretation.  It just feels like we are just a child being prodded along by an uncaring parent, at this point in time. 

I know you want to engage this as a working group, but at this point in time, I cannot commit and I don’t know how many Caribbean ALS representatives that will commit to this, because as far as all our work, all our talk, all our proposals have come up to this point, everything is just being swept under the carpet.  I can’t guarantee that this is going to be a successful endeavor at all.  Thank you.

Dev Anand Teelucksingh:       Thank you Cintra.  This is Dev Anand.  Let me just try to respond as well.  Ah, Roosevelt, you’re back on the call?  Since Roosevelt is back on the call, Roosevelt please go ahead.

Roosevelt:                               I think that symbolism ought to prevail, and I feel strongly that if I take a position, nobody should make me feel guilty about the position that I feel.  I heard that the Caribbean is attacking Latin America.  I heard that the Caribbean is not collaborating.  And I’m also hearing that this thing is set in stone. I don’t believe you. We are definitely not collaborating.  If you take a cat and you try to corner a cat, the cat will jump back.

Dev Anand Teelucksingh:       Roosevelt, this is Dev, you’re going to have to speak a little bit slower.

Veronica:                                 No, Roosevelt’s audio is not clearly audible.  We hear an echo on the line.

Roosevelt:                               I’m not sure why you are hearing an echo.

Veronica:                                 His voice is just very faint, so we cannot get what he is saying, therefore we cannot translate what he is saying.  Thank you.

Roosevelt:                               Is that any better?

Dev Anand Teelucksingh:       Yes, Roosevelt, this is Dev.  Please continue.

Roosevelt:                               I feel very insulted by those three statements, because really and truly, I was beginning to say, if you take a cat or a dog and you back it against a corner, it will come out fighting.  We seem to be attacking because nobody is listening.  It suits Latin America fine to go along with the arrangement because we’re not getting all the representation, and we are supposed to say in Latin, and not only that…

Veronica:                                 Dev, this is Veronica again.  The speaker’s audio is not clear enough, so we cannot translate.

Roosevelt:                               Well, I don’t know what to do.  Maybe I should type it in or something.

Dev Anand Teelucksingh:       This is Dev Anand.  Roosevelt, maybe if you can do that?  Roosevelt, while you type that, let me just try to say a few words.  This is Dev Anand here.  I’m listening to this and the thing is, I have to say I’m a little bit disappointed by hearing some of the talk from Jose and so forth, because this conversation has been happening, has been trying to happen I should say, for the past year. 

There were discussions in Cartagena, and the LACRALO bylaw working group; it’s already formed, and again there’s not need to create a new working group for this.  There’s one already.  In any case, this is a dialogue, I think, for all of us.  I think what seems to be suggested coming from what Jose, what you’re saying, and what Sergio’s saying, is if to say we’ll just keep the status quo as is and I do think that, in effect, is ignoring the issue.  Perhaps, and again to me, there’s several things.

One, we are supposed to be ALS representatives from Latin America and, and that’s the important one and the Caribbean.  Historically, and I mean, we can go back to, we can look back at all of the elections for representation, and it seems to be gotten more divided, it appears.  Whenever there’s a representative from the Caribbean that goes for a position, it seems to get very little support from Latin America.  And given that numerically, there are more ALSs from Latin America, this comes off, I think in my mind, as I will say, for me, and I have to say I’ve been the Secretariat since 2009; it seems to be a bit, I do feel a sense of frustration and a little bit of despair at this. 

All I think, what the proposal that has been made, I think is equality.  Alternate the ALAC representatives so that one person, when the next ALAC representative election comes, and it’s going to happen yearly, because the ALAC terms are two years each, I think all that’s being said is not a special position or anything like that, it is just for equality.  That when the next ALAC representation election comes along, it should be from the Caribbean.  The next year, it should be from the Latin American region.  I see Jose wants to say something.  Okay, Jose, please go ahead.

Antonio Medina Gomez:        I raised my hand because I wanted to speak before Antonio Medina Gomez, but I think, I am very interested in Jose and Antonio’s opinion, and I wanted to give him the possibility of speaking.  I am Jose, Antonio Medina, for the record, now speaking.  When I heard Jose Arce talking, I realized that he has a very clear mind on the situation of the regent and how we have been working.  I agree with him, as many of us might agree, that Latin America and the Caribbean is just one regent, and we must keep on working to keep the situation and strengthen the situation, and we have many options for the future.  We must explore these options so as to be able to solve the questions of some of the LACRALO members and we have to strengthen the presence of the regent in the international sphere of the ICAN community.

