When: Wednesday, 23 January 2013. GMT Standard Time. 19:00 UTC / This is a 120 Minute Call.
11:00 PST, 14:00 EST, 19:00 London, 20:00 CET
Adobe Connect Link: http://icann.adobeconnect.com/r1onj8cflqp/
http://audio.icann.org/gnso/gnso-igo-ingo-20130123-en.mp3
On page: http://gnso.icann.org/calendar/#jan
The recordings and transcriptions of the calls are posted on the GNSO Master Calendar page:
http://gnso.icann.org/calendar/
Attendees:
Lanre Ajayi - Nominating Committee Appointee
Iliya Bazlyankov – RrSG
Alain Berranger - NPOC
Jim Bikoff – IPC/IOC
Avri Doria – NCSG
Elizabeth Finberg - RySG
Chuck Gomes - RySG
Alan Greenberg - ALAC
Catherine Gribbin - Red Cross
Robin Gross - NCSG
Stephane Hankins - NCSG
David Heasley - IPC/IOC
Wolfgang Kleinwaechter - NCSG
Evan Lebovitch - ALAC
David Maher - RySG
Kiran Malancharuvil - IPC/IOC
Osvaldo Novoa - Red Cross
Christopher Rassi -
Thomas Rickert – NCA –Working group chair
Greg Shatan - IPC
Ken Stubbs - RySG
Claudia MacMaster Tamarit - ISO
Mary Wong - NCUC
Apology :
Paul Diaz – RySG
ICANN Staff:
Brian Peck
Berry Cobb
Julia Charvolen
Proposed Agenda – IGO-INGO WG Meeting – 23 JAN 2013 @ 19:00 UTC (120 Min):
1. Roll Call / SOI Update
2. Status of General Council Request
3. Status of SG/C & SO/AC Input Request
4. Review of Shortlist / Prioritization per Work Package
5. Review IGO-INGO Work Plan
6. Next steps & confirm next meeting
Action Items
1. None
Adobe Chat Transcript:
Berry Cobb:Welcome to the 23 JAN 2013 IGO-INGO Conference Call.
Kiran Malancharuvil/Jim Bikoff (IOC):David Heasley is also on the call.
Julia Charvolen:thank you I will note that
Osvaldo Novoa:Hello all, sorry I'm late
Berry Cobb:David Maher should be joining the call shortly.
Berry Cobb:Osvaldo, you will be up next to talk to the ISP input statement.
Osvaldo Novoa:I'm trying to connect by phone, I'm waiting on line
Evan Leibovitch:hello all
Osvaldo Novoa:I'm on line now
Mary Wong:Tee hee, Thomas said "technical glitch" :)
Chuck Gomes:Well said Avri
David Mahe:I am trying to call in using Skype but can't connect.
Claudia MacMaster Tamarit:Did Thomas just go offline?
Thomas Rickert:I am still there!
Claudia MacMaster Tamarit:Sorry, I was just kicked off the call.
Greg Shatan:Me too.
Claudia MacMaster Tamarit:Is there something wrong with the conference calling center? Still on hold.
Alan Greenberg:Perhaps hang up and try again
Claudia MacMaster Tamarit:just got back!
David Mahe:I'm now connected
Claudia MacMaster Tamarit:Agree with Avri on multiple factors
Alan Greenberg:@Avri. Well said.
Evan Leibovitch:+1 Alan and Avri
Alan Greenberg:Jim, could you put the 17,000 calculation in writing in an e-mail or this chat?
Kiran Malancharuvil/Jim Bikoff (IOC):approx 950 new gTLDs x 2 words x 9 languages
Evan Leibovitch:Greg, nothing in Alan's work, on its own, appears to demonstrate fraud or abuse, in that none of the "squatted" sites appears to be misrepresenting themselves. If there are some specifics you can offer in this regard, pleas do.
Kiran Malancharuvil/Jim Bikoff (IOC):Evan, do you view parked websites with advertisements as "misrepresentative"
Evan Leibovitch:No.
Evan Leibovitch:Unless they claim they are the organization
Evan Leibovitch:"This domain is for sale" is, in fact, a clear sign that the site is NOT representative of the org
Alan Greenberg:I and a lot of others would be delighted to get rid of parked, monetized web sites. But at the moment under curent policy, there is nothing to prohibit them.
Kiran Malancharuvil/Jim Bikoff (IOC):Evan... you don't think they are unfairly and intentionally capitalizing on initial interest confusion
Kiran Malancharuvil/Jim Bikoff (IOC):passing off
Alan Greenberg:On questions to ask, I woul also like to see some measure of "user" use of the web site, but I am not sure exactly how to measure it.
Kiran Malancharuvil/Jim Bikoff (IOC):or other behaviour prohibited by law?
Evan Leibovitch:If they don't represent themselves as being the org they are not passing off, IMO
Mary Wong:As a fellow member of the Admissions team, I agree with Avri's distinction between Quals & Adm.
Kiran Malancharuvil/Jim Bikoff (IOC):Interesting Evan.
Kiran Malancharuvil/Jim Bikoff (IOC):Thanks for clarifying your position.
Avri Doria:I also beleive we should give free electricty to public interst organzations.
Greg Shatan:Initial interest confusion implies that the user has visited the parked and monetized site because they thought they were going to the "real" site. I don't see how initial interest confusion is not implicated.
Avri Doria:And they should go rent free.
Evan Leibovitch:Greg: They were *lookin* for the real site. Landing at a squatted siite just meant that they landed at the wrong place, not that they were confused.
Kiran Malancharuvil/Jim Bikoff (IOC):initial interest confusion =/= actual confusion Evan
Greg Shatan:We charge rent and electricity to organizations because the providers incur costs in delivering the service or the space. Where is the analogous cost here?
Evan Leibovitch:A park page that does not represent itself as the org is neither passing off not necessarily a source of confusion
Greg Shatan:The confusion may or may not be alleviated when they get there, but they got there because they experienced initial interest confusion.
Evan Leibovitch:It *can* be, but that has to be demonstrated. It is neither implicit nor obvious
Mary Wong:Hasn't initial interest confusion been doubted in some cases/Circuits in the US?
Kiran Malancharuvil/Jim Bikoff (IOC):Evan, why would someone park Olympic.whatever if they weren't attempting to make money on ads from the confusion of internet users?
Alan Greenberg:If there is policy (ICANN or otherwise) preventing monetization, someone is doing a VERY bad job at enforcement. My understand, which might be wrong, is that monetization with no pretence of masquerading at the original entity, is not forbidden. If I am wrong, I would be delighted to understand what the reality is.
Chuck Gomes:Is monetization automactically disallowed in a UDRP case?
Alan Greenberg:Chuck, I thought it was not if there is no attempt at mis-representation. BUt we have many tm laywers on this call...
Alan Greenberg:Lawyers
Kiran Malancharuvil/Jim Bikoff (IOC):You cannot use someone elses And yes, monetization of someone's trademark is automatically disallowed in a UDRP case and court action.
Kiran Malancharuvil/Jim Bikoff (IOC):*someone elses tm in that way
Kiran Malancharuvil/Jim Bikoff (IOC):half my sentence disappeared!
Mary Wong:Definition of "abuse" from the RAPWG 2010 final report: Abuse is an action that:a. Causes actual and substantial harm, or is a material predicate of such harm, andb. Is illegal or illegitimate, or is otherwise considered contrary to the intention and design of a stated legitimate purpose, if such purpose is disclosed.
Osvaldo Novoa:Thomas, I agree with your statement
Berry Cobb:Just to point out from RAPWG, there was no consenus on delination between Use Abuse and Registration Abuse.