Dev Anand Teelucksingh:       Thank you Antonio.  The thing is though, this is Dev Anand, here.

Jose Arce:                               Jose Arce speaking.

Dev Anand Teelucksingh:       Okay, Jose Arce, go ahead. 

Jose Arce:                               Thank you Antonio for your remarks.  It’s a pity that not many people are participating today in this discussion.  I would like to have more people participating, but I would like to say that we are discussing about equity representation, so I believe in equity, but this is unequity among all colleagues.  If we don’t have this equality among us, then we won’t be able to solve the problem. 

I repeat, we have a representation system to elect representatives representing this regent, so if there is any way of changing all this, I would say that we should propose another way of electing representatives.  In the meantime, we might be looking for other solutions.  I don’t see background of antecedents of this situation in any other regent of ICAN, so I am open to the discussion, and during the following days, of course, other proposals will come out.

Dev Anand Teelucksingh:       This is Dev Anand here.  Just a reminder, Jose, at the very beginning, there was this discussion regarding ALAC representation.  First of all, ALAC representation is supposed to be diverse.  I think that’s the intention here; that’s why we have in all of the regions, there’s a diversity requirement for the ALAC representatives, that they cannot be from the same country, for example.  They cannot be from the same at-large structure, and that is coming to all LACRALO.  Now, what is happening here is that, I don’t know, Jose you say equality, and I think I can speak for the Caribbean, we don’t see it as being equitable in the representation. 

Again, to me, what is being asked is primarily want for equality.  For example, well I’m not sure if I really want to continue with this, because I’m also looking at the time.  It’s also now nine past the hour.  By all means, if you want to continue the dialogue, but to me, again, the dialogue doesn’t…Jose, Cintra talked about several reasons why this is requested.  Maybe the thing is, perhaps you need to formally respond to those questions or to those points.  So, I don’t know if anybody else wants to say anything on this matter.  I know Carlton has left the call.  I’m just very disappointed by this, by the words I’m hearing.  That’s all.  Does anybody wish to say anything?

Antonio Medina Gomez:        This is Antonio Medina speaking.

Dev Anand Teelucksingh:       Okay, Antonio, please go ahead.

Antonio Medina Gomez:        Okay, this is Antonio Medina for the record.  I am paying attention to what Dev is saying, and I don’t agree with him.  You are talking about equality and this is something that is not being heard.  So thanks to this system, Dev has been holding positions during many periods in our region.  So now he’s saying or he is stating that something that does not agree with the reality, which do not align with the reality.  I think we have a democratic system.  I think we have an open participation. 

We have inequitable representation for all the members.  If you review the system, ICAN is a multistate organization, and we will have the right to participate, so I don’t see why, and after so many months of work, we have this, I will have a proposal which is not consistent with the reality of the regent.  I think we have to find certain points of agreement for LACRALO to be a highlighted regent within the framework of the ICAN, within the international framework.

Dev Anand Teelucksingh:       Thank you Antonio.  I see Cintra.

Cintra Sooknanan:                   I would love to respond to Antonio.  This is Cintra Sooknanan.  Antonio, I am sorry if you didn’t understand, but Dev was trying to be diplomatic when he made his last statement.  We do not want to name instances where Caribbean ALS representatives did not bother to run for elections, because we thought the better thing to do was to cede to Latin America so that maybe we might have a chance the next time around.  Okay?  We didn’t want to say that.  We didn’t want to name names.  But now that you have mentioned that Dev is in the position, yes he is, and you know why?  Because he does a very good job.  And anybody else who would like to take his position and do as well as he is doing, kudos to them, but I don’t see it happening. 

For this discussion to continue, I’m really at a point where I am absolutely disgusting, and I do not wish to continue unless we are speaking about real and tangible things that can lead to a solution.  I don’t want any more finger-pointing.  I don’t want us to say, “How can this one speak towards this?”  We do not look at these things on an individualistic level.  It is Caribbean ALSs; we are talking for each other.  Dev is not speaking in this capacity of Secretariat; he is speaking in his capacity as a representative of a Caribbean ALS, and whoever does not recognize that by now, then something is seriously wrong in this discussion and we are all wasting our time.  Thank you.

Dev Anand Teelucksingh:       Okay, thank you Cintra.  Alright, I do see two person that raised their hand.  Okay, let’s have these final two speakers and then let’s move on to other aspects in the agenda, okay?  I saw Jose Arce and then Roosevelt.  Jose, please continue, then Roosevelt, and then we’ll close out the discussion on this.

Jose Arce:                               Okay, this is Jose Arce speaking for the record.  Two points I would like to make.  First, I see some comments about Roosevelt, which are totally wrong.  I only saw you participating in two teleconferences.  Your comments are out of place, so I don’t agree with your words.  I don’t agree with your comments about my other comments as a Chair, so I’m not going to let you say this.  So please, I am asking you to stop participating, or I will ask you to participate more before making or giving your opinions, and if you want a solution, well this is simple.  We have to make a motion if you want a fixed representative.  If the motion is voted and approved, then that proposal is going to be passed for a vote and then we will decide.  Thank you.

Dev Anand Teelucksingh:       Thanks Jose.  Roosevelt, do you want to respond?

Roosevelt:                               I really don’t know what to say.  In one instance, somebody is talking about democracy.  Democracy is about participation.  And then in another instance, you are saying to me, because we have not been participating, does not mean that I have not been seeing problems and that I am not participating as much as I can.  We do not have the man power or human resources for us to really participate and we are doing this on a very voluntary basis.  For someone to come and tell me that I have no experience and I don’t know nothing and I should not be participating, this is disgraceful.  I have to say that this is disgraceful. 

Although you say there is nothing to disagree about, we have our view on LACRALO representation, and we hardly participate because it won’t take us anywhere.  And if it’s not taking us anywhere, it don’t make no sense.  And then to tell me that he’s talking about democracy; every time we put out a candidate we are outnumbered, and you’re telling me this is a democracy?  No no no, dictatorship.  This is a dictatorship, not democracy.  And on one side, people coming to tell us what we have to do an…

Veronica:                                 Dev, this is Veronica the interpreter speaking.  Roosevelt’s audio is not audible.  We hear an echo, so we cannot interpret what he is saying.  I’m really sorry for this.

Roosevelt:                               That is okay, right, because I still don’t feel when I say it, because you know, we have been ignored not just within the circle of civil society for many years.  I will never forget on Carlton, who was looking for the Caribbean alliance in South America, and was told that he was in the Caribbean.  Then he was looking for the Caribbean and was told, Latin American is not the Caribbean, it is Latin America and the Caribbean.  And if somebody goes to South America, and says, “Oh, we are Latin American and Caribbean…”

Veronica:                                 Dev, this is Veronica the interpreter speaking and I am interpreting Jose Arce’s words.  He says it makes no sense to have Roosevelt speaking because he’s not getting the interpretation.

Dev Anand Teelucksingh:       Okay Roosevelt, unfortunately Roosevelt…

Antonio Medina Gomez:        Maybe Dev, you will just pass on an idea of what I’m saying, because this has gone beyond and tonight is showing that are more like slaves.  We are enslaved and we are under the rule of Latin America.  I am saying that that is wrong and that is a wrong approach.  That is not for anything we are doing or stand for; I do not see that there should be any big objection to what we are saying, because what we are saying is about the reality.  You don’t have to agree with what we are saying; we are living a reality.  The fact that we are living a reality is not a matter of opinion.

Dev Anand Teelucksingh:       Okay, Roosevelt, what we have to do, this is Dev Anand here.  Unfortunately Roosevelt, because you have a bad connection, I don’t think the interpretation got through unfortunately, but I think what we have to do is ensure that the transcript is produced, and then perhaps your words could then be heard in the transcript and hopefully lead to a better understanding.  Juan, I am going to have to ask, I know you raised your hand, but I do think I want to move on to the other items.

Veronica:                                 Dev, this is Veronica speaking.  Jose also wants to make a comment.

Dev Anand Teelucksingh:       Okay, this is Dev, I just want to just move on to the other items on the agenda.

Veronica:                                 Dev, this is Veronica speaking.  Jose Arce wants to make a comment.

Dev Anand Teelucksingh:       Very well.  Jose, go ahead.

Cintra Sooknanan:                   Do you need me on this call?

Dev Anand Teelucksingh:       You can just stay on for the next two or three, few more minutes.  Jose, please go ahead.

Jose Arce:                               This is Jose Arce speaking for the record.  I would like to say to Cintra that this is, what has happened in the chat room is a total lack of respect.  I thought that we were dealing with other people, and I want to answer Roosevelt’s comments.  I have been participating in LACRALO and I respect his participation and his work.  But one thing is to be present and working; if he is working in other ICAN it is okay, but when it comes to LACRALO, let’s look for the files, records, and so on, and I assure that I have not seen his participation at all.  Roosevelt, our participation here is a volunteer participation, so I invite you to discuss but not with offensive words.  I have to leave this call.  Goodnight to all of you.  Goodbye.