Alan Greenberg:Kiran/JIm, to be clear. If I have a domain name that is a typo or exact match that monetizes on the general area of business but do not claim any connection is actionable in a UDRP?
Evan Leibovitch:"troublesome" is in the eye of the beholder
wolfgang:Thanks Mary for the definitjon of abuse. Indeed, not everything is an abuse
Mary Wong:@Berry, yes, that's why I focused on the definition only, which was a consensus position.
Mary Wong:@Greg, I agree - content analysis would be inappropriate.
Kiran Malancharuvil/Jim Bikoff (IOC):@Alan - if you add "..a typo or exact match of a trademark..." then YES
Evan Leibovitch:It is my view that Alan's wording closely reflects the ALAC approach to this issue
Evan Leibovitch:There is substantial skepticism within At-Large of the claimed *public interest* harm asserted in the absense of the blocking measures being advocated by some.
Evan Leibovitch:His request is simply a request to "prove it"/
wolfgang:can somebody call me in again under *49-171-6324889. My battery went down on the other phone.
Alan Greenberg:@KIran/Jim, sso Redcross.biz (I think Redcross in a TM in the US) would be taken down if a UDRP was filed?
Kiran Malancharuvil/Jim Bikoff (IOC):I couldn't possibly speculate on a specific case. I'm not a judge.
Evan Leibovitch:But you're agreeing that itś not obvious.
Kiran Malancharuvil/Jim Bikoff (IOC):No Evan, I'm not agreeing to that at all.
Kiran Malancharuvil/Jim Bikoff (IOC):I'm just being careful not to run afoul of the limitations of my license to practice law, by not offering advice on the outcome of a specific case.
Kiran Malancharuvil/Jim Bikoff (IOC):I would suggest that you review past UDRP cases and decisions to answer your questions.
Alan Greenberg:Understood. But then perhaps the " if you add "..a typo or exact match of a trademark..." then YES" was a bit of overkill.
Kiran Malancharuvil/Jim Bikoff (IOC):nope. because it has to be a trademark
Kiran Malancharuvil/Jim Bikoff (IOC):you said a typo or exact match, but didn't say trademark
Evan Leibovitch:what is the trademark is in a dictionary word such as "apple" or "tide" or "shell"?
Kiran Malancharuvil/Jim Bikoff (IOC):Again, I would refer you to past UDRP cases for guidance on specific issues rather than broad questions about causes of action.
Alan Greenberg:OK, I will try to re-phrase. If a site TRADEMARK.biz is a monetized site that clearly is pointing to subjects related to the trademark's business, but clearly is not claiming to be that orgaization, it would likely win a UDRP?
Alan Greenberg:@Stephane, you have a lot of sympathy for the "strings-contained-in" scenario, but unfortunately (for you) that this is not what we are currently charged with.
Greg Shatan:I don't think there is anything in the resolution that limits our considerations to exact matches.
Kiran Malancharuvil/Jim Bikoff (IOC):Alan, IN GENERAL... the trademark owner would win the UDRP in that case.
Greg Shatan:What list?
Avri Doria:Alan, the data we are looking for is actaully part of the solution.
Alan Greenberg:Avri, it may help form the solution, but I would like to look at it and then decide what numbers are to be used.
Claudia MacMaster Tamarit:Greg plus 1
Avri Doria:to be clear some are looking for reservations of the type '%sRESERVEDNAME%s'?
Avri Doria:or even '%sRESERVEDNAME%sRESERVEDNAME%s'
Alan Greenberg:@mary "Risky" - a rather mild word for the swamp we will be in if we look at wider than exact match.
Alan Greenberg:Clearing houese is just a LARGE reserved names list...
Mary Wong:@Alan, right - that's why my reasons are more than just based on our charter :)
Chuck Gomes:Let's try to minimize longer statements
Mary Wong:Thanks, Thomas - excellent steering and chairing, as usual.
Chuck Gomes:Thanks Thomas