Dev Anand Teelucksingh:       Very well, thank you Jose.  Now I really do want to just go over some of the text from the other items, because we spent quite a bit of time, alright?  So, the geographic regions review; I will post the links to a Google doc and let’s try to put together some of the discussions we’ve been having on this call and we didn’t unfortunately have a chance to discuss tonight.  I’m not going to have more discussion on this issue except to remind that the deadline for comments on this geographic regions review is on December the 19th, okay?  Well, I think we have to look at getting a document ready, submitted by LACRALO, by the 12 of December, because if you have to submit it to ALAC for voting and so forth, I think they need at least a week.  Okay?

Secondly, does anybody have any quick comments on that or can I go ahead to the other agenda items?  Very well, hearing nothing.  There is discussion of possible LACRALO events in Costa Rica.  The text of the document was sent to ALAC and I also included a budget item.  I’ll just put the link here.  It included the rationale for why we are asking for the events in Costa Rica and also for the full budget.  Let me ask the question then, should I then pull us off the call because if people are going to step off, it doesn’t make sense for me to just repeat it. 

Cintra Sooknanan:                   Nobody is in the frame of mind to speak, Dev.  I am not.  I don’t know about anybody else, but I don’t think people are in any frame of mind to speak properly right now.

Dev Anand Teelucksingh:       Alright.  Okay, just to confirm, from the Spanish channel, is that okay?  I propose to just end the call, since several people are planning to leave the call.  Or shall I continue?

Alberto Soto:                          This is Alberto Soto speaking.  I have just been connected so I cannot give my opinion, so please, any other Spanish speaker can perhaps say something about this.

Dev Anand Teelucksingh:       Very well. 

Sergio Salinas Porto:               This is Sergio Salinas Porto speaking.

Dev Anand Teelucksingh:       Thank you Sergio, go ahead.

Sergio Salinas Porto:               This is Sergio speaking.  I have to say that I must leave the call.  I think this has been a very long call.  I have to leave the call because I am not feeling well, and I am very sorry for not being able to stay until the end of the call.  Perhaps my colleagues would like to remain.  I would like to say that I feel sorry for having had such a long discussion about the issue we have discussed before, but I give now the word to my colleagues in the Spanish channel if they can stay. 

Dev Anand Teelucksingh:       Very well.  This is Dev.  Thank you Sergio, hope you feel better.  Let me just then ask again.  The proposal is to end the call now.  If there’s anybody who wants this call to continue, then please say so now.  Otherwise, I will just end the call because it doesn’t make sense for me to just say something, be talking to myself.  To answer the question, Roosevelt, yes there was other business regarding the showcase discussion, but again, there is hardly anybody to have that discussion with.  I only have like 10 minutes before the end of the call anyway.  Marcello, please go ahead?

Marcello:                                 This is Marcello speaking. I think it would be good to continue on another day, because this call has been very long.  I would like to ask Roosevelt, or to say to Roosevelt, or ask him if we have evaluated the possibility of having him ICAN in Jamaica.

Dev Anand Teelucksingh:       Thank you Marcello.  I’m not sure if I understood the second part of your question.  Roosevelt, I think, is responding to your question in the chat.  Very quickly clarify it, and I’ll then thereby end the call.  I didn’t understand, you said something about Jamaica, and I didn’t understand that.

Marcello:                                 Yes.  Are you considering the islands as part of the Caribbean or are you considering the continental part?  This is Barbados, Jamaica, Trinidad & Tobago. 

Dev Anand Teelucksingh:       Okay, I think I do understand what she’s saying.  Okay, this is Dev Anand.  To answer that question Marcello, there’s about 17 territories, islands in the Caribbean and territories that are considered part of the Caribbean region.  It is mostly the islands in the Caribbean region, but also includes like the country of Guyana, which is considered part of the Caribbean.  And Roosevelt is saying, there are 15 countries.  So I hope that answers the question.  There was a spreadsheet I showed, the breakdown of the regions, what countries are from Latin America, what countries are from the Caribbean region.  I could post that link again to you after the call.  Okay, and I hope that answers that question. 

Okay, well in that case, I would like to end the call then.  Thank you all very much.  Regarding the next LACRALO monthly call, I am thinking next week Thursday, and I’ll send out a doodle with the help of staff for the timing of that call next week, Thursday, because having the next LACRALO call on the 22nd might be just a little too close to Christmas.  My recommendation would be to have the call on December 15th.  Okay, alright, therefore with that, I would like to close the call.  Thank you for attending and goodbye for now.  Thank you all, and thank you Veronica for your time on this call.  I know it was very difficult to be on this call for nearly 90 minutes, so thank you very very much.

Veronica:                                 Thanks everyone.

Cintra Sooknanan:                   Okay thanks Dev, goodbye to all of you.

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